I don’t think that having a different opinion on the entirely subjective merits of a movie is grounds for personal insults. 2001 is one of my favorite movies, but just because someone else doesn’t like it, that doesn’t mean they’ve got short attention spans or defective imaginations. It just means they like different stuff than I do.
Besides which, it’d be nice to be able to discuss the merits of a work of art without someone turning it into a pissing match. I’d rather hear Muldoon discuss what he feels are the merits of 2001, and contrast that with what Mr. Sarcasticus feels are its flaws. The later creates an interesting debate. The former just turns the SDMB into another UseNet.
That’s fair enough, and I realized this after I wrote the very statements you quoted (since they were essentially what I protested - the line is thin between defending your beliefs or another individual).
I’m not a film expert, so acting and special effects aren’t my province. But one thing that sets Star Wars apart is that Lucas did go out of his way to create a real environment for the films. Before Star Wars, as has already been pointed out, all SF movies were either shiny-new like Star Trek was (or attempted to be) or post apocalypse, like Planet of the Apes. I believe Lucas referred to it as the ‘used universe’ concept, since he wanted to give the viewer the impression that vehicles etc in the movies had been owned and used by real people in the same way that most of us who own cars own cars that are several years old. In other words, for the first time in SF, it was ok if the landspeeder was a little dusty looking.
Second, John William’s score to ANH tops any other original mainstrean movie score I’ve heard. The only film that even comes close to the original three SW soundtracks is Space Odyssey: 2001, which of course is way better because they used the original Richard Strauss for the opening instead of plagiarising it. Seriously, those of you who think John Williams is omnipotent need to check out, just as an example, Mars Bringer of War from The Planets by Gustav Holst. It’s exactly the same as one of the passages from the opening of ANH. I mean, exactly. Down to the last note. Probably it’s even in the same key. Holst was first by more than half a century.
After defending the old movies, I think criticizing the new ones is appropriate. The acting and FX might be better, but the new ones lack all the conviction and energy that the old ones had. The plots also conflict with things we’ve heard from Lucas and others for the past twenty years in the books serieses. Even hard-core fans now have no idea where Boba Fett is from. (Yes, at one point we did think we knew his original name and what planet he was from. I think it’s in Tales of the Bounty hunters?) Finally, I think the Special Edition sucked most of the life out of ANH. There’s no way even Greedo could aim that badly.
It’s a space fairy tale. It has all the sophistication of a Beginning Reader “Look Mommy I Can Read It Myself” rendition of a Brothers Grimm story.
And also the magic.
By “real” adult science-fiction (even movie science-fiction) standards, umm, yeah – reducing a galaxy-wide conflict to no more major characters than you could count on your fingers (and those not generals or strategists, just incidental action figures) and a couple of small miltary events involving no more than one or two planets?
Could you be a little more specific, please? I’m passing familiar with the Star Wars soundtrack, and I could probably hum the entirety of The Planets from memory, and I can’t think of any passage from the former that could be mistaken for the latter. Similar in tone, sure, but one can hardly copyright a tone.
And I’ll concede that 2001 had very good effects, but not having seen either movie recently, I’ll decline to say which one is better. But in any event, the effects in Star Wars are still in the upper eschelon of movie special effects, and better than those in the prequels or Special Bastardizations.
Perhaps he’s confusing the Star Wars main theme with the theme from the movie “King’s Row” written by Eric Wolfgang Korngold in 1942. It (Star Wars) is an obvious rippoff of Mr. Korngold’s piece. I’ve fooled people with it at movie parties. Recently I’ve come across the liner notes for the Special Edition soundtrack to Star Wars in which John Williams now calls his theme an “homage” to the music of the old movie themes…yeah, right.
For those of you blessed enough to own recordings of both the ANH soundtrack and The Planets, conduct a little experiment in the privacy of your own homes. Listen to track three of the Special Edition soundtrack, Imperial Attack. Note the horn solo at approximately one minute seventeen seconds into the track.
Now listen to Mars, Bringer of War, from the planets. It’s eerily similar–many Star Wars fans will listen to the Holst and think they’re hearing the the Williams score right up until the trumpet fanfare after the horn solo at two minutes which is the ancestor of the solo in the soundtrack.
May I cite in defense of my point:
“Interestingly enough, today’s master of extraterrestrial music, John Williams, has borrowed freely from The Planets in his film scores, most notably in his depiction of the Empire forces in Star Wars, which echoes the sinister martial rhythm heard at the beginning of Mars, the Bringer of War.”
–Ted Libbey in the National Public Radio Guide to Building a Classical CD Collection, p. 92. Workman Publishing, New York.
There’s nothing wrong with Williams doing this, but we need to be aware that it’s not the original. Handel, to name one, copied entire arias other people had written for use in his own oratorios. Only in the twentieth century has copyright become a serious issue in music.
However, I do have a lot more respect for a movie like Space Odyssey: 2001 where the director chose to use the original music, rather than rewriting it to suit the circumstances.
