# Star Wars nitpick: How could Darth Vader know . . .
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 21, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826 "2005-05-21T00:47:40Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/1 "2005-05-21T00:47:40Z")
This is so much part of the collective unconscious now that I see no need for a spoiler box: In _The Empire Strikes Back,_ Darth Vader reveals to Luke Skywalker, “I am your father!” But how could Vader know that, and **not** know that Princess Leia – a much more prominent figure who came to his attention much sooner – was his daughter?
Or perhaps he **did** know, as early as _A New Hope,_ but was so deeply corrupted by the Dark Side that he was still willing to arrest her, torture her, and raise no objection when Grand Moff Tarkin ordered her execution?
---
### Author:  [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/2 "2005-05-21T00:53:58Z")
Midichlorians.
Seriously, I had a lively conversation with my friend about that after we saw ROTS. His reasoning was that since Leah herself didn’t know, she didn’t have the force in her. IOW, only when you are aware of the Force yourself do you project it outwardly. My argument was that if that were the case, how did Qui Gon recognize the Force in Anakin, since Anakin didn’t know?
---
### Author:  [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/3 "2005-05-21T01:06:31Z")
On a far more pragmatic note… Luke was still using the ‘skywalker’ name. Doesn’t exactly take a leap of force for the man who was once Anakin Skywalker to suspect something there. 🙂
---
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/4 "2005-05-21T01:12:13Z")
> [@chrisk](#):
>
> On a far more pragmatic note… Luke was still using the ‘skywalker’ name. Doesn’t exactly take a leap of force for the man who was once Anakin Skywalker to suspect something there. 🙂
For all we know, in the SW universe “Skywalker” is as common a name as “Smith.”
---
### Author:  [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/5 "2005-05-21T01:23:23Z")
Yeah, but that still doesn’t explain why Obi-Wan doesn’t change _his_ name. After all, Luke may have been relatively “safe” because Vader didn’t know he existed, but surely there would’ve been an intergalactic APB for one of the last surviving Jedi (especially the one who deformed Vader so badly). How hard would it be to check out all the Kenobis–especially one that suspiciously turned up on Anakin’s home planet?
---
### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/6 "2005-05-21T02:23:12Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#):
>
> Yeah, but that still doesn’t explain why Obi-Wan doesn’t change his name.
Perhaps he did. Seems only Leia and the Skywalkers referred to him as “Kenobi”.
---
### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/7 "2005-05-21T02:24:31Z")
Until he met up with Vader, that is.
---
### Author:  [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/8 "2005-05-21T02:29:57Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#):
>
> How hard would it be to check out all the Kenobis…
Kenobi = Jones
---
### Author:  [@Tamex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamex)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/9 "2005-05-21T05:20:35Z")
No, no–the Star Wars phone book lists people by their first name instead of their last. Hence, Obi Wan hides by changing his name to Ben. And Darth doesn’t even know Luke’s first name, so, no luck there. Therefore, it was safe to give Luke the last name of Skywalker.
As for Leia…c’mon! Anyone expect a mere female to have Jedi powers? Female Jedi seem to be seriously missing, especially among major characters. No wonder Darth never suspected a thing.
---
### Author:  [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/10 "2005-05-21T05:27:20Z")
Vader doesn’t sense Leia for the same reason Luke doesn’t have any Force memories of Padme. Parallels are drawn between father and son, mother and daughter.
Luke has a desire for adventure, is arrogant, and is always spending his time looking towards the future rather than keeping his mind in the present, where it should be focused. In this respect he is like his father. His journey becomes a quest to redeem Anakin.
Leia grows up to be a strong woman with a passion for politics, much like her mother. She had a Force connection with Padme and was able to retain “Just images really. Feelings.” about her mother.
At least that’s what I took from it.
---
### Author:  [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/11 "2005-05-21T06:14:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> This is so much part of the collective unconscious now that I see no need for a spoiler box: In _The Empire Strikes Back,_ Darth Vader reveals to Luke Skywalker, “I am your father!” But how could Vader know that, and **not** know that Princess Leia – a much more prominent figure who came to his attention much sooner – was his daughter?
>
> Or perhaps he **did** know, as early as _A New Hope,_ but was so deeply corrupted by the Dark Side that he was still willing to arrest her, torture her, and raise no objection when Grand Moff Tarkin ordered her execution?
I think that, Force Powers aside, Leia went by the name Organa. I’m gonna spoiler box this as it contains Ep. III material:
[spoiler]Vader was told by Palpatine that Padme died by Vader’s own hand at the end of RotS, so Vader never knew that he had children, assuming they died with Padme.
Accordingly, after the Battle of Yavin, I’m assuming Imperial agents winkeled out of the Rebellion Luke’s name (Skywalker), reported to Palpatine, who put 2 + 2 together.
In TESB, when Vader and the Emperor converse, and Paplatine brings up the “son of Skywalker” bit, Vader likewise puts 2 + 2 together.
Why he then didn’t realize that Palpatine lied to him at the end of RotS is beyond me; another one of Lucas’ glaring continuity errors.
Or maybe Vader put it down to Obi-Wan’s craftiness. I dunno. In any case, since Vader didn’t know until TESB that he had issue who survived, let alone fraternal twins, there was no reason for him to be probing and feeling via The Force for familial connections when he confronted Leia on her ship at the beginning of Ep. IV.[/spoiler]
Just my best guess at Lucas’ mess.
---
### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/12 "2005-05-21T06:45:31Z")
> [@ExTank](#):
>
> Why he then didn’t realize that Palpatine lied to him at the end of RotS is beyond me; another one of Lucas’ glaring continuity errors.
You could argue it doesn’t matter because he knows he belongs to the Emperor, and has for 20 years at that point. But you’re still correct.
---
### Author:  [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/13 "2005-05-21T09:07:20Z")
> [@chrisk](#):
>
> On a far more pragmatic note… Luke was still using the ‘skywalker’ name. Doesn’t exactly take a leap of force for the man who was once Anakin Skywalker to suspect something there. 🙂
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> For all we know, in the SW universe “Skywalker” is as common a name as “Smith.”
"Luke! _ **I** _ am your…uh, lessee…first cousin…uh…twice removed. No. Wait…Second cousin, once removed!
Join me! Together we will rule the galaxy! As, uh, you know, blood relatives."
---
### Author:  [@sewalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sewalk)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/14 "2005-05-21T09:33:34Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#):
>
> "Luke! _ **I** _ am your…uh, lessee…first cousin…uh…twice removed. No. Wait…Second cousin, once removed!
Don’t.
That joke was done much better in **Spaceballs** :
Dark Helmet: I am your father’s brother’s nephew’s cousin’s former roommate.
Lone Starr: What’s that make us?
Dark Helmet: Absolutely nothing!
---
### Author:  [@middleman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/middleman)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/15 "2005-05-21T12:34:47Z")
Maybe Vader sensed Luke’s presence when Luke used the force.
He did blow up the Death Star RIGHT IN VADER’s _face_!
---
### Author:  [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/16 "2005-05-21T13:09:07Z")
Just saw episode III last night…
Anakin’s journey to the dark side is orchestrated every single step of the way by one thing: Lies (and half-truths) Palpatine told him. Anakin fell for every single word that came out of Palpatine’s mouth hook, line and sinker, including the one about Amidala dying. So, how did Palpatine know she was dead? He had a spy in Organa’s organization. How did Vader not know Leia existed? Palpatine didn’t tell him about her.
---
### Author:  [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/17 "2005-05-21T17:22:31Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#):
>
> Yeah, but that still doesn’t explain why Obi-Wan doesn’t change _his_ name. After all, Luke may have been relatively “safe” because Vader didn’t know he existed, but surely there would’ve been an intergalactic APB for one of the last surviving Jedi (especially the one who deformed Vader so badly). How hard would it be to check out all the Kenobis–especially one that suspiciously turned up on Anakin’s home planet?
While it was clearly conquered by the Empire at some point, at the time that Kenobi takes refuge as a hermit on Tatooine, that system is not part of the Republic. Vader would have no registry of the population from which to search.
Ben could have easily used his Jedi powers to exist mostly unnoticed except as that “crazy old man out in the desert” during the Dark Times.
---
### Author:  [@Orual](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orual)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/18 "2005-05-21T17:24:53Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> For all we know, in the SW universe “Skywalker” is as common a name as “Smith.”
Nope, the “Smith” of the Star Wars universe is “Antilles”.
---
### Author:  [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2005, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/19 "2005-05-21T17:31:07Z")
I would guess that realizing that Palpatine had lied to him was EXACTLY one of the things that started Vader’s journey from cold servant to conflicted father. Even in ESB, Vader seems more rebelious, seeking to ally with his son rather than serve his master. He never mentions the lie, but that may be on his mind.
---
### Author:  [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)
#### Post date: [May 22, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826/20 "2005-05-22T00:26:48Z")
as far as the emp. knew, padme had died while still pregnant. he did not know the children were born. only yoda, bail, obi-wan, owen and beru knew. i would bet bail never told his wife were leia came from. prob. just that her parents were dead.
vader knew the emp. had lied to him after he became vader. by then it was too late for him to turn against the emp. the emp. was all he had left.
once he finds out that he has a son… then he has a reason to go against the emp.
vader senses the force in luke when he is in the trench against the death star. luke is connected into the force when he has his first instruction from kenobi.
jinn senses the force in anakin because he is using the force as well. anakin has been connected for a while, having visions, fixing things, piloting.
leia hasn’t tapped into the force.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-nitpick-how-could-darth-vader-know/304826.md?page=2)