# Star Wars Question: Darth Vader killing the Emperor. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 4, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506 "2007-03-04T03:31:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/21 "2007-03-04T22:39:59Z")
This has probably been discussed on this board before, but what’s with the Tatooine-Dantooine pronunciation difference? Is that Leia’s Alderaanian accent? And why does one of the rebel leaders call Leia “princess lee-ya” in ep 4? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2007, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/22 "2007-03-04T22:52:37Z")
[QUOTE=interface2x] This has probably been discussed on this board before, but what’s with the Tatooine-Dantooine pronunciation difference? [/QUOTE] They’re two different planets. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/23 "2007-03-05T03:11:48Z")
[QUOTE=USCDiver] Hmm, I’ve always had a different take on the whole situation. I think that Vader was using the ‘Join me and we’ll rule the galaxy as father and son’ line to trick him. The Emperor sent Vader to bring Luke back and he thought this line would be most likely to appeal to him. I don’t think Vader was capable of actually planning to off the Emperor because he’d been submissive to him all these years. Why the Emperor wanted to have Luke brought in is another question. One possibility is that he was so powerful in the force he wanted him dead like all the other Jedi. The other possibility was the Emperor needed a new apprentice as Vader had gotten quite a few miles on him and was starting to need maintainance too frequently, always in the shop, etc. The Emperor might not even care which scenario plays out, so he sets up the fight between the two of them in the Throne chamber. If Vader wins, he’s still got his servant, more loyal than ever. If Luke wins, he’s completed his trip to the Dark Side and will be easy to mold into a Sith. [/QUOTE] That’s partly my take on it, except I disagree about Vader being unable to plot the overthrow of the Emperor. The Jedi philosophy is based around peacefulness and tranquility. The Sith philosophy is just the opposite: it’s based on conflict and turmoil. The Sith have ritualized treachery as the way to ensure that only the most powerful of their members survive to overthrow the Jedi. There’s one master, who seeks out an apprentice with the expectation that the apprentice will try to kill him at some point. If the apprentice suceeds, then the new master is clearly more powerful than the old, and the cause of the Sith is advanced. If the apprentice fails, it’s just evidence of his weakness, and is undeserving of being Sith. At the same time, the Master is always playing his apprentice against a host of other dark force users, testing the apprentice and making sure that only the strongest live to serve him. It wasn’t Vader’s betrayal that took the Emperor by surprise. It was Vader’s sacrifice. He never imagined that Vader would be willing to give up his own life to kill the Emperor. > [@Chronos](#): > > Or perhaps they’re not native to Hoth at all, but to some other environment which is cold, but not that cold, and the Rebels brought them along as a convenient beast of burden which is best-suited to the Hoth environment, even if they’re not completely suited. Or they’re native to the planet, but not that particular region. Or they’re migratory, and the Rebels were keeping them in the area long past the season when they should have moved on. ---
**Author:** ![Asylum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/53a042/32.png) [@Asylum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asylum)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/24 "2007-03-05T03:21:11Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Or they’re native to the planet, but not that particular region. Or they’re migratory, and the Rebels were keeping them in the area long past the season when they should have moved on. [/QUOTE] And let’s not forget that there was a storm. It’s possible that the tauntauns might live around the area of the rebel base year round, but they’re smart/instinctive enough to seek out shelter from a storm. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/25 "2007-03-05T03:29:21Z")
Just to expand on the whole one master/one apprentice thing (from the Expanded Universe, not the films), it hadn’t always been part of the Sith code. It was introduced because various Sith inevitably attacked each other pretty often - thinning the ranks meant less Sith actually around, but then arrogance is pretty well ingrained in the Dark side anyway. Not that it was followed to the letter. The Emperor had several other Force-using agents. Vader was his strong right hand, but he had less visible servants to do the stuff a 6-foot-something well-known guy in a robot suit couldn’t. Less in the way of apprentices and more just Force-capable people he’d trained in specific techniques to do what he wanted (though really that’s all Vader was himself, to an extent). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Long\_Road](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@The\_Long\_Road](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Long_Road)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/26 "2007-03-05T04:00:43Z")
For killing the Emperor, I figure a good ambush while he was in a shuttle would work well. Along the lines of the story line in the Tie-Fighter game. I hated protecting him. Figured it was similar to protecting Hitler’s plane. “You saved the Emperor!”. Yippie. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/27 "2007-03-05T07:45:46Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] It wasn’t Vader’s betrayal that took the Emperor by surprise. It was Vader’s sacrifice. He never imagined that Vader would be willing to give up his own life to kill the Emperor. [/QUOTE] And Luke’s refusal to kill Vader after he defeated him, which is exactly what Anakin did not do, and which I think directly led to Vader’s redemption. ---
**Author:** ![Eleusis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Eleusis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eleusis)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/28 "2007-03-05T09:08:01Z")
When is part 7 coming out? **Star Wars** Part 7: Another good vs. evil drama It has been a light time for the Sith. Jedi Luke Skywalker, with help from the rebellion, has overturned the Evil Emperor and brought balance back to galaxy. But on the tiny fire planet of flamos, the evil emperor’s infant child is already learning to use his evil powers… I’m sure I’m not the first to think of that, but I _did_ write that opener… ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/29 "2007-03-05T09:49:20Z")
[QUOTE=meow meow] “Your Ton Ton will freeze before the first marker”, Han is told, before he starts out [/QUOTE] I love that scene because of Hans’ response to the poor guy who warns him; “Then I’ll see you in hell!” Why? Why Hans? Why send this guy to hell because he warns you of the weather (that kills your poor Taun Taun!) Why? And on ROTJ, what the hell is up with all the soothsaying the Sith come up with? Yeah, the Emperor forsaw Vader bringing his son before him, but why did he send him to Endor then in the first place? And if he saw Vader bringing Luke to him, why did he not forsee Vader throwing him over the edge of the pit in the Death Star? I’m trying to build support for a reimaging of Revenge of the Sith, at the end Obi Wan and Yoda run into the delivery suite before the scan shouting; ITS TWINS! perhaps pushing each other out of the way to be the first to say it 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DataZak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@DataZak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataZak)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/30 "2007-03-05T10:26:29Z")
[QUOTE=Pushkin] And on ROTJ, what the hell is up with all the soothsaying the Sith come up with? Yeah, the Emperor forsaw Vader bringing his son before him, but why did he send him to Endor then in the first place? And if he saw Vader bringing Luke to him, why did he not forsee Vader throwing him over the edge of the pit in the Death Star? [/QUOTE] Maybe the Emperor chose only to see the future that he likes? Yoda is humble enough to admit that the future is always in motion but Palpatine saw all the possible outcomes but chose only to believe the one that he wants (Vader dies and Luke joins him as the new apprentice or that Vader kills Luke and the Rebel fleet is decimated). ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/31 "2007-03-05T13:23:25Z")
Also having caught some of the Star Wars replays on HBO lately, I have an opinion poll: Muppet yoda, or CGI yoda? Personally, I love that muppet. I don’t care how well a cgi-ist thinks he can match skin texture and get the lighting right, it’s still not as good as having an actor interact with a real thing. And, the puppetry is, of course, top notch. . .where gestures match the vocals, and he has his own way of moving. Yeah, the tips of the ears on the muppet Yoda flop around a little and his mouth doesn’t move very well, but I’m still not sold on a 100% computer generated character yet. I was surprised seeing ESB again for the first time in years how much I liked Yoda. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/32 "2007-03-05T14:43:27Z")
Why does everyone think that Vader wanted to be emperor, or that all he had to do to achieve it was to kill the existing emperor? I’ve only seen eps. I-III once each, so I don’t remember every little detail, but I don’t remember Anakin showing any desire or talent for political power. He wanted to learn the force, and he wanted to be with Amidala; always someone for him to learn from, protect, or follow in some way. As the emperor’s right hand man, that was as close to “ruling the galaxy” as his vision could take him. Also, I always saw him as the Emperor’s thug; an enforcer to be used on certain projects, but essentially outside of the political chain-of-command. In ep. IV, Vader doesn’t appear to outrank Governor Tarkin, for example. If the U.S. president dies, he is not succeeded by his chief of staff. Emperor Palpatine doesn’t strike me as a guy who would set up a formal line of succession, but on his death there could be other high-ranking schemers who would try to gain power. And **Trunk** , definitely muppet Yoda, precisely _because_ the ears flop around a little. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/33 "2007-03-05T15:14:22Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] I’ve only seen eps. I-III once each, so I don’t remember every little detail, but I don’t remember Anakin showing any desire or talent for political power. He wanted to learn the force, and he wanted to be with Amidala; always someone for him to learn from, protect, or follow in some way. As the emperor’s right hand man, that was as close to “ruling the galaxy” as his vision could take him. [/QUOTE] When Padme met him on the lava planet, he told her that he felt his powers growing so much that he could overthrow the Emperor and the two of them could rule the galaxy. He didn’t really think that way before becoming a Sith, but it would seem that the Dark Side is all about grabbing as much power for yourself as possible. Oh, and muppet Yoda for sure. CGI Yoda is cool and all, but the muppet version just seemed more real. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/34 "2007-03-05T15:34:19Z")
It’s always bothered me that all Vader had to do was toss the Emperor down a great big hole to kill him. He’s got the Freakin’ Force! People with the Force can Levitate! We’ve seen it plenty of times! And something I’ve wondered since we first saw him – Howcum the Empoeror can’t get a decent dentist? He’s the Emperor! Even if the depredations of The Force wrinkled his face like a prune, you’d think he could get some of it undone. But even if he couldn’t, he ought to at least be able to do something about those yellowed, rotten-looking teeth. And he really needs to go on What Not to Wear… ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/35 "2007-03-05T15:39:25Z")
Muppet Yoda, then CGI Yoda. Phantom Menace Muppet Yoda, however, was godawful. ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2007, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/36 "2007-03-05T16:14:54Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Phantom Menace Muppet Yoda, however, was godawful. [/QUOTE] Couldn’t agree more. The CGI Yoda in Ep III actually looked pretty good, but I grew very tired of him jumping around super-fast. Muppet Yoda walked slowly with a cane, he didn’t need to be a super-quick lightsaber wielding lunatic. So, I rate the Yodas… Best: ESB, RotJ Not bad: RofS Quite Bad: AotC Worst: TPM ---
**Author:** ![deadeyesdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dec6dc/32.png) [@deadeyesdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deadeyesdad)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/37 "2007-03-06T22:10:46Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Or they’re native to the planet, but not that particular region. Or they’re migratory, and the Rebels were keeping them in the area long past the season when they should have moved on. [/QUOTE] Of course an African Tuan Taun not a European one. They could grip them by the husks. Or use some twine. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/38 "2007-03-06T22:37:23Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] It’s always bothered me that all Vader had to do was toss the Emperor down a great big hole to kill him. He’s got the Freakin’ Force! People with the Force can Levitate! We’ve seen it plenty of times! [/QUOTE] I dunno, one thing I liked about Ep III (or was it II? I also have only seen them once apiece) was that it explains how the Emperor got so scarred and withered-looking – by using the Electric Shock technique. Perhaps by using this on Vader he was not only ensuring that he would almost certainly die from this expenditure of raw Force, but also prevented him from tapping into the Force to levitate himself out of the hole? ---
**Author:** ![OBJECTION](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/fbc32d/32.png) [@OBJECTION](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OBJECTION)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/39 "2007-03-06T22:51:50Z")
[QUOTE=Hypno-Toad] Actually, like most Jediphiles, the emperor knows exactly what to say and do to keep a tight psychological grip on his dark minion. [/QUOTE] “Jediphile” is such an [awful](http://iharthdarth.livejournal.com/6817.html) and [accurate](http://iharthdarth.livejournal.com/10292.html) word. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506/40 "2007-03-06T23:06:20Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] Why does everyone think that Vader wanted to be emperor, or that all he had to do to achieve it was to kill the existing emperor? [/quote] Because he says he wants to do just that, in _Empire_, when he tries to get Luke to turn to the dark side. Besides, it’s the nature of the Sith philosophy to desire power and control over other people. > [@](#): > > I’ve only seen eps. I-III once each, so I don’t remember every little detail, but I don’t remember Anakin showing any desire or talent for political power. He wanted to learn the force, and he wanted to be with Amidala; always someone for him to learn from, protect, or follow in some way. As the emperor’s right hand man, that was as close to “ruling the galaxy” as his vision could take him. Yeah, but in a very real sense, Darth Vader is not Anakin Skywalker. All of the goals and desires he had in the prequel trilogy were effectively destroyed by the time he turned fully to the dark side. After that point, pretty much the only person in the galaxy he hangs out with his master in the dark arts, so it’s a pretty safe assumption that Vader picked up his master’s goals along with his master’s techniques. > [@](#): > > Also, I always saw him as the Emperor’s thug; an enforcer to be used on certain projects, but essentially outside of the political chain-of-command. In ep. IV, Vader doesn’t appear to outrank Governor Tarkin, for example. If the U.S. president dies, he is not succeeded by his chief of staff. Emperor Palpatine doesn’t strike me as a guy who would set up a formal line of succession, but on his death there could be other high-ranking schemers who would try to gain power. Sure, but none of the other would-be successors would be Dark Jedi, so Vader would likely assume (and probably be right) that he could convince, coerce, or destroy any who opposed his rise to the throne. Being a Sith, Vader probably looked forward to the chaos caused by any attempt to seize the throne for himself. Also, Tarkin was a Grand Moff, not a Governor. It appears that he had enough political power that the Emperor had to work with him, as opposed to dominate him. I always figured Vader’s purpose for being on the Death Star was to make sure Tarkin didn’t get any ideas. If he tried to move the Death Star to Coruscant to make a power grab, the Emperor wanted his most trust servant standing by to give Tarkin the ol’ force choke. But barring explict acts of treason, he was instructed to give Tarkin free reign to run his ship how he wanted. It’s not that Tarkin outranked Vader, but rather that they were in seperate chains of command, and each answered solely to the Emperor. Note that in _Empire_, after Tarkin has been removed from the picture by the Alliance, Vader seems to take over Tarkin’s position as commander of the Imperial Navy, so we can see Vader doing a bit of Empire building of his own already. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question-darth-vader-killing-the-emperor/394506.md?page=3)