# Star Wars question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110 "2013-01-23T15:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/41 "2013-01-24T04:24:19Z")
Two other examples of actors making a big impression in a movie where they had a relatively small amount of screen time: Anthony Hopkins was only on screen for a total of sixteen minutes in _The Silence of the Lambs_ and Michael Keaton was only on screen for a total of seventeen minutes in _Beetlejuice_. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/42 "2013-01-24T04:41:03Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I didn’t time it out by any means but I would venture a guess that the Droids percentage is much higher. There are very few scenes other than the ones that focus on the Empire that don’t have at least one of the droids. The droids were the story-tellers, the focal perspective. Lucas lifted that mechanism from a movie called _Kakushi-toride no san-akunin (or, Hidden Fortess)_ by Kurosawa. The story is much bigger than the characters who view it for the audience. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/43 "2013-01-24T04:57:06Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side, a dark side and it keeps the Universe together. Nearly all the Duct Tape I have used (and I have used a lot) has been silver on the back and eggshell white on the sticky side. Both seem pretty light to me, which side is the dark side? > [@](#): > > And Carrie’s boobs from bouncing. Oh, curse that stuff, then. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/44 "2013-01-24T05:30:03Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Two other examples of actors making a big impression in a movie where they had a relatively small amount of screen time: Anthony Hopkins was only on screen for a total of sixteen minutes in _The Silence of the Lambs_ and Michael Keaton was only on screen for a total of seventeen minutes in _Beetlejuice_. Boba Fett - Scratt in the first Ice Age movie ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/45 "2013-01-24T05:48:17Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Obi Wan: “A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.” > > That’s… pretty direct. Though vader being Dutch for father (though pronounced differently) is kind of foreshadowing. ---
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/46 "2013-01-24T05:51:30Z")
> [@magnusblitz](#): > > Then again, Luke and Leia kiss in ESB too, which you think he would cut down on if he suddenly decided to make them siblings, so maybe Lucas is just weird. Well, it could be that George knew, but Luke and Leia didn’t, so in writing, he didn’t want his out-of-character knowledge to affect the in-character dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/47 "2013-01-24T06:08:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Two other examples of actors making a big impression in a movie where they had a relatively small amount of screen time: Anthony Hopkins was only on screen for a total of sixteen minutes in _The Silence of the Lambs_ and Michael Keaton was only on screen for a total of seventeen minutes in _Beetlejuice_. Ok that Beetlejuice factoid is VERY interesting. As a huge fan of the movie I never would have guessed he only had 17 minutes of screentime, and that just seems wrong! But I guess it really does take him quite a long time to show up, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![LupusYonderboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9d8465/32.png) [@LupusYonderboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LupusYonderboy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/48 "2013-01-24T16:09:26Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Though vader being Dutch for father (though pronounced differently) is kind of foreshadowing. Yeah, the whole dramatic reveal in ESB wasn’t much of a surprise for us Dutch kids… ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/49 "2013-01-24T16:25:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Being as this thread has already taken a turn in that direction, I’ll add that one of the other factoids mentioned in the article is that Carrie Fisher did the entire movie without a bra. I thought that I read somewhere that she was wrapped up in gauze to minimize her shape some. But then I also remember reading this story a few times: [http://www.blastr.com/2010/08/how-george-lucas-convince.php](http://www.blastr.com/2010/08/how-george-lucas-convince.php) ---
**Author:** ![Sister\_Vigilante](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Sister\_Vigilante](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sister_Vigilante)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/50 "2013-01-24T20:24:45Z")
There is a deleted scene in ESB right before the “jealousy” kiss, where Luke makes the moves on Leia and they almost kiss for real. C-3PO interrupts them. And Vader = father was probably a fluke. Obi Wan gives Luke a lightsaber (which he immediately points directly at his face) and tells him his father wanted him to have it. I don’t recall that happening in the prequel when Obi Wan took it from a burning-alive Anakin. ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/51 "2013-01-24T21:27:00Z")
> [@LawMonkey](#): > > Which reminds me of something I read or heard once, about James Earl Jones being paid as a “sound effect” rather than an actor for his Star Wars work… I don’t know about that, but “the version I heard was,” the reason Jones wasn’t credited as the voice of Darth Vader when the movie first came out was, he felt that he didn’t deserve a credit as voiceover work in a movie isn’t really acting. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/52 "2013-01-24T21:38:02Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > And Vader = father was probably a fluke. Obi Wan gives Luke a lightsaber (which he immediately points directly at his face) and tells him his father wanted him to have it. I don’t recall that happening in the prequel when Obi Wan took it from a burning-alive Anakin. My speculation is that there was some intent behind it. My guess is that Vader was originally intended as a future father figure for Luke but not his actual biological father. I think when _Star Wars_ was made, the back story was that Luke’s father was dead, Obi Wan was a Jedi, and Vader was a Jedi who had gone bad. The intent was that if future films were made in the series, with Obi Wan dead, Vader would step in to Obi Wan’s role as Luke’s instructor and teach Luke the Jedi ways - but in his own corrupt version rather than Obi Wan’s pure version. Darth Vader would be Luke’s “Dark Father”. The climax of the story would have been Luke rejecting Vader’s evil ways and returning to Obi Wan’s good ways. When Star Wars was hugely successful and the sequel was a go, Lucas met with Leigh Brackett, who was the professional writer doing the script. Lucas and Brackett discussed the overall story and then Brackett wrote a first draft of the script for Lucas to look over. And in this script, Luke’s father was dead and appeared as a ghost to Luke to warn him about Vader. But then Brackett died and Lucas took over directly as the script writer. My guess is that at some point he had a fit of inspiration and thought of the scene where Vader says _“Luke I am your father!”_ and figured that would be so cool. So Lucas threw out all of the long-term character and plot lines he had been working on to rewrite the story so he could include that one scene. Brackett or some other professional would have tried to restrain Lucas by pointing out the overall story development was more important than a single good line but Lucas was sort of a hack. ---
**Author:** ![Mrs.Cake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2acd7d/32.png) [@Mrs.Cake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrs.Cake)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/53 "2013-01-24T21:50:11Z")
I’d just like to say that, having been a female teen in the '70’s, hardly anyone on or offscreen wore a bra. It wasn’t even unusual enough to be remarked upon when _Star Wars_ came out, although she was quite a bit more busty than the average 70’s starlet (that was remarked upon at least by my brothers). Also, Carrie Fisher said in her one-woman show _Wishful Drinking_ that Lucas decided space princesses should not wear bras and made her go without when she wanted to wear one. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/54 "2013-01-24T21:51:16Z")
But that is like the greatest movie line ever… so all forgiven ;). ---
**Author:** ![Clark\_Cello](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58f4c7/32.png) [@Clark\_Cello](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clark_Cello)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/55 "2013-01-24T21:59:33Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My speculation is that there was some intent behind it. My guess is that Vader was originally intended as a future father figure for Luke but not his actual biological father. > > I think when _Star Wars_ was made, the back story was that Luke’s father was dead, Obi Wan was a Jedi, and Vader was a Jedi who had gone bad. The intent was that if future films were made in the series, with Obi Wan dead, Vader would step in to Obi Wan’s role as Luke’s instructor and teach Luke the Jedi ways - but in his own corrupt version rather than Obi Wan’s pure version. Darth Vader would be Luke’s “Dark Father”. The climax of the story would have been Luke rejecting Vader’s evil ways and returning to Obi Wan’s good ways. > > When Star Wars was hugely successful and the sequel was a go, Lucas met with Leigh Brackett, who was the professional writer doing the script. Lucas and Brackett discussed the overall story and then Brackett wrote a first draft of the script for Lucas to look over. And in this script, Luke’s father was dead and appeared as a ghost to Luke to warn him about Vader. > > But then Brackett died and Lucas took over directly as the script writer. My guess is that at some point he had a fit of inspiration and thought of the scene where Vader says _“Luke I am your father!”_ and figured that would be so cool. So Lucas threw out all of the long-term character and plot lines he had been working on to rewrite the story so he could include that one scene. Brackett or some other professional would have tried to restrain Lucas by pointing out the overall story development was more important than a single good line but Lucas was sort of a hack. I won’t dispute that Lucas could be a hack, but if it happened like you speculate, I think he made the right call. That was a HUGE movie moment if you lived through it. This was obviously before the internet, and the line was a surprise to millions of people who saw the movie (including the young me). ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/56 "2013-01-24T22:12:31Z")
> [@Mrs.Cake](#): > > I’d just like to say that, having been a female teen in the '70’s, hardly anyone on or offscreen wore a bra. It wasn’t even unusual enough to be remarked upon when _Star Wars_ came out, although she was quite a bit more busty than the average 70’s starlet (that was remarked upon at least by my brothers). Also, Carrie Fisher said in her one-woman show _Wishful Drinking_ that Lucas decided space princesses should not wear bras and made her go without when she wanted to wear one. First. I really miss the Seventies. 🙂 Secondly, it was a safety issue: ``` [Lucas] [explained](http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/scifi/princess-leia-braless-underwear-space.html) that in space you get weightless, and so your flesh expands. What? But your bra doesn’t, so you get strangled by your bra. That’s why I couldn’t wear a bra in the first Star Wars. George actually came backstage when I did the show in San Francisco and told me that. ``` 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/57 "2013-01-25T00:37:23Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > And Vader = father was probably a fluke. Obi Wan gives Luke a lightsaber (which he immediately points directly at his face) and tells him his father wanted him to have it. I don’t recall that happening in the prequel when Obi Wan took it from a burning-alive Anakin. Well, it certainly goes without saying that George Lucas is all but totally responsible for the very creation of the term **'retcon** ’ itself! But you can also see it as Obi-wan, knowing Luke’s true history, on the one hand he has to shepherd the boy into his inevitable, strong-force-possessing-abilities future, but at the same time he must also shield him from his equally inherited potential to succumb to its dark side. Everything he does in episodes 4 and 5 can be seen as him doing exactly that, including lying to him about his father. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/58 "2013-01-25T01:49:32Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Well, it certainly goes without saying that George Lucas is all but totally responsible for the very creation of the term **'retcon** ’ itself! My favorite example… Princess Leia: Luke, what’s wrong? Luke: Leia, do you remember your mother? Your **real** mother? Princess Leia: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young. Luke: What do you remember? Princess Leia: Just… images really. Feelings. Luke: Tell me. Princess Leia: She was… very beautiful. Kind, but sad. Why are you asking me this? Luke: I have no memory of my mother. I never knew her. Yeah, I guess I would have to agree. Five minutes old is quite young. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/59 "2013-01-25T02:12:09Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > But that is like the greatest movie line ever… so all forgiven ;). > [@Clark\_Cello](#): > > I won’t dispute that Lucas could be a hack, but if it happened like you speculate, I think he made the right call. That was a HUGE movie moment if you lived through it. This was obviously before the internet, and the line was a surprise to millions of people who saw the movie (including the young me). I did live through it. I saw all of the Star Wars movies during their original theatrical runs. It was a great line and a great scene. But I stand by what I said. Lucas should have put more effort into the overall story arc and told a great story and let the great lines and great scenes come from that, rather than thinking of lines and scenes he wanted to put in his movie and then tried to make them all fit together. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/60 "2013-01-25T02:37:40Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > She wasn’t using the Force. Luke had been using it since he was a kid, though he didn’t know it that was how he was a good pilot, and he was using it like crazy when Vader was chasing him down the trench. Leia would hardly have used it at all, only when she was subtly influencing people during diplomatic negotiations (and even then that would’ve been rare, politicians have strong wills). Yeah, but her resistance to the mind probe was considerable, one would think that if you could call up force powers in a crisis even if untrained and unaware, that’d be the time, and Vader was standing right next to her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110.md?page=4)