# Star Wars question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 23, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110 "2013-01-23T15:14:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/61 "2013-01-25T03:59:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Yeah, I guess I would have to agree. Five minutes old is quite young. Dude, what she’s remembering is just feelings. That’s totally Force-assisted memory, right there. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/62 "2013-01-25T16:55:36Z")
I think people are crediting Leia using the Force to get the strength to choke Jabba because the RotJ Novelization strongly implies that was the case. In the movie it is not clear at all. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/63 "2013-01-25T17:31:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > but Lucas was sort of a hack. That’s like saying Mt. Everest is sort of tall.😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/64 "2013-01-25T17:46:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > That’s like saying Mt. Everest is sort of tall.😉 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/65 "2013-01-25T17:57:47Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Her specialty: screwing Go on… > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > with force-detection powers. Damnit. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/66 "2013-01-25T18:35:19Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > I think people are crediting Leia using the Force to get the strength to choke Jabba because the RotJ Novelization strongly implies that was the case. In the movie it is not clear at all. Never read the novelization. Seems kinda obvious to me. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/67 "2013-01-25T21:27:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Dude, what she’s remembering is just feelings. That’s totally Force-assisted memory, right there. I suppose that works, _from a certain point of view_. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/68 "2013-01-26T01:01:26Z")
> [@Clark\_Cello](#): > > I won’t dispute that Lucas could be a hack, but if it happened like you speculate, I think he made the right call. That was a HUGE movie moment if you lived through it. This was obviously before the internet, and the line was a surprise to millions of people who saw the movie (including the young me). Well, yeah. Changing your idea for a trilogy after the first book is not hack writing at all. A lot of writers do this–heck, many don’t even know where things are headed. The only thing that bugs people is his claiming that he didn’t change anything, when he clearly did. There are primary and period secondary sources. There are even quotes from Lucas himself, made in public or otherwise published, that contradict what he says later. What **Little Nemo** says is a decent summation, although the implication that he was doing it all for shock value of that line is dubious, since it seems that this was when Lucas came up with the entire idea of the prequel trilogy (as the second draft changes the film from Part II to Part V). The change itself was what Lucas was after, as it made the story better as far as he was concerned. It’s all in the [Secret History of Star Wars](http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com/). I have the free version from before it was published as a real book. It’s solid research, and details the entire process. Only part of it is available (as a PDF) for free online anymore, though, if you ask nicely, I might be willing to share the previous free full version (PDF) via PM. Or you might be able to find it with a little Google-fu. The relevant part is in Chapter 5, starting on page 166 in my copy. It also covers why the originals came out so much better–he had other writers handling the character moments and dialog, and he only handled the broad story strokes. He did it all for the prequels, and he can’t write dialog or characters at all. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/69 "2013-01-26T01:42:06Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Though vader being Dutch for father (though pronounced differently) is kind of foreshadowing. “I don’t mean to betray any family secrets, but if the truth be known, my grandmother was Dutch…” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/70 "2013-01-26T04:20:33Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > “I don’t mean to betray any family secrets, but if the truth be known, my grandmother was Dutch…” “And then you got Darth Vader, the blackest brother in the galaxy, Nubian god!” ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/71 "2013-01-26T06:19:43Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > You left out a few scenes with Leia; accusing her of being a spy, interrogation in her cell, putting the big hurt on Alderaan. You know, all those times he was right next to her and didn’t sense that his daughter was strong with the Force. The fleshed-out NPR radio drama elaborated on that interrogation - the floating droid with the hypo administered a hypnotic, and Vader attempted to get the location of the rebel base out of Leia by persuading her that he was her father. “Tell your father…” (This was written in 1980 by Brian Daley with some direction from Lucas.) Of course in context he wants her to believe she’s speaking to Bail Antilles, but there’s a nice irony there. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/72 "2013-01-26T08:30:24Z")
> [@Sister\_Vigilante](#): > > There is a deleted scene in ESB right before the “jealousy” kiss, where Luke makes the moves on Leia and they almost kiss for real. C-3PO interrupts them. > > And Vader = father was probably a fluke. Obi Wan gives Luke a lightsaber (which he immediately points directly at his face) and tells him his father wanted him to have it. I don’t recall that happening in the prequel when Obi Wan took it from a burning-alive Anakin. 1. Shaak Ti has been killed in deleted scenes how many times? Deleted scenes do nit count for canon, as opposed to showing that Lucas was BSing about “always sister bit”. 2. I am sure that if Obi Wan had asked Anakin, he would have said “sure why not”.😉 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/73 "2013-01-26T17:25:18Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > The fleshed-out NPR radio drama elaborated on that interrogation - the floating droid with the hypo administered a hypnotic, and Vader attempted to get the location of the rebel base out of Leia by persuading her that he was her father. “Tell your father…” (This was written in 1980 by Brian Daley with some direction from Lucas.) > > Of course in context he wants her to believe she’s speaking to Bail Antilles, but there’s a nice irony there. Bail Organa, I think. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/74 "2013-01-26T17:37:06Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Bail Organa, I think. Yeah, Wedge Antilles was a minor character in IV and V (and possibly VI…don’t remember offhand). His importance was expanded immensely in the EU, becoming the commanding officer of Rogue Squadron and more of a second-tier character (except in the Rogue Squadron books) than a bit part as he was in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/75 "2013-01-26T17:44:46Z")
Lucas has changed his story more times than his socks. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/76 "2013-01-26T17:45:20Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Obi Wan put a cloaking device on her midichlorians. /ridiculous fanwank No girl that small has a cloaking device! ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/77 "2013-01-26T17:57:31Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Bail Organa, I think. I always get those schmucks confused. (It doesn’t help that the character of Bail Organa _is_ “Bail Antilles” in the first draft of _Star Wars_.) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/78 "2013-01-26T18:47:26Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yeah, Wedge Antilles was a minor character in IV and V (and possibly VI…don’t remember offhand). His importance was expanded immensely in the EU, becoming the commanding officer of Rogue Squadron and more of a second-tier character (except in the Rogue Squadron books) than a bit part as he was in the movies. He obviously was an important figure. He had enough influence to get his nephew into the Jedi Order. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/79 "2013-01-26T19:08:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > He obviously was an important figure. He had enough influence to get his nephew into the Jedi Order. Huh? His nephew’s WIFE was in the new Jedi Order, but that had more to do with her parents than her husband… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110/80 "2013-01-26T19:16:11Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Huh? His nephew’s WIFE was in the new Jedi Order, but that had more to do with her parents than her husband… I think he’s referring to the fact that Ewan McGregor is the nephew of the guy who played Wedge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-question/648110.md?page=5)