# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/281 "2015-12-20T16:45:06Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Namely, the fact that for fourteen (?) years, he sat on the most valuable intellectual property in the history of the world and did nothing with it. Sixteen. Plus, his consistent refusal to release the original versions of the first three films on DVD or BluRay despite the enormous demand. There’s lots to criticize about Lucas, but “Will do anything for a buck,” isn’t one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/282 "2015-12-20T16:48:58Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Except that the last two times they built a death star it was destroyed in the exactly the same way, and they made exactly the same mistake. Also why are the Rebellion / Resistance still a ragged band of scrappy under dogs? Shouldn’t they be officially allied with the Republic and have a military alliance with them? Sure it will be fan-wanked away with side stories in various ways in the canon, but as a stand alone sequel its fails miserably to explain anything. FWIW the Second Death Star didn’t have the design flaw of the first. The Rebels blew it up by attacking it before it was finished. They didn’t need an exhaust port because they could fly right inside and blow up its generator directly. ETA: Re: Thrawn. I found Thrawn grew to be tiresome very fast. A bad guy who is always right is boring. The Star Wars EU in general never really clicked for me. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/283 "2015-12-20T16:55:44Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I’d say Thrawn is less “almost supernaturally clever” than “really clever, and good at selling himself as being even more clever than that.” He was blindsided repeatedly over the course of the series - at least twice as the result of “unknown unknowns” and three times as a result of his own character flaws biting him in the ass, but he was good at using the tools at his disposal to pull off flashy victories without showing how he did it, and I think his “examining their cultural artifacts” schtick could be part of that. Agreed, thanks for the friendly correction. In my defense I haven’t read these in about 25 years. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/284 "2015-12-20T17:17:46Z")
One thing I wanted to mention: There seemed to be a pleasant lack of the familiar Star Wars alien races. Aside from Chewie, Ackbar, and Nein numb, I’m not sure there were any. Whereas in the prequels, you couldn’t shake a stick without hitting a Rodian or Bith or Twi’lek, in this movie, there were a bunch of new alien designs that nevertheless felt very Star Wars. Well done. Makes it feel like the galaxy is an even bigger place than before, and we’re now seeing a new slice of it. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/285 "2015-12-20T17:27:08Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Whereas in the prequels, you couldn’t shake a stick without hitting a Rodian or Bith or Twi’lek, in this movie, there were a bunch of new alien designs that nevertheless felt very Star Wars. Well done. Makes it feel like the galaxy is an even bigger place than before, and we’re now seeing a new slice of it. This movie is set in what was referred to in the old EU as “the Unknown Regions”, and apparently some supplementary material released for the new movie uses that terminology as well. It’s an area which was never part of Republic space and which the Empire only ever occupied the fringes of, and was the home territory of the Rakata Empire (which is also apparently canon in the new EU as well) from the KOTOR games. So it makes sense that it’d be primarily inhabited by aliens we haven’t seen previously. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/286 "2015-12-20T17:40:08Z")
I could easily be confused here, but if I understand properly, the definitely-not-the-Imperial-Remnant First Order is based more or less on the outskirts of the galactic powerbase, and the Republic is apparently not involved officially in a war with them. The Resistance is basically a group doing what the Rebellion used to do, harassing the Imperials with a smaller force. Although, considering that Leia appears to be one of its top leaders, is it being implied that this is more or less their version of a Special Forces being deployed without any official acknowledgement? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/287 "2015-12-20T17:43:52Z")
After StarKiller base blew up those republic planets I recall a line something like “Without the Republic fleet, this attack is doomed.” ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/288 "2015-12-20T17:45:04Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > And for that matter, trying not to pick on you here, but you seem upset at the idea that Disney is trying to make as much money as possible. Well, of course they are. They’re a corporation. At the same time, clearly the most money they can possibly make is to make SW movies that are beloved by as much of the population as possible, so they can keep milking this cash cow into perpetuity. Granted it’s a teeny bit more complicated than that, as maybe they make more money off of kids than grownups due to merchandising and stuff, but it is clearly directly in Disney’s interest to make a movie that as many people as possible enjoy… and isn’t that what we, as fans, want them to be doing? As with other companies I could mention _cough_Games Workshop_cough_, I want them to make money by making a good product I want to buy and selling it at an acceptable price. If Disney can make an annoyingly flawed movie without it hurting their bottom line, they have no reason to make sure the next one isn’t also annoyingly flawed. As for the merchandising, I’m disappointed that the 3.75", 12" and even the 31" action figures all use the same crappy Kenner five point articulation. I’d be tempted to buy a great big Darth Vader action figure if [this](http://www.toysrus.com/product/prodpop.jsp?LargeImageURL=/graphics/product_images/pTRU1-15992698_alternate2_enh-z6.jpg&displayTab=enh&productId=21435596&totCount=2) didn’t have less articulation than [this](http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/lego/images/4/4b/Vader15.png/revision/latest?cb=20150925204408). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/289 "2015-12-20T17:51:31Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > One thing I wanted to mention: There seemed to be a pleasant lack of the familiar Star Wars alien races. Aside from Chewie, Ackbar, and Nein numb, I’m not sure there were any. Whereas in the prequels, you couldn’t shake a stick without hitting a Rodian or Bith or Twi’lek, in this movie, there were a bunch of new alien designs that nevertheless felt very Star Wars. Well done. Makes it feel like the galaxy is an even bigger place than before, and we’re now seeing a new slice of it. I also appreciated that the new alien races weren’t entirely one-offs. You see an alien in the village from the first scene of the movie, being beaten up by Stormtroopers, and then later see a different alien of the same species piloting one of the X-Wings in the attack on Starkiller base. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/290 "2015-12-20T17:52:07Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I could easily be confused here, but if I understand properly, the definitely-not-the-Imperial-Remnant First Order is based more or less on the outskirts of the galactic powerbase, and the Republic is apparently not involved officially in a war with them. The Resistance is basically a group doing what the Rebellion used to do, harassing the Imperials with a smaller force. Although, considering that Leia appears to be one of its top leaders, is it being implied that this is more or less their version of a Special Forces being deployed without any official acknowledgement? I gather that the Republic feels it’s too risky to provoke total war with the First Order, so they’re providing aid and personnel to the Resistance in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge manner that provides them plausible deniability. A proxy war, in other words, just like many that the US engaged in against various leftist states during the Cold War. General Leia and Admiral Ackbar are probably officially there as “advisors” or something of that nature. > [@Grumman](#): > > I’d be tempted to buy a great big Darth Vader action figure if [this](http://www.toysrus.com/product/prodpop.jsp?LargeImageURL=/graphics/product_images/pTRU1-15992698_alternate2_enh-z6.jpg&displayTab=enh&productId=21435596&totCount=2) didn’t have less articulation than [this](http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/lego/images/4/4b/Vader15.png/revision/latest?cb=20150925204408). I actually own one of those giant Darth Vaders. I bought it on a whim while Christmas shopping at Walmart a few years ago. My cat is terrified of it. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/291 "2015-12-20T18:02:17Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I could easily be confused here, but if I understand properly, the definitely-not-the-Imperial-Remnant First Order is based more or less on the outskirts of the galactic powerbase, and the Republic is apparently not involved officially in a war with them. The Resistance is basically a group doing what the Rebellion used to do, harassing the Imperials with a smaller force. Although, considering that Leia appears to be one of its top leaders, is it being implied that this is more or less their version of a Special Forces being deployed without any official acknowledgement? That’s my read on the situation, more or less, although I think the relationship between the Republic and the Resistance is a bit more like the US and the Allies in the early days of WWII, before the US formally entered the war. The Resistance is mostly drawn from inhabitants of the regions being dominated by the First Order, with a sprinkling of experienced officers “on loan” from the Republic’s military and a whole lot of free ships and guns. I hoping when they said they destroyed “the” Republic fleet, they meant, “the Republic fleet in this region of space that’s been aiding the Resistance,” and not, “Basically all the ships owned by the Republic.” Ideally (and to carry through with the WWII metaphor) this should be the Republic’s Pearl Harbor, and the next movie will feature a more militarily engaged Republic. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/292 "2015-12-20T19:21:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Nearly 300 posts, lots of discussion about J. J. Abrams, but nobody has mentioned lens flare yet. > > Are there any conclusions I can draw from those observations? > [@GuanoLad](#): > > The lens flares in Star Trek represented the clean technological future. Star Wars is neither clean, nor our future. No lens flares. > > Well, there are light emitting weapons and that does occasionally throw up a flare or two (and interactive lighting, which is pretty cool) but that’s the extent of it. I’m not a big movie-goer, and I’m getting the feeling I could be getting whooshed. On something of a lark, I had read the Star Wars VII anticipation thread, and I recall there being a LOT of fretting about how Abrams’s penchant for dropping a lens flare into every remotely appropriate shot (defined as “a shot that includes a light source”) was going to wreck the film. Don’t get me wrong: I don’t dismiss the possibility of a guy making popcorn movies banging in a visual effect for the purpose of symbolizing an overarching theme to his _mise en scene_. But if that WAS intended as a whoosh, I think it was brilliant, and that it deserves proper recognition. If it wasn’t, of course, y’all can just enjoy a good chuckle at my expense. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/293 "2015-12-20T19:38:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Nearly 300 posts, lots of discussion about J. J. Abrams, but nobody has mentioned lens flare yet. > > Are there any conclusions I can draw from those observations? while I wasn’t really looking for it, I only noticed lens flare once towards the beginning of the movie. If there were any more than that, they certainly weren’t as distracting as the Star Trek ones. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/294 "2015-12-20T21:43:09Z")
The impression I get is that The Republic in this new franchise is not the galaxy-spanning polity that the Old Republic was, but rather a rather smaller coalition of planets. The First Order may similarly be operating on a smaller scale than the Galactic Empire was, the Empire and Alliance having beaten the stuffing out of each other for several decades. Many of the former Republic worlds may have splintered off into individual states or other smaller units. And yeah, the Starkiller scene gave the impression that this was supposed to have been the entire Republic being wiped out in one shot, which was rather underwhelming as The Republic appeared to be a half dozen worlds within sight of each other that we had seen and heard nothing of up till this point. I’m hoping this turns out to have been a number of centrally important Republic worlds, leaving the rest of The Republic around, but in a state of confusion and disorder. If _I_ had written the movie (and thank goodness that wasn’t all left to me), I’d have had the base steadily picking off Republic worlds throughout the film to amp up the urgency of the situation. Or, as mentioned in my first post, left out entirely so the plot could focus on the Search For Luke rather than the Wrath of Kylo. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/295 "2015-12-20T21:52:07Z")
[Red Letter Media](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvsiJppCdmk) (the people behind the Plinkett reviews of the Prequels) liked it a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/296 "2015-12-20T22:51:57Z")
> [@iLemming](#): > > Hamill – Nice green screen cameo! lol Green screen? ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/297 "2015-12-20T22:58:07Z")
There sure were a lot of reaction shots with Daisy Ridley looking at something in awe. The DVD might make for a good drinking game. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/298 "2015-12-20T22:58:37Z")
Remake of the first movie, but that’s fine. Maybe someday we’ll get the story of why Max von Sydow was on the sand planet with a map Luke left to this Fortress of Solitude, in case somebody wanted to come beg him to come back. It wasn’t just the previous Star Wars movies being fanwanked, Harry Potter got into there too. The light sabre chooses the Jedi … Who doesn’t think Rey is Luke’s daughter? Somebody please tell me “BB-8” doesn’t mean “Bowling Balls stacked into a figure 8”. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/299 "2015-12-20T23:08:08Z")
A couple things I don’t understand: Kylo Ren is not a Sith name. When Anakin was training but being influenced by Sidious, he was still using his regular name. As soon as Sidious took him officially as an apprentice, he gave him the name Darth Vader. Why isn’t Kylo Ren a Darth something? And Snoke too, why is he Supreme Leader instead of Darth Snoke? So the Republic is in place, there’s a Senate, and basically the First Order is the remnants of the old Empire. But it still acts as if its the law in the galaxy. First, there’s a “Resistance”. They’re in power now, shouldn’t they be the military, hunting down the First Order wherever they are? In fact, other than the Resistance, you don’t see anyone really fighting the First Order. Where are the Republic’s army? They can’t have forgotten about the First Order seeing as how they’re building Starkillers and blowing up planets again. Does anyone else feel that the weirdo electric weapon that Stormtrooper used to fight Finn when he was using Luke’s lightsaber diminishes the lightsaber as a super powerful and cool weapon? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2015, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/300 "2015-12-20T23:18:42Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > R > > 1. Who doesn’t think Rey is Luke’s daughter? > > 2. Somebody please tell me “BB-8” doesn’t mean “Bowling Balls stacked into a figure 8”. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > A couple things I don’t understand: > > 1. Kylo Ren is not a Sith name. When Anakin was training but being influenced by Sidious, he was still using his regular name. As soon as Sidious took him officially as an apprentice, he gave him the name Darth Vader. Why isn’t Kylo Ren a Darth something? And Snoke too, why is he Supreme Leader instead of Darth Snoke? > > 2. Does anyone else feel that the weirdo electric weapon that Stormtrooper used to fight Finn when he was using Luke’s lightsaber diminishes the lightsaber as a super powerful and cool weapon? 1. I do. “The light saber was Darth Vaders, then Luke Skywalkers, now it has chosen you,” or something like that. 2. I do think they got the 8 from his shape, but not the bowling ball part. Not sure. 3. They are not Sith as far as I can tell. More like force users not officially alligned in the Sith religion. They don’t use “Darth”. I still think Kylo comes from "Skywalker-Solo), using part of the letters. 4. They did have electric sticks to fight in Episode III. However, I do think that Finn should be able to use a light saber to break through the enemy weapon if he pushes hard enough, just to establish it is superior. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=16)