# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/441 "2015-12-22T16:08:35Z")
> [@iLemming](#): > > Han netting his ship, for example, may well have been explained. But the manner in which it was explained felt unsatisfying: Was the MF invisible (literally and for radar) while docked out in the open air on Tatooine v2.0? Why would a smuggler not have gotten word of his belovëd ship through the black market grape vine when it was being hocked by a peddler? Han ‘happening’ to find it, seemingly immediately (again, the timelines in the film are nebulous, to say the least – another issue) upon its first voyage back into space in decades, is alone a hard plot device to swallow… :rolleyes: This is another one I paid more attention to on a second viewing, and there was a line about how the Falcon is an easy ship to track, or something. So I think the implication is that it was hard for Han and Chewie to find as long as it was on the ground (and there was another line about how they should have kept looking on that planet), but once it was in the air it showed up on their scopes in some fashion. Which just brings us back to the “everything in the galaxy is always in sensor (and visible) range of everything else in the galaxy” issue, but that one I have no justification for at all. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/442 "2015-12-22T16:12:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I still don’t get your criticism of Finn, and especially the accent thing. None of what you describe fits the movie as I remember. Agreed. **iLemming** ’s borderline-racist remarks about Finn are just bizarre. It’s like he had a narrative in mind and then twisted everything that happened to fit into that narrative. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/443 "2015-12-22T16:19:16Z")
Saw it last night with no spoilers and had watched no previews. I was very impressed, 2 hours went by like nothing and I was totally absorbed in the movie. I had to remember where I was after the movie was over. It’s a really great action movie and a really great Star Wars movie, Abrams captured the look and feel and most of the humor of the original movies. Much better than the Star Trek remake/reboot IMO. Almost everything was good, which makes the occasional bad aspect stick out a little more. Much of the humor relied on repeating/referring to the original 3 movies. For example I guess it’s nice in a nostalgic way that Han Solo said “I’ve got a bad feeling about this” but was it really necessary? What’s the odds that in the entire galaxy the Falcon is on Rae’s planet and that she, with the map to Luke, steals it just as Han shows up to reclaim it? Very forced plot point but I was glad to see Han fairly early in any event. And the big Death Planet or whatever it was seemed a bit silly, I had to work a little to suspend my disbelief. Are the bad guys just going to keep building bigger and bigger ships/weapons? I thought Han’s son was a weird looking dork and not that great of a bad guy once the mask came off. I knew as soon as Han walked out on the long narrow bridge with no railings (where is OSHA?) to confront his son that the son would betray him. I didn’t buy the son’s tears and breakdown although I do think maybe he was conflicted. Sorry I haven’t read the whole 9 pages, but was it ever explained why 3PO had a red arm, and was it hinted that Rae somehow related to Luke (daughter maybe?) ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/444 "2015-12-22T16:27:21Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > When Ben Solo took off his mask I thought, “Whoa! Vinnie Barbarino went to the dark side!”. > > I couldn’t have been the only one. I thought it was [Andy Samberg](http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTM1ODAwMDc2NF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjUzNzg3MQ@@._V1_UY317_CR14,0,214,317_AL_.jpg) for a moment. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/445 "2015-12-22T16:34:26Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > She had to give him the lightsaber because that’s how these quests work. You go into the dungeon, find the plot coupon, and present it to the next quest giver to close out your quest and get some decent armor you can sell for a few credits. For anyone who has played Skyrim, that whole scene reminded me very much of the walk up to High Hrothgar to see the Greybeards. Except there was just one greybeard. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/446 "2015-12-22T16:38:06Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > Saw it last night with no spoilers and had watched no previews. I was very impressed, 2 hours went by like nothing and I was totally absorbed in the movie. I had to remember where I was after the movie was over. > > It’s a really great action movie and a really great Star Wars movie, Abrams captured the look and feel and most of the humor of the original movies. Much better than the Star Trek remake/reboot IMO. > > Almost everything was good, which makes the occasional bad aspect stick out a little more. Much of the humor relied on repeating/referring to the original 3 movies. For example I guess it’s nice in a nostalgic way that Han Solo said “I’ve got a bad feeling about this” but was it really necessary? What’s the odds that in the entire galaxy the Falcon is on Rae’s planet and that she, with the map to Luke, steals it just as Han shows up to reclaim it? Very forced plot point but I was glad to see Han fairly early in any event. And the big Death Planet or whatever it was seemed a bit silly, I had to work a little to suspend my disbelief. Are the bad guys just going to keep building bigger and bigger ships/weapons? > > I thought Han’s son was a weird looking dork and not that great of a bad guy once the mask came off. I knew as soon as Han walked out on the long narrow bridge with no railings (where is OSHA?) to confront his son that the son would betray him. I didn’t buy the son’s tears and breakdown although I do think maybe he was conflicted. > Sorry I haven’t read the whole 9 pages, but was it ever explained why 3PO had a red arm, and was it hinted that Rae somehow related to Luke (daughter maybe?) The film-makers leave it a deliberate mystery who Rey’s parents were. They spend half the movie dropping hints she’s Han and Leia’s daughter, and the other half dropping hints she is Luke’s daughter (mother unknown). No doubt her parentage will be a major plot-point in the upcoming next movie. My own favorite theory is that she is Luke’s daughter, but he never knew it - he left before he found out her mom was pregnant; and that her mom left her on that planet because she was being chased by bad guys, who then killed or captured her. My less-favorite theory is: split the difference - she is Luke’s and Leia’s daughter. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/447 "2015-12-22T16:44:02Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I haven’t really noticed anyone pulling anything from Wookieepedia. What is it you missed? Heck, I didn’t even get some of the names. Spode or whatever? Was that the Supreme Commander or whatever? I didn’t catch anyone using his name. Was that from the credits? Ben/Obi-Ren? There may have been others. I didn’t even really catch the whole “who is winning” backstory - and still don’t. Are we to assume the good guys have a dominant position, despite the bad guys being able to weaponize an entire planet? And why did they blow up those 5 planets, instead of the one where the fighters were? There has been some discussion in this thread (which I did not follow) about where “the fleet” is. So are these only minor battles within some huge overarching struggle? Because I don’t get any of that. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/448 "2015-12-22T16:48:30Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > I haven’t really noticed anyone pulling anything from Wookieepedia. What is it you missed? You obviously missed a page worth of static because I didn’t immediately recognize the difference between this group of Stormtroopers, TIE fighters, dark-helmeted laser-sword wizards and Planet Sized War Spheres and the last group of Stormtroopers, TIE fighters, dark-helmeted laser-sword wizards and Planet Sized War Spheres 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/449 "2015-12-22T17:08:31Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And why did they blow up those 5 planets, instead of the one where the fighters were? > There has been some discussion in this thread (which I did not follow) about where “the fleet” is. > > So are these only minor battles within some huge overarching struggle? Because I don’t get any of that. I think this is the biggest problem with the movie; these are important questions which serve to explain why the characters want to take action. From reading ancillary material after watching the movie, here’s what I gathered: Post _Return of the Jedi_ the Rebellion and the Empire continued to battle for a while, but the Rebellion prevailed in a major fleet action near Jakku and the two sides then entered into a treaty. The Rebellion then established the New Republic, which is large but not the galaxy-spanning behemoth that the Old Republic or Empire were - there are a lot of various regional powers out there. It’s not clear whether the First Order encompasses all of the old Imperial forces/territory or if it’s just one of many such groups, but they’re not technically at war with the New Republic as the movie begins. Leia thinks that the Empire generally and the First Order in particular are serious threats which ought to be opposed, but there’s not a lot of appetite within the New Republic for a new galactic war. The Resistance is a group which is fighting the First Order’s territorial ambitions in the corner of the galaxy they are in, and at Leia’s urging, the New Republic is funding the ostensibly separate Resistance with ships, money, and advisors. It’s not clear whether they’re doing this overtly or secretly, but this is what General Hux is going on about in his maniacal rant. The planets that the Starkiller Base blows up are the habitable worlds in the Hosnian system, which is the capital of the New Republic and apparently where most of their war fleet is based. As such the First Order is both declaring war against the New Republic and hoping for a political/military decapitation strike at the same time. Whether or not this actually makes a ton of sense, it’s coherent enough. But there is really no way that just watching the movie will let you know that this is what is going on. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/450 "2015-12-22T17:09:36Z")
> [@iLemming](#): > > for the sake of pushing some SJW agenda… that’s all. There it is. Maybe you’d be more comfortable back at 4chan, or r/KotakuInAction. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/451 "2015-12-22T17:09:44Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > If that’s what’s intended, it’s undercut by the extent to which he does things that we’ve never see a force user do before, seemingly effortlessly… stopping a blaster bolt, very aggressive force choking, etc. He certainly does far more with the force than we ever saw Luke do, pre- or post- Yoda. The blaster bolt was new, but I think there’s an argument to be made that his “aggressive force choking” is a less sophisticated use of telekenisis than Vader’s force choke was. Vader could shut off someone’s airway from across a radio channel. Kylo has to physically pull guys to him to get his hand on their windpipe. Stopping the blaster bolt mid air was new (and very cool), but I think the idea that someone who is untrained or partially trained in the Force can use some powers more effectively than other powers is an established part of the setting. > [@](#): > > Another interesting data point: when he tried to force-grab the other light sabre after defeating Finn, not only did Rey end up grabbing it away from him, but it looked like he could barely get it to move at all. Maybe he’d just “used up” all his Force-ing by tossing Rey through the air like kindling a few minutes earlier, while already severely injured? My take on that was that they were both trying to grab it at the same time, and it didn’t move until one of them won the struggle. But I think there’s something to the idea that he was just exhausted at that point, physically and mentally, and couldn’t summon his Force powers as easily as he could when he’s rested and unharmed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/452 "2015-12-22T17:13:26Z")
> [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](#): > > I think this is the biggest problem with the movie; these are important questions which serve to explain why the characters want to take action. > > From reading ancillary material after watching the movie, here’s what I gathered: > > Post _Return of the Jedi_ the Rebellion and the Empire continued to battle for a while, but the Rebellion prevailed in a major fleet action near Jakku and the two sides then entered into a treaty. The Rebellion then established the New Republic, which is large but not the galaxy-spanning behemoth that the Old Republic or Empire were - there are a lot of various regional powers out there. It’s not clear whether the First Order encompasses all of the old Imperial forces/territory or if it’s just one of many such groups, but they’re not technically at war with the New Republic as the movie begins. > > Leia thinks that the Empire generally and the First Order in particular are serious threats which ought to be opposed, but there’s not a lot of appetite within the New Republic for a new galactic war. The Resistance is a group which is fighting the First Order’s territorial ambitions in the corner of the galaxy they are in, and at Leia’s urging, the New Republic is funding the ostensibly separate Resistance with ships, money, and advisors. It’s not clear whether they’re doing this overtly or secretly, but this is what General Hux is going on about in his maniacal rant. The planets that the Starkiller Base blows up are the habitable worlds in the Hosnian system, which is the capital of the New Republic and apparently where most of their war fleet is based. As such the First Order is both declaring war against the New Republic and hoping for a political/military decapitation strike at the same time. > > Whether or not this actually makes a ton of sense, it’s coherent enough. But there is really no way that just watching the movie will let you know that this is what is going on. This is pretty much my assumption, too, although I’m hoping that Hosnian was a regional power center being used as a staging ground for moving aid to the Resistance, and not the seat of the Republic government. I do wonder who owns Coruscant these days. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/453 "2015-12-22T17:14:48Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > The “map” part was kind of funny to me, mainly the line connecting all the planets leading to Luke. Wouldn’t you just need the one secret Jedi hideout planet to be highlighted? As was (combined with the 2D nature of the map) it looked like “Ok, so you’re going to take I-77 to 340, get off westbound and stay on it for seventeen light years until you hit the Pordesoron exchange…” C-3PO comments that the area the map depicts doesn’t match any maps in their database, presumably because it’s outside of Republic space in a little-traveled area of the galaxy. If you needed to get to the Cleveland Public Library, it wouldn’t do you any good to have a road map of Cleveland unless you knew where Cleveland was and how to get there in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/454 "2015-12-22T17:19:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The blaster bolt was new, but I think there’s an argument to be made that his “aggressive force choking” is a less sophisticated use of telekenisis than Vader’s force choke was. Vader could shut off someone’s airway from across a radio channel. Kylo has to physically pull guys to him to get his hand on their windpipe. Well, obviously the actual answer is that JJ Abrams wanted us to see force users to doing cool and spectacular things… we’ve seen force chokes, so let’s see more awesome force chokes. But it certainly made it feel like “this guy is powerful” as opposed to “this guy is so untrained that he can only do big bulky things not subtle things like Vader could”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/455 "2015-12-22T17:23:30Z")
When I say “There’s an argument to be made…” what I mean is “I can fanwank that.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/456 "2015-12-22T17:24:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > C-3PO comments that the area the map depicts doesn’t match any maps in their database, presumably because it’s outside of Republic space in a little-traveled area of the galaxy. If you needed to get to the Cleveland Public Library, it wouldn’t do you any good to have a road map of Cleveland unless you knew where Cleveland was and how to get there in the first place. Except traveling throughout Cleveland actually requires roads on a two dimensional plane and thus a map with “turn left here, turn right there” directions makes sense. Less so when discussing mostly empty three-dimensional space. Here’s the point of light we’re at, here’s the point of light we’re headed to, hopefully you can manage to avoid any planets or stars in the big vast void of space along the way. If interstellar travel required wormholes or something it might make more sense. But, from what I can tell, in Star Wars you can go into and drop out of hyperspace pretty much at will. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/457 "2015-12-22T17:29:02Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > If interstellar travel required wormholes or something it might make more sense. But, from what I can tell, in Star Wars you can go into and drop out of hyperspace pretty much at will. In the old EU it was explicitly stated that there are “hyperspace routes” which are known to be safe and which almost all FTL traffic goes through. Theoretically you could just point yourself in any direction and be off, but if there happens to be a star in between you and your destination you’re not going to be able to hit the brakes in time. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/458 "2015-12-22T17:30:20Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In the old EU it was explicitly stated… Oh, well, of course then 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/459 "2015-12-22T17:31:56Z")
The lines on the map might not be, “Here’s how you get to this planet,” so much as, “Here’s the route Luke took when he went to look for the first Jedi temple.” Actually, the whole map thing makes a bit more sense if you assume that it’s not a map so much as Luke’s hyperspace logs. People following him don’t have to trace that exact route, hitting all the planets that didn’t have the Jedi temple on it - they can just travel directly to the end point. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/460 "2015-12-22T17:32:27Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > When Ben Solo took off his mask I thought, “Whoa! Vinnie Barbarino went to the dark side!”. > > I couldn’t have been the only one. [I thought he looked like Max Landis.](http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/max-landis.jpg) > [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > My biggest disappointment was the CGI characters all looking horribly CGI. They looked like cartoons on the screen. None of them seemed real. I know Maz was CGI and obviously, the monster on the freighter was, but what other characters were computer created? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=24)