# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/461 "2015-12-22T17:41:23Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I know Maz was CGI and obviously, the monster on the freighter was, but what other characters were computer created? Snoke, for one. I suspect a lot of the junk vendor’s animations were CGI, although I’ve seen pictures of Simon Pegg in costume on set, so he wasn’t entirely digital. At least some of the creatures in the cantina were probably CGI, too. [Not all of them,](http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/zck4wkfx17lqpge9c8ia.jpg) but I’ll bet that trio of mosquito looking dudes were pure CGI. Not that I’m complaining about the quality of the effects myself, which I thought were superb. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/462 "2015-12-22T17:43:06Z")
For those curious, here is the earliest discussion I can find for Phantom Menace, which was discussed upon DVD release. [Phantom Menace: The Results are in](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=20348&highlight=phantom+menace) [Here is our discussion of Attack of the Clones](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=115642&highlight=attack+clones) And, yes, here is our Revenge of the Sith thread. [Revenge of the Sith](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=317279&highlight=revenge+sith) Basically, we thought Phantom Menace blew. Attack of the Clones sucked. We were nicer to Sith, though I now think it is about 70% suckage. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/463 "2015-12-22T17:44:09Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Snoke, for one. I suspect a lot of the junk vendor’s animations were CGI, although I’ve seen pictures of Simon Pegg in costume on set, so he wasn’t entirely digital. > > At least some of the creatures in the cantina were probably CGI, too. [Not all of them,](http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/zck4wkfx17lqpge9c8ia.jpg) but I’ll bet that trio of mosquito looking dudes were pure CGI. > > Not that I’m complaining about the quality of the effects myself, which I thought were superb. Snoke, of course. I apparently blanked out. However, I would guess most of the cantina folks are costumes. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/464 "2015-12-22T17:47:12Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The blaster bolt was new, but I think there’s an argument to be made that his “aggressive force choking” is a less sophisticated use of telekenisis than Vader’s force choke was. Vader could shut off someone’s airway from across a radio channel. Kylo has to physically pull guys to him to get his hand on their windpipe. > > Stopping the blaster bolt mid air was new (and very cool), but I think the idea that someone who is untrained or partially trained in the Force can use some powers more effectively than other powers is an established part of the setting. > > My take on that was that they were both trying to grab it at the same time, and it didn’t move until one of them won the struggle. But I think there’s something to the idea that he was just exhausted at that point, physically and mentally, and couldn’t summon his Force powers as easily as he could when he’s rested and unharmed. I don’t know man, that’s a tough sell. Watching Kylo battle two different people who had never seen a lightsaber before, I couldn’t help but think he should be mopping the floor with these clowns. Kylo presumably has some fairly high level of training, even if he’s not finished. Certainly more than a few days in the swamp with Yoda, at the very least. That Rey was able to 1) use the force as strong or stronger than Kylo and 2) hold her own with a weapon she’d never laid eyes on was just a bit much. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/465 "2015-12-22T17:55:52Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I don’t know man, that’s a tough sell. Watching Kylo battle two different people who had never seen a lightsaber before, I couldn’t help but think he should be mopping the floor with these clowns. Kylo presumably has some fairly high level of training, even if he’s not finished. Level of _training?_ Who cares? What matters is, _what’s his midichlorian count?_ [/ducks and runs] ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/466 "2015-12-22T18:08:30Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > In the old EU it was explicitly stated that there are “hyperspace routes” which are known to be safe and which almost all FTL traffic goes through. Theoretically you could just point yourself in any direction and be off, but if there happens to be a star in between you and your destination you’re not going to be able to hit the brakes in time. Not just in the EU. I seem to recall some minor character or other in the original film talking about how “without precise calculations, you could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova.” After all, traveling through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops! Wonder whatever happened to that guy? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/467 "2015-12-22T18:13:14Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I don’t know man, that’s a tough sell. Watching Kylo battle two different people who had never seen a lightsaber before, I couldn’t help but think he should be mopping the floor with these clowns. Kylo presumably has some fairly high level of training, even if he’s not finished. Certainly more than a few days in the swamp with Yoda, at the very least. > > That Rey was able to 1) use the force as strong or stronger than Kylo and 2) hold her own with a weapon she’d never laid eyes on was just a bit much. I took it that he was hurt (badly) AND very conflicted, so he wasn’t firing on all the dark side of the force cylinders for that fight. He’d just killed his father, which I think HE thought would put him over the top, but in fact looked to me to have conflicted him even more. He then is fighting with what is basically a trained soldier, and while he beats him, it’s no push over. Then he meets someone who, while untrained in the force seems every bit as strong (and maybe stronger) than he is in their force on force confrontation, which additionally shakes him. I found that fight scene fairly plausible, personally, with all that going on. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/468 "2015-12-22T18:13:17Z")
for bad CGI characters- The Supreme Commander looked like Voldemort CGI in early Harry Potter movies. Orange glasses woman looked only one or two detail renderings beyond what I’d see on Rebels on DisneyXD, same with the junk vendor on Jakku and the large cantina dude who was chilling with the First Order spy. Those were the one that jumped out at me. > [@XT](#): > > I took it that he was hurt (badly) AND very conflicted, so he wasn’t firing on all the dark side of the force cylinders for that fight. He’d just killed his father, which I think HE thought would put him over the top, but in fact looked to me to have conflicted him even more. He then is fighting with what is basically a trained soldier, and while he beats him, it’s no push over. Then he meets someone who, while untrained in the force seems every bit as strong (and maybe stronger) than he is in their force on force confrontation, which additionally shakes him. > > I found that fight scene fairly plausible, personally, with all that going on. I agree. Kylo is not meant to be a bad ass. I think it would have been a little better for Kylo to be toying with Finn for a lot of the fight, but starting to wear down until Finn gets a lucky shot in (which would be another call back to the original trilogy where Vader literally fights Luke one-handed and is just messing with him, until Luke gets in a hit and Vader obviously thinks “oh shit” and goes two-handed to finish out the fight) and then have Kylo take out Finn handedly. Also… totally would have been okay with Finn dying as well. He had an arc and it would have really established that all safetys were off. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/469 "2015-12-22T18:15:35Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I don’t know man, that’s a tough sell. Watching Kylo battle two different people who had never seen a lightsaber before, I couldn’t help but think he should be mopping the floor with these clowns. It is funny, because even tho I have quite a bit of experience w/ MA including fencing, I’m able to overlook this silliness, simply because it happens so often. As an experienced fighter standing there with a sword you know how to use, you would LOVE to have someone running at you screaming while brandishing a weapon overhead, telegraphing the hell out of their roundhouse attack. Kill the amateur and move on to the next. Hell, you wouldn’t even need to block the first strike. And even if you did, you sure wouldn’t have any reason to simply maintain the block as though you were going to power through it. Thanks for the history lesson **Ambrosio.** ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/470 "2015-12-22T18:19:36Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > It is funny, because even tho I have quite a bit of experience w/ MA including fencing, I’m able to overlook this silliness, simply because it happens so often. > > As an experienced fighter standing there with a sword you know how to use, you would LOVE to have someone running at you screaming while brandishing a weapon overhead, telegraphing the hell out of their roundhouse attack. Kill the amateur and move on to the next. Hell, you wouldn’t even need to block the first strike. And even if you did, you sure wouldn’t have any reason to simply maintain the block as though you were going to power through it. > > Thanks for the history lesson **Ambrosio.** To paraphrase, the worlds best swordsman doesn’t fear the second best swordsman, he fears the worst, because the worst is so unpredictable. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/471 "2015-12-22T18:26:19Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I agree. Kylo is not meant to be a bad ass. They could’ve named him _Wan Nabé._ ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/472 "2015-12-22T18:27:46Z")
I think I wrote a better movie just now, because I can’t wrap my mind around how Ben Solo becomes Kylo Ren. Does he not know that Vader turned back to the light side? Did Luke, Han and Leia leave that out of the story? Couldn’t Luke conjure up the ghost of Hayden Christensen to help set things straight for young Solo? The way the movie should have gone. Luke’s lightsaber was found at Cloud City. So was his hand. Vader and the Emperor found the hand, someone else found the lightsaber. The Emperor secretly uses the hand to clone Luke as a backup in case things don’t work out on Death Star II. This leads us to… Kylo Ren takes off his mask while interrogating Rey and reveals…young Luke Skywalker!!! (This could be pulled off with CGI, right?) Everyone falls out of their seats in the theatre. But alas, I was not consulted and to be fair, I do generally like the movie. There are just some things I’m having a hard time putting together. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/473 "2015-12-22T18:28:23Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > The Supreme Commander looked like Voldemort CGI in early Harry Potter movies. > Orange glasses woman looked only one or two detail renderings beyond what I’d see on Rebels on DisneyXD, same with the junk vendor on Jakku and the large cantina dude who was chilling with the First Order spy. Hard to say for sure, but I think the big dude with the First Order spy was a practical effect. At least, [this looks like a set photo](http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/05/01/5543ca95db753b82389cbd94_vanity-fair-star-wars-02.jpg), and not a computer creation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/474 "2015-12-22T18:33:38Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Luke’s lightsaber was found at Cloud City. So was his hand. Vader and the Emperor found the hand, someone else found the lightsaber. The Emperor secretly uses the hand to clone Luke as a backup in case things don’t work out on Death Star II. This leads us to… > > Kylo Ren takes off his mask while interrogating Rey and reveals…young Luke Skywalker!!! (This could be pulled off with CGI, right?) Complete with Mark Hamill doing the Joker voice? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/475 "2015-12-22T18:33:57Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > I think I wrote a better movie just now, because I can’t wrap my mind around how Ben Solo becomes Kylo Ren. Does he not know that Vader turned back to the light side? Did Luke, Han and Leia leave that out of the story? Couldn’t Luke conjure up the ghost of Hayden Christensen to help set things straight for young Solo? The way the movie should have gone. Luke, Leia, and Han are in the top three slots of “People in the galaxy Kylo Ren wants to kill.” Presumably, he doesn’t put a whole lot of stock in what they told him about Vader. > [@](#): > > Kylo Ren takes off his mask while interrogating Rey and reveals…young Luke Skywalker!!! (This could be pulled off with CGI, right?) Everyone falls out of their seats in the theatre. They tried that in the Tron sequel, and it didn’t work out so great. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/476 "2015-12-22T18:34:49Z")
double post ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/477 "2015-12-22T18:36:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hard to say for sure, but I think the big dude with the First Order spy was a practical effect. At least, [this looks like a set photo](http://photos.vanityfair.com/2015/05/01/5543ca95db753b82389cbd94_vanity-fair-star-wars-02.jpg), and not a computer creation. Of course as soon as I posted that, I saw an image of some of the new cantina folks hanging out in costume including that guy. I think it may be a case of them “sweetening” the character’s face with CG. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/478 "2015-12-22T18:38:33Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And why did they blow up those 5 planets, instead of the one where the fighters were? > There has been some discussion in this thread (which I did not follow) about where “the fleet” is. > > So are these only minor battles within some huge overarching struggle? Because I don’t get any of that. There was a line by the New Order guys after the good guys left the bar and went to the rebel base that “we tracked them back to their base,” implying they didn’t know where the base was when they fired the first time. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/479 "2015-12-22T18:39:07Z")
So one of my friends is seeing The Force Awakens for the first time today and he puts on Facebook, during the trailers: > [@](#): > > Moral of the previews: The CGI gets better. The plots never change. Oh, the irony… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jimmycolorado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@jimmycolorado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmycolorado)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/480 "2015-12-22T18:47:17Z")
I liked it, most folks have summed up the good parts and the not-so-good parts better than I could. I will say, on the Snoke reveal, I was actually kinda frightened. I was like, “WOW that guy’s HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE!” Then it ended up being a holographic projection and I had the same thought as everyone else, “ah hah, I bet he’s really tiny!” But then I immediately imagined, “wouldn’t it be cool if… he was even bigger?” Like, that’s a reveal in Ep VIII, our heroes storm the space castle (up a bean stalk), confront Snoke, and he’s 40 ft tall haha [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=25)