# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/541 "2015-12-22T23:15:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Except most of the skills that earn Rey the label of “Mary Sue” are things that she explicitly knew how to do before the movie started. Piloting, repair, and fighting are all things she already knows how to do before we first meet her in the movie. If Bond isn’t a Mary Sue because he’s got a backstory to explain how he has those skills (and that doesn’t actually disqualify him from “Mary Sue” status, but whatever) then Rey should be granted the same license. > > Which leaves us with her Force powers. And what are those powers? She mind tricks a Stormtrooper - who are famously weak-willed - and she levitates a foot long piece of metal. Neither of these are exceptional feats of Force ability, and most importantly, she does both _immediately after Ren uses those powers against her._ Is that “too fast” for her to pick up those powers? Who can say? It doesn’t seem that much faster than Luke picked up his. He was blocking blaster bolts blindfolded after about three minutes of conversation with Ben, and that was the whole sum of his training before he blew up the Death Star. I would also argue that the levitating the lightsabre thing isn’t necessarily because of her superior force skills. The latter is at least partly because that object is ‘rightfully’ hers - her connection to it is established earlier, when she first finds it: for whatever reason, she has a bond with it (that explains why she could move it, while Han Solo Jr. can’t). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/542 "2015-12-22T23:19:41Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Here is the fundamental problem with Rey: She only works as a character if you’re wiling to engage in some epic-level making-stuff-up-in-your-head. In the post I made just before yours, I lay out my argument for why I feel that Rey’s level of competence is naratively justified. Can you point to the specific parts you feel I made up? Because I’m pretty sure every thing there comes straight off the screen. > [@Malthus](#): > > I would also argue that the levitating the lightsabre thing isn’t necessarily because of her superior force skills. > > The latter is at least partly because that object is ‘rightfully’ hers - her connection to it is established earlier, when she first finds it: for whatever reason, she has a bond with it (that explains why she could move it, while Han Solo Jr. can’t). Kylo couldn’t move it because he and Rey were trying to move it at the same time, and she’s simply stronger in the Force than he is. I don’t think it has anything to do with her being bonded to the lightsaber. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/543 "2015-12-22T23:23:48Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So, you can’t imagine why they would cast a black actor in the role, except as a sop to black audiences? And what “ghetto” accent? He spoke standard, American accented English - nothing even remotely close to a “ghetto” accent. > > That’s a… pretty unusual take on the character. You seem to have an astoundingly low - almost Victorian - bar for “lechery,” given the exceedingly tame amount of flirting the character engaged in. And “cowardly” is just bizarre as a criticism. Yeah…given the tone of that whole post, I wonder if the bar is as low for characters who aren’t “Afro-Americans”. :dubious: > [@Jragon](#): > > Again, [I’m not sure you want to go down the road of criticizing this movie for being formulaic](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gUKYBs6T8c) I’ll go down that road. It’s one thing to riff on a pastiche of influences that most viewers of the film are not directly familiar with (although I was disappointed to learn recently that Quentin Tarantino ripped the entire plot of _Reservoir Dogs_ from a single Japanese film), or to use a John Campbell mythology framework. It’s another to just hit the reset button (after doing so in _Return of the Jedi_ once already). Lazy, lazy, lazy. > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Did anyone else have a flashback to the 70s when you saw Poe Dameron? The first thing I thought when I saw him was that he looks almost exactly like the guy from the movie Airplane. After the movie I looked it up, and the actor that he reminded me of is Robert Hays in the role of Ted Striker. I just found it weird that the two male leads of _Ex Machina_ were both in this, both out of their comfort zones and unconvincing as baddies IMO. As for what I thought when Rylo Kiley took his mask off, I thought “wow, he looks just like Adam from _Girls_, and talks just like him too. Weird, and kinda creepy in a goofy sort of way; but not really menacing in the traditional sense.” ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/544 "2015-12-22T23:31:46Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Here is the fundamental problem with Rey: She only works as a character if you’re wiling to engage in some epic-level making-stuff-up-in-your-head. If you don’t, then she basically turns into a massive plot device. It’s even worse because all her character bits are front-loaded, so she becomes remarkably dull in the second half of the movie, exactly when she suddenly gains multiple superpowers. > > This movie simply does not stand on its own. I honestly don’t think it can stand on its own as a film. This is fanservice with a half-billion in marketing behind it. IN the end, the movie is entertaining, but not fulfilling. It’s a solid popcorn film, but that’s also not some amazing feat of daring. The current metacritic use score of 7.4 feels about right to me: good, but it’s not going to leave any lasting impression. Yeah, kind of like Luke in Episode 4… Totally disagree with your assessment, though I think your ‘This movie simply does not stand on its own’ comment is just laughable…none of them stood on their own, they all stood on the shoulders of either previous movies in the series or other movies that they drew inspiration from. It’s funny to me to see folks nitpicking the movie with stuff like this. Oh well, if everyone felt the same about everything, where would the fun in that be?? 😛 To me, this movie is at least as good as Empire Strikes back, and perhaps after I see it again in a few days I might put it up there with the first one. It’s certainly better than anything that came after Empire, and it brings back the excitement of the original trilogy. I was watching a review earlier and the guy brought up something that really made me nod. Most people today are viewing the movies through the lens of the complete story arc…they didn’t see the original movie when it first came out at the theater, they saw it when they could pop the movies into their VCR and see at least the first 3. This new movie is the beginning of a new story arc, and folks are trying to judge it before we know where that story arc is going…which is just silly. Certainly we can compare it to the original movies and even the disastrous prequels, but the real judge of this movie is going to be in how it relates to the new story that hasn’t unfolded yet. If the follow on movies reinforce the new arc then this movie will be a classic. If not, it’s still a good solid movie, but it will not ever be as strong. Time will tell. Personally, I’m looking forward to the next movie…which says it all, right there. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/545 "2015-12-22T23:35:53Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Here is the fundamental problem with Rey: She only works as a character if you’re wiling to engage in some epic-level making-stuff-up-in-your-head. If you don’t, then she basically turns into a massive plot device. It’s even worse because all her character bits are front-loaded, so she becomes remarkably dull in the second half of the movie, exactly when she suddenly gains multiple superpowers. > > This movie simply does not stand on its own. Heh. Could you imagine if PHANTOM MENACE was the only movie in the series you’d ever seen? _“Wait, so the little slave kid who speaks multiple languages is, what, eight or nine, and he’s built a droid? And he’s a champion pilot? And with no Jedi training, he aces the Tell-Me-What-I-See-On-This-Monitor test? And he fires the torpedo to shut down the whole army? And though he’s the wrong age to join up, they make an exception 'cos he’s the bestest ever? And, like, The End?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Nuveena](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a587f6/32.png) [@Nuveena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nuveena)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/546 "2015-12-22T23:37:26Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Not just in the EU. I seem to recall some minor character or other in the original film talking about how “without precise calculations, you could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova.” After all, traveling through hyperspace ain’t like dusting crops! > > Wonder whatever happened to that guy? 🙂 Too soon! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/547 "2015-12-22T23:41:38Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah, kind of like Luke in Episode 4… > > Totally disagree with your assessment, though I think your ‘This movie simply does not stand on its own’ comment is just laughable…none of them stood on their own, they all stood on the shoulders of either previous movies in the series or other movies that they drew inspiration from. It’s funny to me to see folks nitpicking the movie with stuff like this. Oh well, if everyone felt the same about everything, where would the fun in that be?? 😛 To me, this movie is at least as good as Empire Strikes back, and perhaps after I see it again in a few days I might put it up there with the first one. It’s certainly better than anything that came after Empire, and it brings back the excitement of the original trilogy. I was watching a review earlier and the guy brought up something that really made me nod. Most people today are viewing the movies through the lens of the complete story arc…they didn’t see the original movie when it first came out at the theater, they saw it when they could pop the movies into their VCR and see at least the first 3. This new movie is the beginning of a new story arc, and folks are trying to judge it before we know where that story arc is going…which is just silly. Certainly we can compare it to the original movies and even the disastrous prequels, but the real judge of this movie is going to be in how it relates to the new story that hasn’t unfolded yet. If the follow on movies reinforce the new arc then this movie will be a classic. If not, it’s still a good solid movie, but it will not ever be as strong. Time will tell. Personally, I’m looking forward to the next movie…which says it all, right there. IMO, the main justified complaint about this movie was that it was a retread that didn’t take any risks. The main reason for optimism for the future movies, is that from now on, they are not going to be able to simply retread - they will have to take at least some plot risks. We will then see if they can keep the ‘authentic Star Wars flavour’ with a more-new plot … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/548 "2015-12-22T23:47:01Z")
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned it yet: I was disappointed that the writers decided to double down on the Kessel run parsec nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/549 "2015-12-22T23:50:15Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > IMO, the main justified complaint about this movie was that it was a retread that didn’t take any risks. > > The main reason for optimism for the future movies, is that from now on, they are not going to be able to simply retread - they will have to take at least some plot risks. > > We will then see if they can keep the ‘authentic Star Wars flavour’ with a more-new plot … 😃 The only part where (while watching the movie, and not nitpicking it to death later on) I felt there was a ‘retread’ was the Star Destroyer/Death Star Version3.0, and I was more engaged in what was going on with the characters than I was with what felt mostly bolted on to me. Other than that, though, I personally didn’t feel like I was in something that was just a retread of the earlier movies, but a continuation of the story, and one that opened up all sorts of questions (in a good way) about what was going on, what had gone on in the last 30(??) years, and where things were going. I think people who believe this is simply ‘the ‘authentic Star Wars flavour’ with a more-new plot’ are missing the movie I saw in their curmudgeonly pique at it not being whatever the hell it was they thought it was going to be. 😛 Since I didn’t go in with any preconceptions or expectations (having already flushed the follow on books out of my system when they said they were no long cannon), I was free to just sit back and enjoy the ride…and it was great. I feel a bit sorry for the folks who were so disappointed in this movie, since to me it’s like they had unrealistic expectations, as well as seemingly view the original movies through seriously rose colored glasses. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/550 "2015-12-22T23:51:15Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah, kind of like Luke in Episode 4… > > Totally disagree with your assessment, though I think your ‘This movie simply does not stand on its own’ comment is just laughable…none of them stood on their own, they all stood on the shoulders of either previous movies in the series or other movies that they drew inspiration from. You take the “Star Wars” title off this movie and it garners little more than a big Meh. It’s little more than a well marketed rehash to make a shitload of money. I think that’s what his point was, is that without the Star Wars name, the “Oh! It’s Han Solo again!” nostalgia, and all the baggage/extra-movie knowledge that people bring to it, it’s nothing more than an average movie that could easily be skipped. > [@XT](#): > > It’s funny to me to see folks nitpicking the movie with stuff like this. Oh well, if everyone felt the same about everything, where would the fun in that be?? 😛 To me, this movie is at least as good as Empire Strikes back, and perhaps after I see it again in a few days I might put it up there with the first one. It’s certainly better than anything that came after Empire, and it brings back the excitement of the original trilogy. I was watching a review earlier and the guy brought up something that really made me nod. Most people today are viewing the movies through the lens of the complete story arc…they didn’t see the original movie when it first came out at the theater, they saw it when they could pop the movies into their VCR and see at least the first 3. This new movie is the beginning of a new story arc, and folks are trying to judge it before we know where that story arc is going…which is just silly. Certainly we can compare it to the original movies and even the disastrous prequels, but the real judge of this movie is going to be in how it relates to the new story that hasn’t unfolded yet. If the follow on movies reinforce the new arc then this movie will be a classic. If not, it’s still a good solid movie, but it will not ever be as strong. Time will tell. To my viewing, very little of this movie is “new”. The characters are the same archetype as ever (with welcome changes to gender/race though), the plot is the same, and the “story” is the same. Of all the words to describe The Force Awakens, new would be very close to the bottom. Personally, I’m looking forward to the next movie…which says it all, right there. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/551 "2015-12-22T23:56:55Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > Wyldstyle in Lego Movie and Trinity in Matrix are the ones that jump to mind to me. I’ve not seen the Lego Movie, but I don’t remember Trinity getting less effective in the Matrix, only Neo getting more effective - after all, he was The One. Unless, of course, you are referring to the follow-on films which I have not seen. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2015, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/552 "2015-12-22T23:56:56Z")
> [@XT](#): > > The only part where (while watching the movie, and not nitpicking it to death later on) I felt there was a ‘retread’ was the Star Destroyer/Death Star Version3.0, and I was more engaged in what was going on with the characters than I was with what felt mostly bolted on to me. Other than that, though, I personally didn’t feel like I was in something that was just a retread of the earlier movies, but a continuation of the story, and one that opened up all sorts of questions (in a good way) about what was going on, what had gone on in the last 30(??) years, and where things were going. I think people who believe this is simply ‘the ‘authentic Star Wars flavour’ with a more-new plot’ are missing the movie I saw in their curmudgeonly pique at it not being whatever the hell it was they thought it was going to be. 😛 Since I didn’t go in with any preconceptions or expectations (having already flushed the follow on books out of my system when they said they were no long cannon), I was free to just sit back and enjoy the ride…and it was great. I feel a bit sorry for the folks who were so disappointed in this movie, since to me it’s like they had unrealistic expectations, as well as seemingly view the original movies through seriously rose colored glasses. Oh, I enjoyed the movie - don’t get me wrong on that score. But it is very much a retread of the first one, plotwise. Kid raised on a desert planet, as it turns out abandoned by true parents, meets up with mentors, develops mysterious powers, takes the side of good in an intergalactic struggle with an evil empire; a droid the kid finds carries secret plans sought by the evil empire; uses skills to help find the weak spot and blow up a massive killing machine built by the evil empire … The fact it was a retread did not stop me from enjoying it, though. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/553 "2015-12-23T00:04:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > In the post I made just before yours, I lay out my argument for why I feel that Rey’s level of competence is naratively justified. Can you point to the specific parts you feel I made up? Because I’m pretty sure every thing there comes straight off the screen. Alright. > [@](#): > > Except most of the skills that earn Rey the label of “Mary Sue” are things that she explicitly knew how to do before the movie started. Piloting, repair, and fighting are all things she already knows how to do before we first meet her in the movie. Repair, yes; the rest, not really. She is explicitly shown to know how to manage junk and says that she helped put the Falcon back together. (It would have been much better if she was shown actually working on it beforehand, but it’s something.) This really shouldn’t translate into "can figure out how to sabotage complex security systems, but I’ll take it. This part does not bother me. However, she explicitly says she doesn’t know how to fly, and is never shown to use anything more than what is basically the Star Wars version of a old truck. This would be fine, except that about ten seconds after flailing the Falcon around like a pancake with rockets, she’s dodging fighter-craft and flying through broken ships. She can also apparently whack people with a stick if they don’t actually fight back. The two thugs were apparently stupid enough to let her take them by surprise and ill-equipped enough that some junker with a stick beat them up. This is a far cry from defeating a trained warrior. However, this part was alright for me. I was willing to let that part go because I liked Rey as a character. In that sense, the movie worked perfectly; it glossed over slightly unbelievable points with god characterization. And thus far, Rey was actually my favorite character. > [@](#): > > Which leaves us with her Force powers. And what are those powers? She mind tricks a Stormtrooper - who are famously weak-willed - and she levitates a foot long piece of metal. Neither of these are exceptional feats of Force ability, and most importantly, she does both immediately after Ren uses those powers against her. It’s not that her feats are explicitly amazing. It’s that we’re never shown any reason to think she even knew they were possible. In all of these cases, we see Ren demonstrate something vaguely similar before Rey goes out and shows perfect command of that ability on a small scale. Do you see how it breaks the narrative flow to do this, especially because it’s not necessary to the plot? > [@](#): > > **Is that “too fast” for her to pick up those powers? Who can say**? It doesn’t seem that much faster than Luke picked up his. He was blocking blaster bolts blindfolded after about three minutes of conversation with Ben, and that was the whole sum of his training before he blew up the Death Star. Bolding mine, and here’s where audience invention becomes necessary for the plot to work. Because not only is that not the way I assumed it worked based on the movies, it’s explicitly not what the movies showed. With some time to practice, Luke was able to maybe feel the Force a little bit and possibly block a couple blaster shots from a remote he could hear moving around. He also couldn’t do it reliably, and he never used the Force in the entire first Star Wars movie until the very finale. Even then, that was with Ben’s guidance, telling him that the Force would help him time a single button-push. Several _years_ later, he was able to move a lightsaber. After training with Yoda for an indeterminate amount of time, he could pick up several rocks. Months after that, he was able to use the force to make a guard back down. And possibly he was even force-choking the guy, which would probably be some kind of telekinetic thing and not persuasion. Later on, he was able to defeat Vader (who utterly crushed him on Bespin and wasn’t even trying to kill him then) only by calling on the Dark Side in a rage. He had to stop himself before crossing that line, and even then was in no shape to defeat the Emperor. Luke had grown a great deal, but ultimately the victory wasn’t won by power, but by all the _weaknesses_ of the Light. It wasn’t Luke’s Ultimate Force mastery which won the day, but his compassion, forgiveness, and mercy. _Those_ were the weapons the Emperor could not defeat, even when Luke was writhing on the ground, dying by inches. Rey develops these powers in a matter of _hours_. And it just wasn’t necessary. Her developing Force abilities could be an entire plot on its own. She just kinda… levelled up and picked them from the feat table. How does she _know_ she can persuade a Stormtrooper, or that it’s even possible? Ren didn’t actually do that. How does she know she can pick up the lightsaber? She was trying to do it at the same time as Ren. You could maybe justify this when he used his power to hold her in place, once, but that’s a stretch. Even if she knew it was possible, instantly learning how to do it is a bit much. And then she suddenly fights and defeats Ren, despite him having already demonstrated he was much better. Fortunately, she took a moment in the middle of the fight to level up again and get Flurry and maybe Force Valor. Fortunately, levelling replenishes her hit points as well. It’s also somewhat problematic because in the second half of the plot, she stops really being a _character_. You could have sold this much better if she was shown trying her best to figure things out. Or at least, you could sell doing one of these things. I’m not sure _all_ of them would work, but it would have been a better plot for it. Again, this didn’t ruin the movie for me. I enjoyed it and have a new favorite character in Finn (with Poe not far behind). I can’t wait to see another film follow up with their exploits against the not-Empire. But I hope that when it does come out, the movie is better paced and doesn’t feel the need to rush characterization and up the “wow” factor without a good reason. Not everything has to be superhumans clashing with laserswords above exploding planets. And if I had to change one thing about the movie, it would be this: Rey should never have beaten Kylo Ren. She should have just barely held him off, with Chewie saving the day by showing up in the Falcon and blasting him. Ren would have been left as a powerful villain still more dangerous than the heroes, Chewie would have had a Big Damn Heroes moment, and we would have seen Rey as someone who clearly needs training and discipline if she ever stands a chance against him. (I’m making sarcastic references to the video game RPG _Knights of the Old Republic_ here and there, if some of this confused people.) ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/554 "2015-12-23T00:21:57Z")
Okay, I’ll grant this is “audience invention” to some degree, but Rey grew up in a universe filled with the tales of the Heroic Luke Skywalker and his Jedi Powers. I assume that even if the tales have been corrupted or embellished, she has a pretty good idea of the scope of what can be done with the force through stories. Including the mind trick and pulling the lightsaber to her. In the Original Trilogy it seemed like knowledge of the Force and Jedi were downplayed, if not outright suppressed. Luke looks like he’s being told about something he’s never heard of when told about the force. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/555 "2015-12-23T00:25:45Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I, for one, am hoping that Rey is of absolutely no significant parentage whatsoever. Seems to me that it makes for a much better story, and a much more interesting counterpoint to Luke’s tale, if Rey is just an orphan scavenger who is guided by the Force to greatness, than if she’s only who she is because her parents/grandparents were special. This marks the first time you and I are completely on the same page. Star Wars, bringing people together. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/556 "2015-12-23T00:27:50Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Well, it’s better than the “Rey is Leia’s unwanted child from her time with Jabba the Hutt” theory … 😉 You’ll all be eating crow when it turns out that I’m right… ---
**Author:** ![iLemming](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@iLemming](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iLemming)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/557 "2015-12-23T00:28:49Z")
[This says it best.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MkIjG4vJLk) ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/558 "2015-12-23T00:33:22Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Repair, yes; the rest, not really. She is explicitly shown to know how to manage junk and says that she helped put the Falcon back together. (It would have been much better if she was shown actually working on it beforehand, but it’s something.) Did she say that? I don’t disbelieve you, I’m actually sort of happy to hear it since everyone kept pointing to her salvage career as reason for her knowing so much mechanical stuff. I kept thinking “Shit, I can take a thousand things apart with a screwdriver but you wouldn’t want me to try putting any of them back together again”. I didn’t see how stripping down crashed Empire ships translated into knowing how they actually operate. ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/559 "2015-12-23T00:52:32Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I’ve not seen the Lego Movie, but I don’t remember Trinity getting less effective in the Matrix, only Neo getting more effective - after all, he was The One. Unless, of course, you are referring to the follow-on films which I have not seen. It’s been awhile, so I just skimmed a synopsis of the Matrix, and it looks like you are right, Trinity does have a role in the climax that isn’t getting captured, so it doesn’t really apply. ---
**Author:** ![iLemming](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@iLemming](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iLemming)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/560 "2015-12-23T01:03:40Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > There it is. Maybe you’d be more comfortable back at 4chan, or r/KotakuInAction. Mad Max: Fury Road | Star Wars: TFA Female protagonist | female protagonist Traditionally ‘unfeminine’ hair style | traditionally ‘unfeminine’ hair style ‘No-man’s lass’ attitude | ‘no-man’s lass’ attitude Inordinately mechanically and spacially adept | inordinately mechanically and spacially adept Overpowers and bests males in combat | overpowers and bests males in combat Excels at any task or crucible | excels at any task or crucible Unbreakable, if not untouchable | unbreakable, if not untouchable In the end, becomes ‘queen’ of all she surveys | in the end, becomes ‘queen’ of all she surveys(…?) Bechdel approved | Bechdel approved Pertaining film highly, arguably unmeritoriously rated | pertaining film highly, arguably unmeritoriously rated… If you genuinely do not see the Forest of Agenda behind these Mary Sue trees, it might be too late for phrenology. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=29)