# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 32
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/621 "2015-12-23T17:33:54Z")
I work on the online banking side of a major American bank. People complain about how long it takes us to fix the smallest of bugs that make it to production because of how tight our production controls are. If we want to intentionally bring down a system dozens of people are involved in approving it and then a painful amount of work to document and test whatever will be done before you actually get to do it. But in the Empire apparently any infantry soldier has the necessary access and know how to single handedly take an entire planetary defense system offline. Without so much as an “are you sure?” prompt. More than anything, that makes me want to join the Empire. Of course, when Lena Dunham’s boyfriend senses that Han Solo is on the planet while the shields are still up it apparently never occurred to him to spread the word that the Resistance had found a way through the shields. (Later I might do the math on just how precise Han Solo’s reflexes are to manually take a ship out of faster than light speed within the maybe 100 mile distance between shields and planetary surface. Though if slower than light speed stuff is blocked by the shields not sure how the planet gun arms itself with all the mass from the local sun. Or how the planet, once it shoots that wad gets to another star system or how it then shoots its projectile at sublight speeds from one solar system to another in the span of a few minutes.) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/622 "2015-12-23T17:37:20Z")
At our theater, opening night, the crowd was pretty nuts. Ran into a generally very serious guy I know, who happened to be dressed as a Jedi Knight. Main things I recall include cheering at the opening, riotous laughter and applause at the Falcon’s reveal, and most folks waiting around to see what was after the credits (Nothing. One guy remarked “Thanks, Marvel!”) And yeah, the instant bread was a very nice touch. The bit where she pours the mix into a shallow bowl of water and stirs the obviously thin mixture with her finger did as much to illustrate her poverty as the thin stuff immediately plumping up into a space muffin did to illustrate the advanced technology/fantasy of the setting. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/623 "2015-12-23T17:40:26Z")
I can’t read this thread yet so forgive me if already asked, but, is it possible to make out what’s happening through the lens flair? ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/624 "2015-12-23T17:44:35Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > How did Luke know he could do so in the Wampa cave on Hoth? I’m fairly sure Obiwan never levitated anything in ANH. (correct me if I’m forgetting something). At this point, Rey’s seen much more evidence of the Force being used for TK than Luke had until then. Exactly. Luke had the briefest of training when he did the force grab. I still like the theory that Rey was a very young padawan who was abandoned on Jakka and had her memory scrubbed. She had some force training and it’s coming back to her naturally even if she doesn’t understand it. I’m hoping she’s not Luke’s kid but has some connection ( I think it would be awesome if she’s Wedges’ kid.) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/625 "2015-12-23T17:51:20Z")
> [@randwill](#): > > I can’t read this thread yet so forgive me if already asked, but, is it possible to make out what’s happening through the lens flair? I’m not saying there are zero lens flares(I don’t remember), but he doesn’t do his lens flare thing at all in this movie. I noticed none. He matched the old style from the first three movies more or less. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/626 "2015-12-23T18:03:25Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > And speaking of Kylo Ren, I’m actually fine with this version of “whiny”. Anakin in the prequels was a little boy and a weepy teenager trying to get in control of his hormones. Sure, but does anyone say that pre-Darth Anakin was a good character? I mean, Kylo Ren is better than Jar Jar Binks too for all the faint praise that damns him with. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/627 "2015-12-23T18:21:19Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > So I’ve had a few days to think about and digest the movie, along with reading what everyone else here and elsewhere is saying about the movie. My initial excitement and love of this movie is still there, but yeah, there are some flaws I can see now. I would still give this movie a solid 8.5/10 though, and for simply being fun and cool and having that modern gritty aesthetic, I could bump it up to a 9/10. This movie was that good. > > I don’t care that it was a rehash of A New Hope. I think that was brilliantly done and necessary. We all had a bad taste in our mouth from the prequels, and even if Revenge of the Sith wasn’t terrible, it still missed out on being a terrific film by virtue of poor writing, the previous 2 films being kinda shitty, and filled with whiny, unlikable characters with poor motivations. The Force Awakens needed to be a reboot in more ways than one. It needed to capture that old magic feeling, which I feel it did by having so many similarities to A New Hope, but most important of all, **this film series seems intended to redeem and reboot the prequels**. By having such a big focus be on Kylo Ren and his struggles, acted superbly by Adam Driver, and making the fall seem more realistic than Anakin and the whiny dialogue Hayden Christiansen was given, this film makes up for that fall by showing how a real fall into the dark side should have been. We appreciate this film more because in contrast to the prequels, it stands as a better film. > > And speaking of Kylo Ren, I’m actually fine with this version of “whiny”. Anakin in the prequels was a little boy and a weepy teenager trying to get in control of his hormones. Not to mention he got some of the worst dialogue know to man (“I don’t like sand…”). I never saw him as much more than that little Jake Lloyd character from the Phantom Menace. Each time I think about Christiansen and Portman having a relationship, I remember that she met him when he was like 9 and it just feels kinda creepy. Teenage Anakin and his high school hair braid didn’t help either. On the other hand, we never meet Kylo as a child, we know him as a man, and first as a menacing, helmeted user of the force that could freeze a blaster bolt in mid-air. That establishes him as someone badass, someone I can fear, someone I can take seriously. Him removing his helmet is jarring as he doesn’t look like how you’d expect him to look from the previous hour of the movie, and then you find out he’s Solo’s son who turned to the Dark Side. Suddenly his temper tantrums make sense, he’s supposed to be this good kid of Han and Leia’s, carrying on the family tradition, but he got sucked into the dark side by this menacing, giant 20 ft tall alien (don’t think for one second that Snoke’s size isn’t on purpose, they designed him to be that intimidating). Internally though, he’s still got some Solo and Skywalker in him, and that tears him apart so much he’s talking to his dead grandfather. Rey’s turning of the force mind reading back to him was exactly what the audience suspected all along, he’s a young man trying to live up to a legacy that he’s afraid he can’t. Of course he looks normal, of course he’s got this scary helmet, everything he’s doing is emulating Vader. > > I think the complaints about Rey being too quickly a force-using adept is too early at this point. We’re too used to instant gratification now. Short attention spans, the need to have everything right now, its ruining long term planning. This movie is the first in a trilogy designed to cap the end of a 9 movie, 40 year franchise. There will be things here that won’t make sense! There will be things set in motion now that will be explained in 2019 when Episode 9 comes out! So what if Rey never flew a ship but could fly the Falcon? So what if she beat a force user in her first light saber battle ever? She could be the daughter of Luke or Obi-Wan! She could have had training that Luke suppressed when Kylo Ren killed the rest of his apprentices! She could be Snoke in disguise, Palpatine’s clone, Darth Revan, or a collection of midichlorians in a human skin suit! Let’s just marvel at how badass she is and not try to question something when we don’t have all the information. She’s obviously someone important or set up to be someone important, so all of this will be explained later. Just enjoy it for now! > > I’m not too thrilled that the movie was a rehash of A New Hope, but like I said above, it was necessary for redeeming and fixing the prequels. It was also, I think, a production necessity by Disney. Let’s face it, as much as Lucas messed up the prequels and toyed around with the original trilogy, he was Star Wars itself. He’s one guy making all the decisions and a billionaire, so we know he won’t chase a new series just for money or to ruin it (on purpose). We might disagree with his vision, but it seems better than having a giant corporation control this franchise, right? JJ Abrams knew that, and knew that there was a lot on the line to prove he was a worthy successor and that these films won’t be picked apart by any corporatism, whether real or imagined. The Force Awakens showed he could make a Star Wars movie true to the feel of the franchise. Now that he’s got this under his belt, he has the political capital to do things much differently with the next 2 movies. Imagine if we got something totally different in this first movie. It would be endlessly attacked as too Abrams and not enough Star Wars, or OMG lens flare! Or this is too similar to Star Trek or whatever. He needed to make a Star Wars movie first before he could experiment with making it different and new and unique Agree with this for the most part, with the exception that, again, I’m not seeing this as a retread of Episode 4. The only other thing is, I don’t think Abram’s is doing the follow on movies, so the last part of this seems off, since he won’t be (afaik) involved in the next movies. I wish he were, since I think he brought much needed redemption and life back into the series. I think you were spot on in your 4th paragraph…that’s what I was trying to get at in my post earlier, but you said it much better. It’s too early to tell at this point how all of this interconnects or even much about the various characters before this movie happened, so there are a lot of details that will hopefully get fleshed out and filled in in the next two. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/628 "2015-12-23T18:28:06Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > How did Luke know he could do so in the Wampa cave on Hoth? I’m fairly sure Obiwan never levitated anything in ANH. (correct me if I’m forgetting something). At this point, Rey’s seen much more evidence of the Force being used for TK than Luke had until then. In his book _The Secret History of Star Wars_, Michael Kaminski points out how that moment in the Wampa cave, where Luke moves the saber with his mind, is the moment when the presentation of the Force completely changed. In the first film, the Force was very shadowy and mysterious, and seemed to be mostly mental. Ben’s “These aren’t the droids you’re looking for” routine. Luke hearing Ben’s voice in the X-wing cockpit (did he really hear it, or was it his own mind reminding him of what his mentor would have told him?). Luke calming himself and concentrating sufficiently to make a difficult torpedo shot. Even Vader’s force-choke could be read as a mental ability, an amped-up Jedi mind trick to make Admiral What’s-His-Name _believe_ that he couldn’t breathe. You could understand how someone like Han might be skeptical of the Force–maybe it is all just “simple tricks and nonsense.” There was very little there that looked _real_ to an outsider, nothing that you could _prove_. But in the Wampa cave, Luke explicitly uses the Force to move a physical object. Later, of course, Yoda will be lifting the X-wing out of the swamp, and Vader will be telekinetically throwing all sorts of stuff at Luke. It’s a definite change in the treatment of the Force. No longer a subtle, mystical thing that might do no more than enhance your will power, it becomes a comic-book style super power that lets you move objects without touching them and do impossible acrobatics. How could anyone doubt the reality of the Force if they saw such things going on? Thinking on this, it occurs to me that this also has something to with why Luke didn’t progress in the Force more quickly in the first film. Because there wasn’t yet a full conception of what he might progress _to_. In a different reality, where the Force remained as subtle and mysterious as it was in _Star Wars_, hearing Ben’s voice and making a seemingly impossible shot might have been the gold standard of what Luke could be expected to achieve with the Force on his side. These days we all know the Force can let you levitate objects, but in 1977 we didn’t. Rey has to progress farther and faster than Luke did in a single film, because our expectations of what a Jedi can do are much higher now. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/629 "2015-12-23T18:32:03Z")
OK, so Finn wants to break free of being a Stormtrooper 'cos he doesn’t like killing people and isn’t just a faceless mook in a helmet, I get that. But does the first action of his new life really have to be enthusisastically machine-gunning the other faceless mooks in helmets who were his buddies not 10 minutes before? Dude, not cool. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/630 "2015-12-23T18:38:12Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’m not saying there are zero lens flares(I don’t remember), but he doesn’t do his lens flare thing at all in this movie. I noticed none. He matched the old style from the first three movies more or less. There’s a big one when Kylo is on the bridge of his ship, watching the Starkiller fire for the first time. > [@XT](#): > > The only other thing is, I don’t think Abram’s is doing the follow on movies, so the last part of this seems off, since he won’t be (afaik) involved in the next movies. He’s not. Next film is directed by Rian Johnson, who did the fantastic _Looper_. Colin Treverow, who directed _Jurassic World_, is doing the third. > [@Penfeather](#): > > OK, so Finn wants to break free of being a Stormtrooper 'cos he doesn’t like killing people and isn’t just a faceless mook in a helmet, I get that. But does the first action of his new life really have to be enthusisastically machine-gunning the other faceless mooks in helmets who were his buddies not 10 minutes before? Dude, not cool. Those other guys are total dicks, though. That one guy, TK421? _Never_ flushes after he uses the head. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/631 "2015-12-23T18:53:22Z")
And Fin was the guy all sad about his one Stormtrooper buddy getting shot and smearing blood on his helmet some six hours prior. Plenty more Stormtrooper blood where that came from! ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/632 "2015-12-23T19:02:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Those other guys are total dicks, though. That one guy, TK421? _Never_ flushes after he uses the head. And he always spends a lot of time in there… that’s why he’s never at his post. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/633 "2015-12-23T19:09:51Z")
I’m not just a mindless killing machine like the rest of you! PEW PEW PEW PEW RATATATATATAT BOOM SPLAT ARGH! ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/634 "2015-12-23T19:14:42Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I’m not just a mindless killing machine like the rest of you! PEW PEW PEW PEW RATATATATATAT BOOM SPLAT ARGH! He’s supposed to be a killer! Just because he’s rebelling against his conditioning doesn’t mean he’s free of it. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/635 "2015-12-23T19:16:09Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > How did Luke know he could do so in the Wampa cave on Hoth? I’m fairly sure Obiwan never levitated anything in ANH. (correct me if I’m forgetting something). It’s ambiguous depending on how you assume Ben used the Force to distract the Stormtroopers at the tractor beam. I always assumed he implanted a sound in their minds but you can argue he used telekinesis to make noise. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/636 "2015-12-23T19:25:18Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Sure, but does anyone say that pre-Darth Anakin was a good character? I mean, Kylo Ren is better than Jar Jar Binks too for all the faint praise that damns him with. Well I should clarify that I like Kylo and how he was depicted, not just liked him in comparison to Anakin. I mentioned the comparison to Anakin because that was the most obvious comparison. Kylo’s story is how Anakin’s should have been done. Whiny, moments of weakness and failing, living up to a standard he was born into, but done in a more realistic, non-annoying way. The dialogue and how he expressed himself was just well done that I’m not surprised there are Oscar rumors for this movie > [@XT](#): > > Agree with this for the most part, with the exception that, again, I’m not seeing this as a retread of Episode 4. The only other thing is, I don’t think Abram’s is doing the follow on movies, so the last part of this seems off, since he won’t be (afaik) involved in the next movies. I wish he were, since I think he brought much needed redemption and life back into the series. I think you were spot on in your 4th paragraph…that’s what I was trying to get at in my post earlier, but you said it much better. It’s too early to tell at this point how all of this interconnects or even much about the various characters before this movie happened, so there are a lot of details that will hopefully get fleshed out and filled in in the next two. I think JJ Abrams is staying on as the executive producer, and I’m sure he’s mapped out a general direction of how he wants the other movies to go, so that’s why I credit him for getting this one done before moving on to others. There’s no way Disney would give 3 different people with 3 different visions control of a trilogy and have 3 unconnected stories jumbled together. He’s probably playing the Kevin Feige role for the Marvel Cinematic Universe and bridging all of the ideas together into one coherent story line. There’s one big, major gripe I have that I haven’t see anyone else have. Its more of a personal pet peeve I have with the whole franchise actually. I really don’t like it, and I don’t buy it, when people go around saying the Jedi and the force are some mythical religion. In the original series, that guy who got force choked by Vader called it an ancient religion. Here, Daisy acts surprised when Han told her all of the rebellion and fighting was real. People! Its been like 20-30 years! There are probably remnants of the Jedi and the force in millions of books still around! The guys who served with Vader probably saw with their own eyes Jedis in their lifetime. There are probably decrees by the Emperor that any force-sensitive people are to be killed on sight, any remaining Jedi’s hunted down, found lightsabers turned into the official Galactic Empire lightsaber registry! And Daisy, while young, lived in a time where the Galactic Empire was within living memory. She lives in a downed AT-AT for god sakes, where did she think that came from?? The gulf war was about 20 years ago, you don’t see 20 year old kids now saying that the war was a myth and speaking of the legends of General Schwarzkopf, some mythical figure that doesn’t exist anymore. Even if the Empire killed all of the Jedi and destroyed their temple, there are aliens, apparently like Maz, who lives for a thousand years who can say “Oh yeah, the Jedi? They were a bunch of force-using Republic policemen who went around cutting people’s hands off with lightsabers. Of course they were real, here’s a TV show produced by the Empire about their last days, here’s a picture of one posing with me, here’s a toy lightsaber” ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/637 "2015-12-23T19:36:57Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > He’s supposed to be a killer! Just because he’s rebelling against his conditioning doesn’t mean he’s free of it. Hey, I think my old buddies are coming on board! LET’S GAS THE FUCKERS! ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/638 "2015-12-23T19:54:50Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > OK, so Finn wants to break free of being a Stormtrooper 'cos he doesn’t like killing people and isn’t just a faceless mook in a helmet, I get that. But does the first action of his new life really have to be enthusisastically machine-gunning the other faceless mooks in helmets who were his buddies not 10 minutes before? Dude, not cool. I think he’s ok with killing those who are trying to kill him. He just wasn’t cool with gunning down a group of people that posed no real threat. He wanted to break free from evil, not from killing. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > There’s one big, major gripe I have that I haven’t see anyone else have. Its more of a personal pet peeve I have with the whole franchise actually. I really don’t like it, and I don’t buy it, when people go around saying the Jedi and the force are some mythical religion. In the original series, that guy who got force choked by Vader called it an ancient religion. Here, Daisy acts surprised when Han told her all of the rebellion and fighting was real. People! Its been like 20-30 years! There are probably remnants of the Jedi and the force in millions of books still around! The guys who served with Vader probably saw with their own eyes Jedis in their lifetime. There are probably decrees by the Emperor that any force-sensitive people are to be killed on sight, any remaining Jedi’s hunted down, found lightsabers turned into the official Galactic Empire lightsaber registry! And Daisy, while young, lived in a time where the Galactic Empire was within living memory. She lives in a downed AT-AT for god sakes, where did she think that came from?? The gulf war was about 20 years ago, you don’t see 20 year old kids now saying that the war was a myth and speaking of the legends of General Schwarzkopf, some mythical figure that doesn’t exist anymore. Even if the Empire killed all of the Jedi and destroyed their temple, there are aliens, apparently like Maz, who lives for a thousand years who can say “Oh yeah, the Jedi? They were a bunch of force-using Republic policemen who went around cutting people’s hands off with lightsabers. Of course they were real, here’s a TV show produced by the Empire about their last days, here’s a picture of one posing with me, here’s a toy lightsaber” How many Jedis were there in the whole galaxy? I seriously doubt that everyone alive at the time had seen them or was even all that aware of what, exactly, they were. Or what the force was. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/639 "2015-12-23T19:56:34Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I think JJ Abrams is staying on as the executive producer, and I’m sure he’s mapped out a general direction of how he wants the other movies to go, so that’s why I credit him for getting this one done before moving on to others. There’s no way Disney would give 3 different people with 3 different visions control of a trilogy and have 3 unconnected stories jumbled together. He’s probably playing the Kevin Feige role for the Marvel Cinematic Universe and bridging all of the ideas together into one coherent story line. No, that’s [Kathleen Kennedy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathleen_Kennedy_%28producer%29) Abrams’ name does not appear anywhere in the (currently very short) [list of credits](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2527338/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_wr#writers) for Episode IX. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2015, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/640 "2015-12-23T20:34:06Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > It’s ambiguous depending on how you assume Ben used the Force to distract the Stormtroopers at the tractor beam. I always assumed he implanted a sound in their minds but you can argue he used telekinesis to make noise. I thought about mentioning that, but it’s ambiguous, as you say, and in any event, Luke wasn’t there to see it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=31) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=33)