# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/661 "2015-12-24T00:53:35Z")
[ol] [li]Anyone else think it is well past time for the Jedi to review their training program? Let’s see. Qui-Gon trains up a guy and we get Drath Maul. Obi-Wan trains up Anakin and we get Darth Vader. Luke trains up his nephew and we get Ren. Sure, some trainees are going to be washouts, but Jedi failures go on to wreak havoc.[/li][li]Rey just has to be Luke’s daughter. But, who is the baby-momma?[/li][li]Finn’s being assigned to sanitation was a good plot point. Even better would have been to be assigned to communications or maintenance. In college, I had a friend who worked for the school’s phone services. He said he had access to anywhere and anything. He could walk into an office and say he was there to work on the phones and people would ignore him and continue with confidential meetings as if he weren’t even there. Maybe Imperial Stormpoopers are similarly invisible.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/662 "2015-12-24T01:13:02Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > What’s the odds that in the entire galaxy the Falcon is on Rae’s planet and that she, with the map to Luke, steals it just as Han shows up to reclaim it? > > Sorry I haven’t read the whole 9 pages, but was it ever explained why 3PO had a red arm, and was it hinted that Rae somehow related to Luke (daughter maybe?) > [@Malthus](#): > > The film-makers leave it a deliberate mystery who Rey’s parents were. They spend half the movie dropping hints she’s Han and Leia’s daughter, and the other half dropping hints she is Luke’s daughter (mother unknown). > > No doubt her parentage will be a major plot-point in the upcoming next movie. > > My own favorite theory is that she is Luke’s daughter, but he never knew it - he left before he found out her mom was pregnant; and that her mom left her on that planet because she was being chased by bad guys, who then killed or captured her. > > My less-favorite theory is: split the difference - she is Luke’s and Leia’s daughter. 😃 Indeed. I think none of this will turn out to be coincidence. > [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > It was like that for the showing I went to as well. I kept chuckling at the little funny lines here and there but I heard nothing from the rest of the audience. No cheering for Han and Chewie’s entrance, no gasps. I thought it was a bit odd. That’s because despite social progress, _this_ type of mixed marriage is still not acceptable. ☹ Meanwhile, I think there can never be another Star Wars film as good as the original. The freshness factor is gone. Now we judge one of the films by meeting our preconceived expectations, but those expectations were set by the first one in 1977. That one I watched 19 times in the cinema when it came out. The others? Once each. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/663 "2015-12-24T02:05:21Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > An idle thought regarding Finn being assigned to Sanitation, and I can’t remember if it got touched on in here: > > It actually makes sense that he’d know a bit about how the base was laid out and how it worked given that assignment. If he was responsible for emptying all the dustbins and throwing the contents into the garbage compactors, he’s probably been all over the place, and gotten into relatively sensitive areas. He might not know how to use the shield generator controls, but he at least knows where they are. for me, this is entirely believable. where I work, our buildings have numerous areas which are secure and access is granted on a “need to know” basis. as far as I can tell, the building trades and housekeeping have universal access. > [@Drum\_God](#): > > [ol] > [li]Anyone else think it is well past time for the Jedi to review their training program? Let’s see. Qui-Gon trains up a guy and we get Drath Maul. Obi-Wan trains up Anakin and we get Darth Vader. Luke trains up his nephew and we get Ren. Sure, some trainees are going to be washouts, but Jedi failures go on to wreak havoc.[/li] > [/ol] no, not really. if you accept the concept of something like The Force, and that there are people who have learned of it and how to control it, you just know there are going to be one or two assholes here and there. And this is one thing I think _The Force Awakens_ did way better than any of the prequels. When Kylo Ren gets pissed off, he goes _fucking apeshit_ and smashes shit in a blind rage. If the Force is to have a light side and a dark side, you’re going to get people who are going to go the “wrong” way. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/664 "2015-12-24T02:11:12Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > Qui-Gon trains up a guy and we get Drath Maul. Qui-Gon didn’t train Darth Maul. But Yoda did train Count Dooku. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/665 "2015-12-24T02:11:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’ll agree that the Finn comfortably shooting his former comrades during the escape didn’t fit. This could have been fixed pretty easily with better writing, in my opinion (pretend my dialogue is much less clunky): > > POE: We’re hit! The armor can’t take many more hits like that! > [Finn continues firing, but deliberately avoids shooting to kill] > POE: If they get that emplacement by the power cells set up, we’re as good as dead. > FINN: I can’t! Some of those guys are my friends! > [Poe reaches back and puts a hand on Finn’s shoulder] > POE: I know. But you gotta pick a side, friend. If they capture us, they’re not going to be your friends any more. I know you’ve seen it before. > [Finn smashes his fist on the panel, screams in frustration, and shoots the emplacement, blowing up several troopers] > POE: Attaboy! We’re almost free of the tether! > > Or similar. > > I really enjoyed the movie, by the way, but there were some little things like this that could have been improved pretty easily, in my view. And that would have made their subsequent “besties” relationship make more sense too. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/666 "2015-12-24T02:14:54Z")
> [@sohvan](#): > > That article is from a year ago, and is only speculation. Chewie was credited in Force Awakens as [Joonas Suotamo](http://theforce.net/story/front/Meet_The_New_Chewbacca_Joonas_Suotamo_167274.asp), a Finnish basketball player. He likely did most of the scenes in which Chewie is moving around, but they don’t want to reveal the details of who did which scenes as they want people to view him as one character. Aha. I found someone else mention Ian Whyte and traced it back to that article, but you seem to be right. Maybe he played a different creature in Maz Kanata’s castle. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/667 "2015-12-24T02:16:21Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > And that would have made their subsequent “besties” relationship make more sense too. Nah, friends or no friends, come gunning for me and I’m gonna blast you out of the sky. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/668 "2015-12-24T02:18:10Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Aha. I found someone else mention Ian Whyte and traced it back to that article, but you seem to be right. Maybe he played a different creature in Maz Kanata’s castle. Perhaps the gigantic thing that was canoodling with the First Order spy in the castle. (The big orange guy spanning the couch in [this photo](http://d51ck0gypsxpo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/images/Star_Wars_Force_Awakens_Kanata_castle.png)…looks about the right size for someone who played the Mountain.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/669 "2015-12-24T02:58:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Perhaps the gigantic thing that was canoodling with the First Order spy in the castle. > > (The big orange guy spanning the couch in [this photo](http://d51ck0gypsxpo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/images/Star_Wars_Force_Awakens_Kanata_castle.png)…looks about the right size for someone who played the Mountain.) Probably not. We only ever see that character sitting, so they don’t need a big guy to wear it, just someone to hide behind the couch and work the mouth and eyes. Hell, the couch is probably part of the costume. ---
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/670 "2015-12-24T03:43:54Z")
I liked much of it, thought it was a good movie overall, but it recycles yet another father-son drama involving the primary bad guy. :dubious: The Dark Side really needs to learn that’s it’s not wise to recruit your leader from the Light Side. Don’t underestimate family ties, but I guess the Star War series is a space soap opera like Days of Our Lives meets the Jetsons. Although this recruitment process does play into the whole Dark vs. Light dynamic of changing alliance. However, I think it would add some excitement to the plot to have a reliable Light Side stalwart go Dark Side in the middle of the action, something like cute, adorable Yoda wielding a light saber against Luke. I know Annakin changed to the Dark Side but the process was slow and telegraphed all the way. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/671 "2015-12-24T03:52:20Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > **snip** > > I think you have to be, to be seduced by the Dark Side. A stand-up, honorable person with confidence in him or herself isn’t going to see the allure. The emotions that lead to the Dark Side are Hate, Anger, Jealousy, etc. In other words, emo, whiny, annoying shit: people who can’t find strength and meaning inside themselves, and so try to find it through power. > **snip** I agree with you, the character for some reason just hit a sour note with me. He was one of the characters that I was referencing with room for development. LOTS of development. ---
**Author:** ![Blisters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Blisters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blisters)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/672 "2015-12-24T04:01:26Z")
Forgive me if this was discussed and I missed it. Kylo Ren appears to be communing with his grandfather (Vader) via his helmet, but we viewers know that Vader/Anakin turned back to the light. So who is he actually communing with? Not Vader. Snoke? Some other baddie? Also-when Kylo Ren is mucking around in Rey’s brain he says something like “you see the sea…an island…I see it too” Does that refer to the place Luke is? How does that work? ( thanks 🙂 ) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/673 "2015-12-24T04:33:23Z")
I just interpreted that as Kylo being a crazy guy who dug up his grandfather’s grave so he could talk to his helmet. Well, hopefully just the helmet and not the whole head. There’s no particular reason that the conversation has to be two ways, although it would be interesting if we have Anakin’s force ghost counseling him against the Dark Side, and this is the actual temptation towards the Light he keeps angsting about, thinking that he’s just not getting a clear signal because of the temptation rather than the actual signal being the message to avoid the Dark side. The bit about the island suggests that either Rey has seen it before and doesn’t know it, or that she’s somehow able to sense Luke’s location through the Force and this is what Kylo is hitching his wagon onto when he is interrogating her. Of course, that negates the entire map subplot, which was clumsily done anyways. ---
**Author:** ![phreak9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/45deac/32.png) [@phreak9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phreak9)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/674 "2015-12-24T06:02:48Z")
To me JJ Abrams is only as good as Cloverfield, which is a Godzilla rip off he produced. Everything he has done that I have seen just mirrors something that has worked in the past. He is a movie history teacher recycling and repackaging (white girl and black guy leads for star wars to extend its reach beyond pasty white guys) everything he touches. I was afraid he would do what he always does to Star Wars but figured someone had enough sense to make him do something original and somehow he was able to recycle 4,5, and 6 into a new movie that mirrors all 3. Im appalled. JJ should be teaching movie history at USC and deserves nothing more. Start acknowledging and admitting what he is, a total hack who had a friend whose dad was a producer and after he failed with original ideas he became a copy cat and sadly its worked for 2 decades. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/675 "2015-12-24T06:11:45Z")
Well I suppose there’s always Michael Bay as an alternative. ---
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/676 "2015-12-24T06:25:30Z")
One thing I didn’t get was the fact that the events and characters of the original are portrayed as so legendary and foreign to the new characters, in that they don’t know if they were real. It’s just a generation. That would be like young people today thinking of Vietnam like we think of Vikings and King Arthur By the way, I saw this on one of Wired’s top 10 screens and it was AWESOME ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/677 "2015-12-24T06:46:19Z")
> [@Grsz11](#): > > One thing I didn’t get was the fact that the events and characters of the original are portrayed as so legendary and foreign to the new characters, in that they don’t know if they were real. It’s just a generation. That would be like young people today thinking of Vietnam like we think of Vikings and King Arthur Heck, we left Vietnam _more_ years ago; this would’ve been like talking about, I dunno, _“back when Tom Cruise was a movie star.”_ ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/678 "2015-12-24T06:58:21Z")
> [@Grsz11](#): > > One thing I didn’t get was the fact that the events and characters of the original are portrayed as so legendary and foreign to the new characters, in that they don’t know if they were real. It’s just a generation. That would be like young people today thinking of Vietnam like we think of Vikings and King Arthur It would be like hearing about the fall of the Soviet Union, which happened ten years before you were born, hearing some vague names, and the concept that it involved magic and a single sword-wielding warrior. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/679 "2015-12-24T07:02:51Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Heck, we left Vietnam _more_ years ago; this would’ve been like talking about, I dunno, _“back when Tom Cruise was a movie star.”_ Isn’t he just a myth? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2015, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/680 "2015-12-24T09:15:19Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > Anyone else think it is well past time for the Jedi to review their training program? Let’s see. Qui-Gon trains up a guy and we get Drath Maul. Obi-Wan trains up Anakin and we get Darth Vader. Luke trains up his nephew and we get Ren. Sure, some trainees are going to be washouts, but Jedi failures go on to wreak havoc. Not me. Ben Solo falling to the dark side has violated my suspension of disbelief - I do not view the problem on the level of “Wow, Han, Luke and Leia sure suck at raising their son/nephew, don’t they?” but rather “J.J. Abrams really has no respect for these characters, does he?” And yes, I know the EU did it first. But _Legacy of the Force_ was shit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=35)