# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/781 "2015-12-26T01:35:13Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I thought the movie was below average. Besides everything else mentioned in the thread, I found it irritating that the space neo nazis had a planet killing gun but no closed circuit cameras to find out where their prisoner went. Are you the kind of person who asks science fiction cast members annoying questions about the realism of features of their science fiction story? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/782 "2015-12-26T01:44:17Z")
> [@bldysabba](#): > > I thought the movie was below average. Besides everything else mentioned in the thread, I found it irritating that the space neo nazis had a planet killing gun but no closed circuit cameras to find out where their prisoner went. Hey, c’mon…there’s such a thing as a _budget_, even for space Nazis. Though I can imagine why the place wasn’t set up to monitor prisoners, or indeed to keep out intruders, because there might not have been any expectation that there would _be_ any prisoners or intruders. ---
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/783 "2015-12-26T01:53:53Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, c’mon…there’s such a thing as a _budget_, even for space Nazis. > > Though I can imagine why the place wasn’t set up to monitor prisoners, or indeed to keep out intruders, because there might not have been any expectation that there would _be_ any prisoners or intruders. Prisons are meant to keep people in, thus cameras inside. Bases are meant to keep people out, thus defensive weapons ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/784 "2015-12-26T01:55:53Z")
I saw the movie on the 17th (advance tickets–woot!), but just stumbled onto this thread. I give the movie a 9/10, but I give the audience I was with a SQRT(-1). Too many kids pointing and speaking (“Look mommy! BB-8”), or the old guy sitting next to me making his own sound effects during the movie. Listen people, I like to get immersed into the story. Shut yer yaps, use your inside voices, and let the movie do the audio. I will go back and watch it again–I thoroughly enjoyed it. I keep in mind though, that Ep IV was a _groundbreaking_ storyline, with special effects. Since then, most audiences have been conditioned to expect more. I think they did well with Ep VII, while keeping it understandable to a younger audience, without dumbing it down like they did in Ep I. I understand that JJ Abrams realized he’s got the ability to hook a new, younger generation of an audience in, while still keeping it enjoyable for those of us who saw the original three in the theaters. I’m very pleased JJ Abrams stayed away from CGI unless it was absolutely necessary. > [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > This is probably one of the most insightful comments. Agreed. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Who doesn’t think Rey is Luke’s daughter? I don’t. I think it would be too convenient to the storyline to make the whole series a big in-family Civil War. I think she’s completely unrelated, strong with the force, and is a main character intended to draw Luke back into the storyline. And of course she knows machines. She’s a scavenger and has plenty of time on her hands to learn how machines work while stuck on that sandball. > [@Raguleader](#): > > The whole plotline of taking the thing down seemed a bit contrived. Captain Phasma is really going to lower the shields just because Finn asked her nicely? What does she have to gain here? If she had any pre-existing conflict with General Hux (more on him later) where she’d benefit from his superweapon going down, it might work, but otherwise it doesn’t really seem like she has any reason not to try and screw the Resistance over (setting off an alarm) or tell them to pound sand (do nothing and let them shoot her or feed her to a dianoga). IIRC, Finn had a blaster to her head, did he not? Casting such a high-power name to that particular role simply requires more than a cameo. I think Phasma’s background will be opened up more in the next two flicks (see my prediction below), and I’ll wager she’ll be a more integral character in VIII and IX. > [@Raguleader](#): > > Kylo Ren’s tantrums. Yeah, they’re childish, but they set him apart from Darth Vader in a pretty clear way. He’s young, he’s rash, and he doesn’t seem to share his grandfather’s tendency to kill the messenger. He just destroys everything else in the room until he’s vented some steam and sends the terrified underling off to find a clean pair of trousers. They also seem to illustrate that whatever he’s going to be, he hasn’t finished getting there yet. Jedi Knight or Sith Lord, he still has a lot of growing up to do, not entirely unlike Rey or Finn (Poe for his part seems to mostly have his stuff together at this point in his life) If I recall, Luke had the same brash impulses. And Luke never fully completed his training. . . he hopped into his X-Wing and took off from Degobah before finishing. To my knowledge, he never did finish his formal training, and is thus susceptible–which may be a reason he’d gone into hiding. At the end of the movie, Snoke ordered Hux to grab Kylo and return him to Snoke to finish his training. Once he does, I think Snoke will give him a ‘Darth Name’. > [@Miller](#): > > When she touched the saber, she got a Force-induced vision of what appeared to be Kylo and his knights turning on Luke and his other students. Whether that means that Rey was actually there when it happened isn’t clear. It’s also not necessarily the case that that was a flashback - she also saw the future in the same vision, when she foresaw Kylo coming after her in the snowy forest on Starkiller Base. So what that scene _might_ have been something yet to come. Another sequence in her vision is that of a little girl being forcibly taken away from Jakku, presumably into the First Order transport ships that launch just a few seconds later. Keep in mind, the FO shifted away from clones and to live-humanoid StormTroopers, and needed to indoctrinate them from a very young age . . . which is part of the reason you see a diverse pool of StormTroopers instead of a bunch of Jango Fetts running around. But this leads me to something. . . **Here’s my prediction** : That vision was a flashback to what Rey had seen/experienced as a young girl. Rey’s also been “waiting for her family to return” to Jakku. I believe that little abducted girl was the now-Phasma, and that Rey and Phasma are related–_as sisters_. Tripler But nobody’s mentioned the contractors that were working on board the Starkiller and got killed. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/785 "2015-12-26T02:17:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Though I can imagine why the place wasn’t set up to monitor prisoners, or indeed to keep out intruders, because there might not have been any expectation that there would _be_ any prisoners or intruders. There’s a whole bunch of reasons why a military installation would have actual security beyond “makeshift prison”. > [@Tripler](#): > > IIRC, Finn had a blaster to her head, did he not? Casting such a high-power name to that particular role simply requires more than a cameo. I think Phasma’s background will be opened up more in the next two flicks (see my prediction below), and I’ll wager she’ll be a more integral character in VIII and IX. We didn’t even get a token “No, I’ll never do it! Never!” (cocks blaster\*) “Ok, ok!” When she returns, it should during a show trial before her public execution. \*Whatever one does with a blaster to show they mean business. If Hollywood can have people compulsive racking shotguns, they can cock blasters. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/786 "2015-12-26T02:29:46Z")
Does no one remember Boba Fett? Phasma will be back and bad, count on it. Then she’ll die a quick and messy death by accident. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/787 "2015-12-26T02:34:16Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Another sequence in her vision is that of a little girl being forcibly taken away from Jakku, presumably into the First Order transport ships that launch just a few seconds later. No, that little girl was Rey herself, bring abandoned on Jakku. She’s watching what are presumably her parents leaving on they ship, while the junk dealer from the beginning of the movie pulls her away. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/788 "2015-12-26T02:34:19Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Some questions: > > What is the relationship between the Republic and the Resistance? Why doesn’t the Republic have its own armed forces to fight the First Order and other bad guys? I believe the situation is that the Republic controls most of what was the Old Republic/Empire. The First Order controls the rest and some territory that was formally outside the Empire. The Resistance is a force inside First Order space that is being run and supplied by the Republic to undermine and destroy the First Order. The irony is that everyone hates the politics of the prequels but this movie could have used just a smidge of politics to explain the state of the galaxy since return of the Jedi. either in the crawl or a single scene with Leia would have been good. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/789 "2015-12-26T02:49:51Z")
> [@Grsz11](#): > > There have been some possible explanations for this in this thread. One is she had some training by Luke before Kylo killed everyone but spared her and she doesn’t remember. Also, her limited exposure via touching the lightsaber and getting in Kylo’s head may have shown her that could work. She wasn’t confident in her ability to do it obviously…it was more “Let me try this” this is my feeling. she obviously knew some of the “legends” about the Force, the Jedi, Luke Skywalker, etc. the situations you refer to would have led her to believe they were real and worked the way the legend said. I mean, it’s not like Yoda trained Luke to use the force via long division, or writing and compiling a “hello world” program; it was all about getting Luke to _believe_ in the Force and how to touch and control it. Ren’s “interrogation” basically forced Rey to do all three just by necessity. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/790 "2015-12-26T03:04:17Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Kylo Ren’s tantrums. Yeah, they’re childish, but they set him apart from Darth Vader in a pretty clear way. He’s young, he’s rash, and he doesn’t seem to share his grandfather’s tendency to kill the messenger. He just destroys everything else in the room until he’s vented some steam and sends the terrified underling off to find a clean pair of trousers. They also seem to illustrate that whatever he’s going to be, he hasn’t finished getting there yet. Jedi Knight or Sith Lord, he still has a lot of growing up to do, not entirely unlike Rey or Finn (Poe for his part seems to mostly have his stuff together at this point in his life) I sort of agree, but for a different reason. I honestly think it’s down to the actor/director. Anakin Skywalker was also supposed to be young, rash, and prone to fits of rage (destroying things when he’s pissed) but either Hayden Christensen couldn’t play such convincingly, or Lucas couldn’t/didn’t get him to express it. even the Sand People scene in Ep. II seemed fairly wooden. Kylo Ren’s destructive tantrums seemed _real_ for someone powerful yet immature, and also more or less free from consequences. ---
**Author:** ![jimmycolorado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/4bbf92/32.png) [@jimmycolorado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmycolorado)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/791 "2015-12-26T03:21:07Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > this is my feeling. she obviously knew some of the “legends” about the Force, the Jedi, Luke Skywalker, etc. the situations you refer to would have led her to believe they were real and worked the way the legend said. > > I mean, it’s not like Yoda trained Luke to use the force via long division, or writing and compiling a “hello world” program; it was all about getting Luke to _believe_ in the Force and how to touch and control it. Ren’s “interrogation” basically forced Rey to do all three just by necessity. Per Rey knowing how to us the Force, she used the JMT and TK _only after Ren uses those abilities on her_. Am I wrong on the timing here? Ren interrogates her in what was probably my favorite scene in the movie, using the JMT to get her to talk about the map. Rey defends herself and manages to read Ren. Later, she uses the JMT on Daniel Craig and is released. In the fight at the end, Ren uses TK to throw her into a tree, afterwards (immediately afterwards) Rey uses TK to call the saber to her hand. If I’m allowed to editorialize a little, she’s off camera while Ren is trying to call the saber to his hand, Rey must be watching this, as we then see the saber fly off into her hand. Am I not remembering this correctly? Also, upthread, someone linked a funny video that described Joseph Campbell’s Monomyth/The Hero’s Journey ([https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZxs\_jGN7Pg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZxs_jGN7Pg) at least, I believe it was this thread. I’ve been reading lots of SW7 threads haha). What I like about that video, and SW7, is that while Kylo Ren is the “Shadow” according to the Monomyth, he also appears to be the “Mentor”, as he kinda teaches Rey about the Force. I thought that was pretty neat. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/792 "2015-12-26T03:28:41Z")
You remember that completely correctly, **jimmy**. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/793 "2015-12-26T03:34:11Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, that little girl was Rey herself, bring abandoned on Jakku. She’s watching what are presumably her parents leaving on they ship, while the junk dealer from the beginning of the movie pulls her away. Was _that_ it? Man, I _will_ have to watch it again. . . I missed that! Tripler Totally blows my prediction out of the water then. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/794 "2015-12-26T03:35:32Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > This movie is printing money. My theater uses assigned seating and the first showing I can get a reasonable seat for my second viewing is next Thursday. I saw it opening weekend at 1:40 and the theater was half-full. To be fair, they had screenings in 2D every 40 minutes and 3D screenings between those. With that many screenings, which I imagine most theaters are doing, it’s hard to fill every theater all the time. ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/795 "2015-12-26T03:39:54Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Was _that_ it? Man, I _will_ have to watch it again. . . I missed that! > > Tripler > Totally blows my prediction out of the water then. I saw the film twice now and picked up on that the second time. Also, has anyone mentioned Rey’s figure/doll at the beginning when she’s eating her meal at the foot of the AT-AT? It’s a figure/doll of a Rebel pilot (orange jump suit). ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/796 "2015-12-26T03:41:06Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I saw it opening weekend at 1:40 and the theater was half-full. To be fair, they had screenings in 2D every 40 minutes and 3D screenings between those. > > With that many screenings, which I imagine most theaters are doing, it’s hard to fill every theater all the time. I went 2 nights ago. Tickets were still hard to get and the theater I went to was full. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/797 "2015-12-26T03:44:30Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I saw it opening weekend at 1:40 and the theater was half-full. To be fair, they had screenings in 2D every 40 minutes and 3D screenings between those. > > With that many screenings, which I imagine most theaters are doing, it’s hard to fill every theater all the time. AFAIK, the way it works is strictly on ticket sales. A theater could start a new screening every 10 minutes throughout the day if they wanted, they’d just pay the studio/distributor based on admissions. When I saw it Wednesday morning, there were like a dozen people in the theater. When I drove by the place on release day, the parking lot was overflowing. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/798 "2015-12-26T04:27:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Hey, c’mon…there’s such a thing as a _budget_, even for space Nazis. > > Though I can imagine why the place wasn’t set up to monitor prisoners, or indeed to keep out intruders, because there might not have been any expectation that there would _be_ any prisoners or intruders. Yes. This is why you can walk into the Pentagon and take a shit on the desks of the Joint Chiefs of Staff before planting explosives and strolling out whistling. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/799 "2015-12-26T04:29:51Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > I agree, I suspect a bit of a critical backdown is coming after the hype settles and it can be viewed a little more objectively. I mean, it’s not _The Phantom Menace_, it’s perfectly watchable, but that’s only because it’s practically a scene by scene remake of the first Star Wars. These aren’t just “plot elements”, it’s the same fucking movie, only remade with a cast of excitable children. As someone said above, as bad as the prequels were, at least they _aspired_to tell their own story. This is just lazy, cynical pandering. IIRC _Phantom Menace_ blowback did not start until months later. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/800 "2015-12-26T04:41:21Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Minimalist nonsense. If someone nuked Washington D.C. that wouldn’t be sufficient to destroy America’s chain of command. Even if it caused the collapse of the nation into individual states again, that would not happen immediately - the existing military would have plenty of time to use its full strength against the enemy first. It also seems silly living in the days of Al Quada and ISIS that a intergalactic insurgency would have it’s infrastructure consolidated on a single base. I agree with one review I read that said the greatness of Episode VII will be determined by VIII and IX. If those are basically remakes of Empire and Jedi, then Star Wars will have become Spider Man or Batman, retelling the same origin story with a new cast every few years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=41)