# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/841 "2015-12-27T06:29:27Z")
> [@bienville](#): > > So, **Jophiel** and **SlackerInc** , if you went on Friday for “opening night” screenings then you weren’t really there for opening night. All the super excitable fans had seen it the night before (I saw it at 10:35pm Thursday). Probably a significant number of the people in your audiences were already on their second viewing. I didn’t say it was opening night. 😛 And even if it had been, it was the late showing, so it wouldn’t be people who wanted to see it at the very first opportunity. Still, I think there are a lot of people who go to movies on Friday night, especially the late showing, just as part of “going out Friday night”. > [@Hampshire](#): > > So what are we to make of the fact that Luke’s lines from the trailer never made it into the movie: “The force is strong in my family. My father has it, I have it, my sister has it. You have that power too.” > Is that something Luke says to Rey that got cut? Perhaps and ending shot of the movie that they decided would work better as the opening shot of part 8? Ugh, another reason I hate trailers: when they’re not spoiling the movie, they are putting in stuff that _isn’t in the movie_. That should be, like, false advertising or something. > [@AK84](#): > > Don’t have the energy to read through an 11 page thread… …posted on page 19 of the thread. 😕 > [@Oredigger77](#): > > In general the movie seemed sborter and faster paced the second time. That’s interesting, because I definitely checked my watch several times, impatiently, in the first 90 minutes. > [@Penfeather](#): > > This is just lazy, cynical pandering. [Yup:](http://www.vox.com/2015/12/21/10445616/star-wars-hollywood-nostalgia-problem) > [@](#): > > Every time Disney puts out a Star Wars movie, the studio isn’t just betting a few hundred million dollars; it’s risking the entire future of the franchise — and the billions of dollars in potential revenue it represents. In other words, films like The Force Awakens and its ilk represent an incredible financial risk. And that’s why studios generally choose to play it as safe as possible. > > Pop culture nostalgia isn’t just a feeling — it’s a business strategy. And as the mammoth box office returns for both Jurassic World and The Force Awakens suggest, when it’s executed reasonably well, the payoffs can be huge. But while it’s understandable, it’s also disappointing for fans who want something new, not just more of the same. > […] > George Lucas drew upon his personal nostalgia to create something that, in its particular combination of references and allusions, felt thrillingly, excitingly new. J.J. Abrams, by contrast, drew upon Star Wars fans’ collective nostalgia to produce a film that is expressly designed to feel like something we’ve all seen before. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/842 "2015-12-27T08:12:52Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Calm down. It’s not clear to me because I don’t remember his exact words. Thank you for your clarification on this matter. Also calm down. I’m calm, I’m just amazed that this question keeps popping up on every page. ---
**Author:** ![It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/it_s_not_rocket_surgery/32/312_2.png) [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/It_s_Not_Rocket_Surgery)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/843 "2015-12-27T09:01:43Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Ugh, another reason I hate trailers: when they’re not spoiling the movie, they are putting in stuff that _isn’t in the movie_. That should be, like, false advertising or something. Yeah, but Abrams [didn’t finish editing the movie until November 21st](http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/23/jj-abrams-completes-final-cut-star-wars-the-force-awakens). Some of those trailers came out a year ago. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/844 "2015-12-27T11:32:27Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Probably got all ratty after however many years on Space Ireland It was skeletal before Luke left - when he places his hand on R2 in the vision, it’s already like that. maybe he’s beyond appearances now. Or he’s a Charlize Theron fan… > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Did C3P0 get his gold arm back at the end? I mean the very, very end. When Rey and Chewbacca take off to go see Luke on the Millennium Falcon, he waves to them. Does he have his gold arm back in that one scene? IIRC he still had the red one. > [@D18](#): > > I haven’t had time to read the entire thread before I go to sleep, so apologies if this has been addressed, but despite the fact I loved the movie, one basic mistake bugged me. Light sabers can only be deflected with another light saber or electrostaff ([cite](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber), but when Fin was fighting the storm trooper, the former was deflecting the light saber with his blaster. That wasn’t a blaster, it was a [riot baton](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Z6_riot_control_baton) (Look, the same source as your cite! How’s that for consistency 😉 ) Anyway, in the old EU, there were _[crabs](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vonduun_Skerr_Kyrric)_ and _[snakes](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Amphistaff)_ which were impervious to lightsabers. God, I hated the Yuuzhan Vong arc. The EU is deservedly thrown out, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/845 "2015-12-27T11:36:48Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > His name is Lor San Tekka\*. He is supposedly an old member of the Rebel Alliance from the pre-Death Star days, and is possibly going to turn up in younger form in either the animated series _Star Wars Rebels_ or the new prequel “Anthology” movie _Rogue One_ due out next year. Or then again, perhaps he isn’t, and his mystery and significance will be preserved for a while yet. Apparently one of the new novels has something about him following “The Church of the Force”, whatever that is.[/SIZE] Strikes me as a rebranding, like the “Resistance” or “First Order”. IOW, he’s a Jedi under a different name. > [@msmith537](#): > > I agree with one review I read that said the greatness of Episode VII will be determined by VIII and IX. If those are basically remakes of Empire and Jedi, then Star Wars will have become Spider Man or Batman, retelling the same origin story with a new cast every few years. But it’s not even a new cast. That might not have bothered me as much. For instance, I liked _The Amazing Spider-Man_ better than any of the Tobey Maguire films, and more than almost any superhero film (which is high praise, as I am positively inclined toward that genre as a default). And that was a completely unapologetic retelling of the origin story. But if Maguire and Spider-Man had been hanging out in the background while we saw the nearly identical birth of “Spider-Boy” or something like that? No. Not okay. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > I saw it opening weekend at 1:40 and the theater was half-full. To be fair, they had screenings in 2D every 40 minutes and 3D screenings between those. > > With that many screenings, which I imagine most theaters are doing, it’s hard to fill every theater all the time. My town’s theatre only has six showings a day (3 in 2D, 3 in 3D), and my showing (Friday the 18th, 9pm) was only about 60% full. But the manager said 3D shows always do lower business, because (according to him) people don’t like paying the surcharge. > [@coremelt](#): > > Along similar lines I’m convinced the only reason for C-3PO’s red arm is so that they can sell a new toy which is visually distinctive from the old C-3PO figures. There seems no other purpose to it that I can see. Oh wow, I’ve been cynical about their motives but I hadn’t even thought of that. I bet you’re right though. :smack: But what about Artoo? > [@It\_s\_Not\_Rocket\_Surgery](#): > > Yeah, but Abrams [didn’t finish editing the movie until November 21st](http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/nov/23/jj-abrams-completes-final-cut-star-wars-the-force-awakens). Some of those trailers came out a year ago. Still, the film’s director should have “final cut” over the trailers too, and not let anything in them they aren’t sure they are going to put in the movie. Then live with that decision later, and don’t cut anything that’s in the trailer. JMO ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/846 "2015-12-27T11:41:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > IIRC he still had the red one. He had two gold legs, though. That’s new. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/847 "2015-12-27T12:17:00Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Strikes me as a rebranding, like the “Resistance” or “First Order”. IOW, he’s a Jedi under a different name. He didn’t whip out a lightsaber or show the least inkling of force abilities, though. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/848 "2015-12-27T13:42:56Z")
Neither did “Ben” Kenobi (his obvious inspiration) after such little time on screen. Why would he join a “church of the Force” without any Force abilities? Just a wannabe, albeit one who is trusted on this high level? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/849 "2015-12-27T13:44:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > It was skeletal before Luke left - when he places his hand on R2 in the vision, it’s already like that. > > maybe he’s beyond appearances now. Ah, missed that bit (the 3D stuff really affects my ability to catch quick details). Probably the ‘beyond appearances’ thing, then. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/850 "2015-12-27T13:57:01Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Ah, missed that bit (the 3D stuff really affects my ability to catch quick details). > > Probably the ‘beyond appearances’ thing, then. Come to think of it, THE moment in _Return of the Jedi_ is when Luke, having just cut off Vader’s hand, looks down at his own robot hand and gingerly steps back from the dark side, sparking Palpatine’s reaction and, if you will, the return of the Jedi. So instead of ‘beyond appearances’, it could be he always wants that reminder… (•_•) ( •_•)\>⌐■-■ (⌐■\_■) …on hand. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/851 "2015-12-27T14:48:41Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > - When Kylo Ren first meets Rey he says “the girl I’ve heard so much about”. Does that mean anything? It seems an odd thing to say given that in the movie Kylo only hears about her in connection with BB-8. The Force Awakens, just like the title says. Other Force adepts, and there aren’t many at the time, can feel it awaken in her. > [@](#): > > - Leia and Rey have an emotional hug when Rey returns from Starkiller but this is the first time they meet in the movie. The movie makes it seem like they already know each other. Leia knows what happened with her own Force abilities. She knows who and what Rey is, and what she’s been through, and that they both need a hug right then. > [@](#): > > - The movie makes a point of showing how important it is to find Luke and when the Resistance finally finds his location they send…Rey? Alone (i.e. without another member of the Resistance). Pretty sure I saw Chewie and R2 just outside the Falcon, waving to her as she climbed the rock stairs. > [@](#): > > It could just be a sloppy story line but it seems like there are bits of the story we aren’t being told. Does anybody have thoughts on this? There are two more movies to wrap up the ones that matter, and a lifetime to fanwank the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/852 "2015-12-27T15:05:50Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Neither did “Ben” Kenobi (his obvious inspiration) after such little time on screen. Why would he join a “church of the Force” without any Force abilities? Just a wannabe, albeit one who is trusted on this high level? Plenty of people who can’t turn water to wine or cure lepers are nonetheless still Catholic. Maybe this church is for folks who believe in the Force and what it does, despite lacking the abilities to actually directly use it. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/853 "2015-12-27T15:13:27Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The Force Awakens, just like the title says. Other Force adepts, and there aren’t many at the time, can feel it awaken in her. And that translates to “the girl I’ve heard so much about”? Strange way to put it. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Leia knows what happened with her own Force abilities. She knows who and what Rey is, and what she’s been through, and that they both need a hug right then. I know Leia is Luke’s sister (hard to swallow: lamest retcon ever), but I’ve seen precious little evidence that she has Force abilities beyond a vague psychic connection to Luke (which seemed like it was him providing the “juice”). Certainly none in this movie. > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > There are two more movies to wrap up the ones that matter, and a lifetime to fanwank the rest. Seems like you’ve been getting a head start on the second part. 😉 > [@Raguleader](#): > > Plenty of people who can’t turn water to wine or cure lepers are nonetheless still Catholic. Maybe this church is for folks who believe in the Force and what it does, despite lacking the abilities to actually directly use it. Fair enough, but in our world there’s no other choice given that (IMO) “real” miracles don’t exist. I’d be willing to bet that guy was supposed to have at least a bit of Force with him. Certainly that is implied by his similarity to Obi-wan. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/854 "2015-12-27T15:24:02Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I know Leia is Luke’s sister (hard to swallow: lamest retcon ever), but I’ve seen precious little evidence that she has Force abilities beyond a vague psychic connection to Luke (which seemed like it was him providing the “juice”). Certainly none in this movie. did you notice how she reacted when Han was killed, even though he was a long ways away? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/855 "2015-12-27T15:34:38Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I saw it again today and have some thoughts on Rey: > > - When Kylo Ren first meets Rey he says “the girl I’ve heard so much about”. Does that mean anything? It seems an odd thing to say given that in the movie Kylo only hears about her in connection with BB-8. … My take was that he is aware of a prophecy of sorts involving “a girl whose mastery of the Force will rival your powers … but who with you can rule.” Or somesuch. The hug was with Rey coming back and Hans not. The mission to Luke was after it was clear that the Force is strong in Rey, yet still untrained, just awakening, and Leia bets that presenting that adept, with the saber, will be the best chance at pulling Luke back in. Or alternatively also knows of some version of the prophecy that Ren knows and knows that “a girl, powerful in the Force, will arise, and either be salvation or destruction.” And knows Luke knows that too. Yes she piloted there with Chewie and BB-8 … but still the case to Luke is her alone, as if in supplication. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/856 "2015-12-27T15:34:39Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Neither did “Ben” Kenobi (his obvious inspiration) after such little time on screen. The Ben Kenobi who detected a silent droid within 1 minute of us meeting him? And I’d like to think if someone was trying to kill him, he would have, since he didn’t hesitate in the cantina… > [@](#): > > Why would he join a “church of the Force” without any Force abilities? Seriously? Why do people become Christians when they can’t, themselves, rise out of their graves after 3 days? It’s a church that worships the Force, not a church only _for_ Force users, would be my reading of it. Backed up by the way the Rebellion used “May the Force be with you” as a pre-battle blessing [even amongst non-Force-users](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/May_the_Force_be_with_you#Non-Jedi). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/857 "2015-12-27T15:36:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Come to think of it, THE moment in _Return of the Jedi_ is when Luke, having just cut off Vader’s hand, looks down at his own robot hand and gingerly steps back from the dark side, sparking Palpatine’s reaction and, if you will, the return of the Jedi. > > So instead of ‘beyond appearances’, it could be he always wants that reminder… > > (•_•) > ( •_•)\>⌐■-■ > (⌐■\_■) > > …on hand. Oh, _well_ done! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/858 "2015-12-27T15:37:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Pretty sure I saw […] R2 just outside the Falcon, waving to her as she climbed the rock stairs. So, the secret Master of the Rebellion and now the Resistance was with her, is what you’re saying 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/859 "2015-12-27T15:41:24Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I know Leia is Luke’s sister (hard to swallow: lamest retcon ever), but I’ve seen precious little evidence that she has Force abilities beyond a vague psychic connection to Luke (which seemed like it was him providing the “juice”). What about the people who should know, outright saying she does (“There… is…another” “If _you_ will not turn to the Dark Side… then perhaps she _will_!”) ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/860 "2015-12-27T15:43:29Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > did you notice how she reacted when Han was killed, even though he was a long ways away? No. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=44)