# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 51
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1001 "2015-12-30T07:28:33Z")
> [@FluffyBob](#): > > Adam Driver made an imposing bad guy, and with a face like that of course the mask has to come off. What does that mean? I thought he was fugly as sin in the movie. Although he was quite svelte also, I’ll hand him that. Biggest problem with the mask is although it’s cool, he has no damn reason to wear it at all. At least Vader had the angle where his whole suit was a life support system for him, so it’s a convenient excuse to look like a badass. Since he’s clearly just wearing it to be cool and for no other reason, that kind of automatically makes him less cool. It’s a rule or something. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1002 "2015-12-30T07:48:12Z")
Well fugly sure, but he has a crazy face. And masks are stupid yes. Darth had an excuse, the stormtroopers needed them cause they can’t have faces. Kylo wears one because Star Wars!! I guess. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1003 "2015-12-30T07:55:32Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Oh yeah - another nit. How big are these planets? “Let’s head over to the Dagoba system and find this one guy.” Really? You wouldn’t want to narrow it down to a hemisphere at least? They do the same thing a couple other times. so? wasting time on that would make for a really boring film. boring fluff is a big reason the prequels sucked. “Oh, we haven’t found Anakin yet? let’s send Jedi to broker trade disputes.” “Oh, Anakin hasn’t taken a step towards the dark side yet? let’s have the Jedi be bodyguards for half of the film.” ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1004 "2015-12-30T08:23:02Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > Huh. I had understood him to be saying he’s already planning to do the thing Calrissian said to do. “Already on the way out that way to do that thing…” > > But now I see (after reading the above and rewatching the battle of Endor scene) that he’s saying he’s already on the way out away from the area because the job is practically done etc like you said. > > Hrm. This whole Wedge Antilles thing kind of bothers me. I’ve never, not even once, ever noticed him–he feels to me like an extra with lines. But lots of people glommed onto him as an interesting and representative figure, and probably my tending to ignore him is exactly in line with what people are taking him to represent. What I can’t figure out is how intentional this was on the part of the filmmakers. Does he in fact have a major role to play in the story and I have failed to notice it? Or does he in fact have only a minor role to play and others have done the good work of reinterpreting it? I always thought of him as an extra with lines, he just happens to have one really good one. Last week I could’ve quoted that line and told you why I liked it without being able to name the character who said it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1005 "2015-12-30T08:27:33Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Biggest problem with the mask is although it’s cool, he has no damn reason to wear it at all. Other than his obsession with his masked grandfather, you mean… ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1006 "2015-12-30T10:08:39Z")
What makes Wedge Antilles interesting is he’s the only non-main character in all three episodes of the original trilogy, the only one from the Battle of Yavin to go on to survive the other major battles besides Luke. But then he was made into a main character in the EU, with the popular [Rogue Squadron books](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_X-wing_%28book_series%29). I think that’s what really made him “famous”. I think of Poe Dameron not just the Wedge of the series, but the Lando too. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1007 "2015-12-30T11:08:15Z")
I wonder if Wedge is in _Rogue One_? Or Vader/Palpy et al. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1008 "2015-12-30T11:11:21Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Biggest problem with the mask is although it’s cool, he has no damn reason to wear it at all. At least Vader had the angle where his whole suit was a life support system for him, so it’s a convenient excuse to look like a badass. Since he’s clearly just wearing it to be cool and for no other reason, that kind of automatically makes him less cool. It’s a rule or something. Maybe it’s all a big setup…like, the mask _itself_ is evil, some ancient artifact imbued with the ghosts/dark side energies of ancient Sith masters, not unlike [Doctor Fate](http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Helmet_of_Fate), and he was studying/screwing around with during his Jedi training, and it quickly corrupted him. This would also significantly raise the chances that at some point, the Mask will end up [possessing a hideous carcass for a final fight scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiTSyZbIjAg), at least. (Or maybe there were just a sale on cool helmets at Hoth Topic when he was puttin’ together his ensemble.) ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1009 "2015-12-30T11:28:29Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I wonder if Wedge is in _Rogue One_? > Or Vader/Palpy et al. It’s not clear at all yet, but there’s reasonable expectation that Vader will be in it, and because the Death Star is Tarkin’s responsibility, his appearance is also possible (some think that’s who Ben Mendelsohn is playing). As a maker\* of Star Wars fanfilms, I am really fascinated by this one. \*_by association_ ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1010 "2015-12-30T13:06:51Z")
Some early ideas / possible deleted scenes: > **[The Dismembering Wookiee!! The Snowspeeder Chase!! And More That Didn’t Quite...](http://legacy.aintitcool.com/node/74063)** > > The Dismembering Wookiee!! The Snowspeeder Chase!! And More That Didn’t Quite Get Into EPISODE VII!! Brian ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1011 "2015-12-30T13:06:54Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > It’s not clear at all yet, but there’s reasonable expectation that Vader will be in it, and because the Death Star is Tarkin’s responsibility, his appearance is also possible (some think that’s who Ben Mendelsohn is playing). > > As a maker\* of Star Wars fanfilms, I am really fascinated by this one. > > \*_by association_ Hmmmm. Mads Mikelsen seems a better choice; he can play an amoral chacacter very well. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1012 "2015-12-30T13:43:03Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Hmmmm. Mads Mikelsen seems a better choice; he can play an amoral chacacter very well. Yeah, but he insists he’s playing a good character. It’s speculated he may be playing a young Lor San Tekka. [Here’s a pic](https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/38786500/tarkin_mendelsohn.jpg) I made of Ben Mendelsohn as Tarkin, just to show you how he may look, especially if they gave him some digital enhancement. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1013 "2015-12-30T14:07:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > so? wasting time on that would make for a really boring film. boring fluff is a big reason the prequels sucked. Perhaps - but even a partial line like “Head to the northern continent on the 3d planet…” or “The force will draw you together…” would have made it slightly less magicky. Watched ep2 yesterday. Not exactly sure why I’m putting myself through this other than as some test of endurance. But it is giving me some thoughts about this current cultural phenomenon. I hadn’t seen that one before. Have to imagine that after ep1 I swore off the prequels. Really have to wonder how, at some relatively early stage in the filming, someone didn’t realize the benefit of finding an attractive actor who could actually act somewhat. Of course, not sure how much Laurence Olivier could do with scripting like that! Maybe should toss this into the thread about whether good looks is enough in Hollywood. At least youngest Anakin had the excuse of being young… Confirms my prior thought that what appealed to so many folk was the story, not the films. (Tho - my daughter, who was a in grade school when ep1 came out, said she really loved that movie as a kid.) Makes me curious about the idea to reject the canon/EU for the new movies. Will be interesting to see how well they are able to appeal to their diverse audiences. From the discussion here, seems like they are keeping enough of their longtime “hardcore-ish” fans, and I suspect it will appeal to young/new audiences as much as any of the new fast action shoot-em-ups a la the Marvel-verse. My suspicion, tho, is that the financially sound decision was to say to heck with the longtime fanwankers, so long as you can make enough franchise marketing bucks off the new audience. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1014 "2015-12-30T14:12:33Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Maybe it’s all a big setup…like, the mask _itself_ is evil, some ancient artifact imbued with the ghosts/dark side energies of ancient Sith masters, not unlike [Doctor Fate](http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Helmet_of_Fate), and he was studying/screwing around with during his Jedi training, and it quickly corrupted him. > > This would also significantly raise the chances that at some point, the Mask will end up [possessing a hideous carcass for a final fight scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiTSyZbIjAg), at least. > > (Or maybe there were just a sale on cool helmets at Hoth Topic when he was puttin’ together his ensemble.) Perhaps this would explain why he set his helmet on that barrel full of ashes? Are they his grandfather’s remains? So while Kylo has the mask on, he’s actually inhaling the spirit of Vader? The mask did have a motorized frontal piece near the nose and mouth area. Anywho - saw it last night finally, and really really enjoyed it. I just wish we got more backstory as to how the First Order rose from the ashes of the Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Grsz11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Grsz11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grsz11)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1015 "2015-12-30T15:06:40Z")
Isn’t BB-8 just a droid Jar Jar? Very obviously meant for comedic effect and to sell a crapload of merchandise. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1016 "2015-12-30T15:26:14Z")
> [@Grsz11](#): > > Isn’t BB-8 just a droid Jar Jar? Very obviously meant for comedic effect and to sell a crapload of merchandise. I have largely blocked Jar-Jar from my mind, but I thought he was space Urkel. Did BB8 screw up anything? ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1017 "2015-12-30T15:34:20Z")
Saw it on Monday and then read this entire thread. People are entitled not to like it but it does sort of feel that they could never be satisfied. You can read similar reviews on IMDB where people give it 1 out of 10 and state they wished they were able to give 0. Which is of course ridiculous hyperbole. I think they did almost as well as it was possible to do all things considered and I can’t wait to see it again. The original films DID have a lot of plot holes and would never have been able to stand up to the sort of scrutiny that we are wringing this film out over - although perhaps stopping a ship so close to the Star Killer base whilst travelling at lightspeed with a manual countdown was pushing things a bit far - at least just say you’re using the computer! What I always loved about Star Wars was that they were the original action adventure films - practically creating a new genre - and all set in space: the ultimate playground for the imagination. And these films recaptured that spirit. And it LOOKED like a Star Wars film. And the fact that the best and most interesting parts of the film came from the new characters (Rey and Finn are superbly cast, written and acted - I’ll let the backstory dictate how amazing Rey’s rise was) bodes very well indeed for the rest of the series. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1018 "2015-12-30T15:52:36Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > People are entitled not to like it but it does sort of feel that they could never be satisfied. I could be satisfied by the new Star Wars film if it a) didn’t have so many and such obvious call backs b) had an original (to Star Wars) plot c) cleared up a little bit the relationship between the universe as it was at the end of ROTJ and how it is now in TFA, a couple of lines would have done it and d) had a little bit better acting and dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1019 "2015-12-30T15:57:58Z")
Amazing. I read the whole thread and there once one mention of something that puzzled me. So: At the start Rey is scavenging parts of the wreckage. (Independent operator, I think.) Next there’s a scene where she’s scrubbing corrosion off some part or other – and someone chastises her, evidently for not working harder/faster because Rey immediately redoubles her efforts. (So she has a boss? or an owner? I think.) Then comes the scene were she sells her bits’o’wreckage for a portion of pottage. (But if she’s in charge of selling her gleanings? Surely that makes her indedepent?) And, of course, everything after that makes it clear she’s on her own. So what are we supposed to make of the scene where she’s doing the refurbishing? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2015, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1020 "2015-12-30T15:59:03Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > I could be satisfied by the new Star Wars film if it > > a) didn’t have so many and such obvious call backs > b) had an original (to Star Wars) plot > c) cleared up a little bit the relationship between the universe as it was at the end of ROTJ and how it is now in TFA, a couple of lines would have done it > and > d) had a little bit better acting and dialogue. +1 Heck, it’s not ridiculously hard for a SW film to satisfy me - I mean I was satisfied by Ep3! I just wanted to see something other than a remake of ANH. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=50) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=52)