# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1061 "2015-12-31T01:40:01Z")
> [@joemama24\_98](#): > > What if Luke had, even briefly, descended to the dark side when Ren turned? Could Ren have perhaps turned him as well, perhaps only for a short time? What if Rey had to be protected from Luke, explaining her exile on Jakku? > > This is how I’d write it. It’s not necessarily clear where his mind is at near the end…he’s obviously conflicted, and likely has been for a long time. Heh. Imagine the reaction if the movie had played out exactly the same – _exactly_ the same – right up until the ending, where Luke Skywalker looks for all the world like a wise and weary Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Rey presents him with the lightsaber, which he promptly impales her with while doing the Joker laugh. [/end credits] ---
**Author:** ![joemama24\_98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce7236/32.png) [@joemama24\_98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joemama24_98)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1062 "2015-12-31T01:52:22Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Heh. Imagine the reaction if the movie had played out exactly the same – _exactly_ the same – right up until the ending, where Luke Skywalker looks for all the world like a wise and weary Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Rey presents him with the lightsaber, which he promptly impales her with while doing the Joker laugh. > > [/end credits] LOL. That would be shocking! I was thinking something similar, except as the opening to the next movie - same scene: she hands him his lightsaber, which he immediately ignites and holds against her throat. It’s not implausible that like Anakin, he has a child he never knew and Rey is it, and she’s either his end or his redemption and he’s learning of it now. A lot of Rey’s backstory could be explained by this. ---
**Author:** ![Sarabellum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarabellum/32/3492_2.png) [@Sarabellum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarabellum)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1063 "2015-12-31T04:25:12Z")
I just get this “red herring!” feeling whenever I see discussions on how certain everyone is that Rey is a Skywalker. They’re dropping all these hints, it’s almost too obvious that’s what they want the viewers to think. It doesn’t compute (for me) that Luke Skywalker, someone who was himself raised in obscurity and exile on a desert planet, could possibly sentence his own child to that fate, without even a foster family. So maybe he didn’t know about her being born, yeah, yeah… is Luke partial to drunken hookups? Jedi booty calls? So many groupies that he lost track? That answer doesn’t seem to fit, either. He knew about her, but she was somehow stolen from him or lost? Kidnapped? Hard to picture Luke helpless to find someone for that many years. Some sort of cloning or Darth Plagius type creation was involved in her conception, maybe? Then why is she untrained, and not a Sith herself? I don’t know, it just doesn’t sit well for me. Not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1064 "2015-12-31T04:46:49Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > I just get this “red herring!” feeling whenever I see discussions on how certain everyone is that Rey is a Skywalker. They’re dropping all these hints, it’s almost too obvious that’s what they want the viewers to think. I hear that, but whatever else that movie was, it wasn’t “twisty” (and despite all my criticisms, that’s not all bad–some movies throw in wild, illogical twists just for the sake of doing so, and I’m not a fan of that). Did they lampshade anything and then throw the audience a curve? If so, I’m not remembering it. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1065 "2015-12-31T05:10:37Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > I just get this “red herring!” feeling whenever I see discussions on how certain everyone is that Rey is a Skywalker. They’re dropping all these hints, it’s almost too obvious that’s what they want the viewers to think. I think, and I’m just guessing at this, that they originally planned to go down that route and reveal it as such within this movie, but then after Rian Johnson came on for Episode VIII he asked them not to do that, so he can deal with Rey his way, be it either as a twist reveal as Luke’s daughter, or to be not related to anyone we know after all. So the heavily dropped hints now don’t really go anywhere, and a few scenes (such as Rey hugging Leia, and then being sent alone to find Luke) no longer have any explanation. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@Go\_Arachnid\_Laser\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_Arachnid_Laser_1)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1066 "2015-12-31T05:22:51Z")
> [@Sarabellum1976](#): > > Some sort of cloning or Darth Plagius type creation was involved in her conception, maybe? Then why is she untrained, and not a Sith herself? If they want to follow the lore of the prequels, then Plagueis goes around magically impregnating random women without even touching them, and then forgets about them after the immaculate conception. That would make Rey Luke’s aunt, I guess. Then again, I don’t see Disney keeping with this particular storyline. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1067 "2015-12-31T06:04:25Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > … and a few scenes (such as Rey hugging Leia, and then being sent alone to find Luke) no longer have any explanation. I don’t think either of those scenes are without explanation if Rey isn’t his daughter. Leia hugged Rey because Rey was there when Solo died, and Rey had begun to care for him. As for delivering the lightsaber, she’s the only A-List force user left in the galaxy that anyone knows about. She was drawn to his saber. Who else should they have sent? Also, the Falcon can get there fastest, it’ll do .5 past lightspeed. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1068 "2015-12-31T06:24:29Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Leia hugged Rey because Rey was there when Solo died, and Rey had begun to care for him. As for delivering the lightsaber, she’s the only A-List force user left in the galaxy that anyone knows about. She was drawn to his saber. Who else should they have sent? Yeah, but she hadn’t even met Leia before. You could certainly argue those explanations, and they fit okay, but I’m fairly certain they aren’t the original intentions. ---
**Author:** ![GoodOldKJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GoodOldKJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoodOldKJ)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1069 "2015-12-31T06:52:37Z")
> **[Mashable](https://t.co/3G1qsK1E5a)** > > Mashable is a global, multi-platform media and entertainment company. Good article with some info gleaned from the just released novelization of the screenplay. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1070 "2015-12-31T07:43:08Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Yeah, but she hadn’t even met Leia before. They’re the only two force-sensitives (that we know of) on that landing pad. Pretty sure Rey could sense Leia’s pain. And vice versa. They would have been beacons to each other. ---
**Author:** ![MrLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f8ce5/32.png) [@MrLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrLee)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1071 "2015-12-31T10:18:54Z")
I sincerely hope that Rey is not related to Luke, Leia and/or Han. As [this article](http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/30/10669370/star-wars-rey-the-force-luke-skywalker-theory-jedi-kylo-ren) points out, it would be much more in keeping with the ethos of the 21st century ‘inclusive and diverse’ ethos of the film to make it that she is simply someone new. It would be pretty tiresome to make it that the Skywalkers are \*the only ones in the galaxy \*who can kick-ass with the force. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1072 "2015-12-31T10:21:56Z")
> [@obfusciatrist](#): > > Personally, I knew it with 98% certainty when Leia told him to bring their son back. Since they’d been following all emotional beats of Star Wars I figured that meant he was going to go the way of Obi Wan. > > I wasn’t bothered by him dying or knowing it was going to happen. What bothered me what exactly he and Leia were planning to do if they could get him to come home and be good. The guy just participated in destroying five planets and millions, if not billions, of people in addition to whatever he did to Luke’s Jedi Academy. But that would all be shrugged off if he hugged mommy and promised to play nice going forward? When Han said, “Come home; we miss you,” I almost expected him to add, “Your bedroom is just the way you left it.” I agree that the scene was telegraphed and you could see Han’s death coming from a mile away, but Adam Driver REALLY sold it with some terrific acting. For a moment I really believed he might go back with Han. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1073 "2015-12-31T11:55:01Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > They’re the only two force-sensitives (that we know of) on that landing pad. Pretty sure Rey could sense Leia’s pain. And vice versa. They would have been beacons to each other. You don’t need the Force, only normal human empathy, to know when the other person needs a hug as much as you do. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1074 "2015-12-31T12:02:08Z")
> [@MrLee](#): > > I sincerely hope that Rey is not related to Luke, Leia and/or Han. As [this article](http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/30/10669370/star-wars-rey-the-force-luke-skywalker-theory-jedi-kylo-ren) points out, it would be much more in keeping with the ethos of the 21st century ‘inclusive and diverse’ ethos of the film to make it that she is simply someone new. It would be pretty tiresome to make it that the Skywalkers are \*the only ones in the galaxy \*who can kick-ass with the force. “Rey, your father was the best star pilot I’d ever met, and a cunning warrior.” “My father was Luke Skywalker?” “What? No, I think that old monk is still a virgin. Your dad was Wedge Antilles.” ---
**Author:** ![joemama24\_98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce7236/32.png) [@joemama24\_98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joemama24_98)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1075 "2015-12-31T13:00:31Z")
Luke had a wife – call her Mara Jade to continue with that tradition. Mara was pregnant but either did not know yet or had not told Luke yet when Ben turned into Ren. During that event Luke lost his mind – pain, fear, suffering, etc. and turned to the dark side. He rages against Ren and his followers and sends them fleeing to the First Order, causing a lot of collateral damage in the process. In fear for her life and that of her unborn child, Mara flees to Jakku, where she has an ally in Lor San Tekka. She gives birth to Rey in secret, as she’s unsure of where Luke (or Leia or Han’s) heads are at. Luke eventually comes back to the light side, but knowing his inner turmoil and emotional state represent a dark side threat to everyone, he goes into self-imposed exile. He leaves a map, hoping that the only people that can help him (Mara, Han, Leia) will eventually forgive him for what he perceives as his fault and come find him. Mara, now knowing Luke has exiled himself and sensing the threat growing in Ren and the First Order, knows she has to find Luke and bring him back as a matter of priority. Mara and Lor San Tekka raise Rey (Lor San as “grandpa” or perhaps just a father figure) until she’s self-sufficient enough that they can leave her to go on their search. Much like a young bird who knows how to fly without understanding physics nor aerodynamics, Rey’s innate Force abilities allow her to channel it when needed the most. Perhaps Mara trained her some as well, but never told her of the Jedi or the real history of it. She begins to recognize and explore her abilities in The Force Awakens. They eventually find the piece of the map, with Mara losing her life in the process. Lor San Tekka returns to Jakku to keep a watchful but distant eye over Rey. He does not want to disrupt her by coming backing into her life and telling her that her mother is dead, and that he is not related to her by blood. He knows eventually she will discover her relation to Luke, especially if he’s been located and is brought back into the fold. He’ll come looking for Mara and likely find Rey. So, he reaches out to Leia, telling her that he has an important clue to Luke’s whereabouts, bringing Ren’s attention to Jakku where all the backstories collide. He may or may not have told Leia that Rey is her niece. If Leia knows, she’s not ready to reveal it to Rey upon meeting her. Much like R2D2 understood the full backstory in the prequels but did not tell anyone, Chewie assumes everyone knows Rey is Luke’s offspring because to his Wookie nose, she clearly smells like a Skywalker. However, he assumes this is obvious to everyone and does not say a word. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1076 "2015-12-31T13:30:29Z")
> [@erysichthon](#): > > When Han said, “Come home; we miss you,” I almost expected him to add, “Your bedroom is just the way you left it.” > > I agree that the scene was telegraphed and you could see Han’s death coming from a mile away, but Adam Driver REALLY sold it with some terrific acting. For a moment I really believed he might go back with Han. He did…but the point made upthread is really valid: come home to what? He’s got to be thrown in prison for life at the least. Which raises a question: if you did imprison someone like him, how would you do it? Marvel has all kinds of interesting prisons for supervillains (my favorite being the all-plastic one for Magneto); what could the Republic or Resistance come up with for Ren? ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1077 "2015-12-31T14:25:53Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Because, as we can see, they did a terrible job raising Ben and didn’t want to repeat their mistakes. Ben turned to the darkside. Maybe hiding Rey, for some reason not yet explained, was intended to help prevent that. > > We don’t know how old Rey is, or, to put a fine point on it, we don’t know how much younger Rey is than Kylo Ren. It’s possible that the timeline was: Kylo Ren turns to the dark side, and then Han and Leia split because of the strain caused by their parenting failure. Han is traipsing across the galaxy with no contact with Leia. Only then does Leia learn that she is pregnant. She later delivers Rey and for (reasons) chooses to leave her on Jakku. Meanwhile, Han doesn’t even know she exists. This seems highly unlikely to me only because Rey remembers being abandoned. She would have recognized and acknowledged Leia if Leia were her mother. Unless Rey’s separation from Leia was during infancy. But then we would an explanation for the separation from Leia and another for the abandonment on Jakku. > > Again, it’s at least possible that Han didn’t know that he had a daughter with Leia. And didn’t Han die right after seeing Kylo Ren? That kind of explains why he never said anything to Leia about seeing their son. Well, as I said before there’s nothing in the story that precludes this, but I really hope they don’t go for some credulity-stretching scenarios like you’ve suggested. At any rate, we’ll know the answer by - oh, 75 minutes into Episode VIII? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1078 "2015-12-31T14:46:30Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Again, it’s at least possible that Han didn’t know that he had a daughter with Leia. And didn’t Han die right after seeing Kylo Ren? That kind of explains why he never said anything to Leia about seeing their son. Han saw Ren at Maz’s palace/bar, and I’m pretty sure when Leia landed he told her that he saw him. That’s what started their discussion about her losing both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1079 "2015-12-31T14:56:55Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Yeah, but she hadn’t even met Leia before. You could certainly argue those explanations, and they fit okay, but I’m fairly certain they aren’t the original intentions. Rey is strong in the Force. Leia is strong in the Force. They don’t need to have met before to sense that they’ve shared a common loss. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2015, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1080 "2015-12-31T15:04:47Z")
> [@GoodOldKJ](#): > > [http://on.mash.to/1NPwtl2](https://t.co/3G1qsK1E5a) > Good article with some info gleaned from the just released novelization of the screenplay. Very interesting indeed - thanks! > [@MrDibble](#): > > They’re the only two force-sensitives (that we know of) on that landing pad. Pretty sure Rey could sense Leia’s pain. And vice versa. They would have been beacons to each other. A nice thought. I like it. > [@SlackerInc](#): > > …Which raises a question: if you did imprison someone like him, how would you do it? Marvel has all kinds of interesting prisons for supervillains (my favorite being the all-plastic one for Magneto); what could the Republic or Resistance come up with for Ren? The eternal dilemma of prisons for supervillains! If it’s secure, the bad guys are locked away and can’t come out and get involved in the storyline; if it’s not secure, they escape all the time (Arkham Asylum, anyone?) and it’s a laughable waste of taxpayers’ funds. > [@Lobohan](#): > > …Also, the Falcon can get there fastest, it’ll do .5 past lightspeed. Which reminds me: the MF ran _awfully_ well for a piece of junk - Rey said it herself - that had been sitting there on Jakku for who knows how long. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=55)