# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 69
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1361 "2016-01-11T01:58:26Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > “…do I talk first, or do you talk first? I talk first?” That was such a Joss Whedon kind of line. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1362 "2016-01-11T02:34:00Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > What really disappointed me was the dialogue. The original trilogy was so full of quotable lines. In this one I find it hard to recall \*any \*specific lines. You have to admit, this movie gave Chewbacca the best lines he’s had in any of the series. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1363 "2016-01-11T02:38:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > “What do they look like?” > “… They look like that!” “This is what people in the Resistance look like. Some of us.” ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1364 "2016-01-11T02:41:48Z")
“You probably don’t recognize me, because of the red arm.” ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1365 "2016-01-11T02:43:46Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You have to admit, this movie gave Chewbacca the best lines he’s had in any of the series. Chewy rules in the movie. It really is his best appearance. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1366 "2016-01-11T03:01:23Z")
> [@botsgotme](#): > > I think the thetres are lying about the “sold out” status of TFA. We saw it at a Showcase Cinema-they said that the 7 PM show was 'sold out"-at least half the seats were empty. No, I’m saying that theater was packed solid. I’m not basing that on a theater’s numbers. I’m basing it on having to sit in the front row 15 minutes before showtime. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1367 "2016-01-11T03:01:27Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I was about to post speculation the \*\*Rey \*\*is related to Lando Calrissian, but I notice a couple of other people in the thread beat me to it. Finn :smack: That’s another thing, the character names are so forgettable. I kept thinking, what was his name again? For Rey, Ren and Finn. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1368 "2016-01-11T03:07:18Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Chewy rules in the movie. It really is his best appearance. And not a single grey hair! I really need to find out who his stylist is. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1369 "2016-01-11T03:31:04Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > And not a single grey hair! I really need to find out who his stylist is. [Chewbacca is, canonically, 230 years old as of Episode VII.](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Chewbacca) I hope I look that good at that age. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1370 "2016-01-11T04:17:15Z")
Lupita Nyong’o, on the other hand, really let herself go after her 800th birthday. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1371 "2016-01-11T04:22:38Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > That’s another thing, the character names are so forgettable. I kept thinking, what was his name again? For Rey, Ren and Finn. [Just to clear up some of the confusion.](https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/956_790677334372003_1947172268702756354_n.jpg?oh=48e016d08f642e5cb6cf9d5b8ad28a3c&oe=573E35D6) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1372 "2016-01-11T04:57:04Z")
heh 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1373 "2016-01-11T13:09:53Z")
Saw it yesterday. I haven’t read this thread (didn’t want to spoil anything), so forgive anything that repeats what’s been said above (possibly all of it). 1.) Entertaining. I’m not the world’s biggest J.J. Abrams fan (hated _Lost_), but I liked this better than his Star Trek outings. 2.) As in his Star Trek movies, he tries to bring in as many references to the Original Series as possible (Look! It’s the Training Ball Luke used in the first movie!), but wasn’t as obsessive or as over-the-top as in the Star Trek films. 3.) I liked his idea which really lies at the center of the action, of treating one of the faceless Storm Troopers as an individual – what _would_ happen if one of them developed a conscience? 4.) I’m a compulsive credit watcher. I really didn’t think there’d be any sort of aftercredit sequence, but I wanted to see them anyway. It was good to see so much of the Old Guard back – not just the return of the on-screen actors from the original, but the behind-the-scenes contributors. Lawrence Kasdan co-wrote the screenplay. John Williams did the music. Ben Burtt did sound design. They brought back Phil Tippett to do animation (for the “chess” game on the Millennium Falcon). Kenny Baker was there as a consultant. I didn’t see Ron Cobb listed, but they seem to have used more of his ideas that hadn’t made the first film. Apparently they asked Dennis Lawson to come back as Wedge Antilles, but he turned them down ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1374 "2016-01-11T13:37:45Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Another stray thought is that the masks are movie-symbolic of how Stormtroopers (and Ren) are cut off from the people they are oppressing. No eye contact and no face-to-face interaction. It’s easier to oppress people you don’t identify with. > [@CalMeacham](#): > > 3.) I liked his idea which really lies at the center of the action, of treating one of the faceless Storm Troopers as an individual – what _would_ happen if one of them developed a conscience? Playing with these two ideas, this is actually a pretty big change for the positive from the old episodes. Stormtrooper masks symbolize how the soldiers are cut off fromt he people they’re oppressing; at the same time, they act to dehumanize the soldiers behind the masks. Stormtroopers, like zombies and Nazis, are perfect movie villains because they so clearly deserve to die. They don’t have names or faces or identities beyond the “Villain–Please Shoot” banners hanging over their heads. Finn changes that. Now they’re hapless kids conscripted into a vicious military, who face almost certain execution if they refuse orders. Not quite child soldiers, but not **not** child soldiers, either. The scene where Finn gets a stormtrooper’s blood on his mask–isn’t this the first time we’ve seen that Stormtroopers can bleed? It’s not to say that the good guys are bad guys for blasting them, but it makes it a little more complicated. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1375 "2016-01-11T14:32:59Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Finn: “We’ll let the Force guide us.” > Han: “That’s not how the Force works!” My eight-year-old’s favorite bit in the movie. > [@](#): > > Rey: “You will undo my bindings and leave the room with the door open.” > JB-007: “I think I’ll tighten your bindings.” > Rey: “_You will undo my bindings and leave the room with the door open._” > JB-007: “I will undo my bindings and leave the room with the door open.” > (he does so) > Rey: “And you will leave your weapon on the floor.” > JB-007: “And I will leave my weapon on the floor.” Her second-favorite bit in the movie. (Her third-favorite bit: BB-8 giving Finn the thumbs-up.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1376 "2016-01-11T14:48:25Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > I was about to post speculation[that Finn] is related to Lando Calrissian, but I notice a couple of other people in the thread beat me to it. Yeaaaaaaah right. The only two black characters other than Mace Windu with more than one line in the SW universe; they _must_ be related. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1377 "2016-01-11T15:28:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Playing with these two ideas, this is actually a pretty big change for the positive from the old episodes. Stormtrooper masks symbolize how the soldiers are cut off fromt he people they’re oppressing; at the same time, they act to dehumanize the soldiers behind the masks. Stormtroopers, like zombies and Nazis, are perfect movie villains because they so clearly deserve to die. They don’t have names or faces or identities beyond the “Villain–Please Shoot” banners hanging over their heads. > > Finn changes that. Now they’re hapless kids conscripted into a vicious military, who face almost certain execution if they refuse orders. Not quite child soldiers, but not **not** child soldiers, either. The scene where Finn gets a stormtrooper’s blood on his mask–isn’t this the first time we’ve seen that Stormtroopers can bleed? > > It’s not to say that the good guys are bad guys for blasting them, but it makes it a little more complicated. I thought that was really interesting too, as was the switch to Finn as a main protagonists rather than Poe the generic dashing pilot. I thought we’d see a story about the stormtrooper who had to fight to overcome his programming, or who even could raise genuine grievances with the Republic/Rebellion. But any commitment to that idea or the idea that stormtroopers weren’t a faceless horde was abandoned when Finn shot a bunch of them dead without even blinking. The descent back into dehumanised drones it’s OK to kill was pretty quick from that point on. How many of these hapless kids did we feel sorry for when they died? For me, it was none. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1378 "2016-01-11T15:34:53Z")
That’s a really good point, and I didn’t even consider it during the movie. There’s a brief conversation that makes clear that Finn’s behavior is an aberration, but it _also_ makes clear that there are protocols in place for troopers who exhibit that kind of behavior (reconditioning). On the other hand, “TR-8R” became an instant fan favorite - not only because he’s a badass but because he displayed actual emotion. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1379 "2016-01-11T15:42:10Z")
…and then got shot, to general approbation. He thought Finn was a traitor - did TR-8R know Finn personally? Was Finn losing because he was outmatched, or because he was reluctant to go on the attack against an old friend? Could Finn persuade his old buddy Terr to switch sides too? Interesting questions the answers to which don’t matter, because he’s dead now. And as soon as he dropped, the action shifted to the people who really matter, and the rest of their battle with the faceless hordes of the First Order. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2016, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1380 "2016-01-11T15:57:20Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > He thought Finn was a traitor - did TR-8R know Finn personally? [His real name was FN-2199.](http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/FN-2199) He and Finn were squadmates. Finn called him “Nines”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=68) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=70)