# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1421 "2016-01-13T13:10:15Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Well, there is a #starwarsjacketspeculation hashtag on Twitter.😃 Twitter also has a fight between Emo Kylo Ren and Very Lonely Luke. > **[This Twitter spat between Emo Kylo Ren and Very Lonely Luke is what the...](https://entertainment.ie/trending/this-twitter-spat-between-emo-kylo-ren-and-very-lonely-luke-is-what-the-internet-was-made-for-335148/)** > > Be warned, there's some spoilers for The Force Awakens below.But, seriously, if you haven't seen it at this stage, we've no sympathy for you.You might have se... ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1422 "2016-01-13T17:10:36Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > Speaking as a swordsman, there is also the fact that an inferior swordsman can hold off a much better one for a long time, as long as they can keep retreating–which is exactly what Rey did through much of the fight. As she kept moving, Ren’s resources–energy, concentration, and blood–continued to ebb. When she was finally cornered, she shut her eyes, and we heard the Force theme. My guess is that in that moment, she opened her mind to the lightsaber for the first time since her initial traumatic contact with it. The lightsaber was imprinted by its two previous wielders (or so we might infer from her vision upon touching it), both of whom _had_ been trained to wield it. She let the Force guide her, no longer relying on her own skill, but on the skills of Anakin and Luke, lingering in the weapon they once wielded. Neither was a master when they held that lightsaber, but their skills, combined with Ren’s weakened condition, were enough to enable Rey to prevail. > > In fact, that could explain a lot of the preternatural competence of Force-sensitives. If the Force retains patterns left behind by previous sensitives and Force-users, then anything they’ve used could have “echoes” of their skills imprinted on it, and a sensitive could be guided by those traces. I believe it’s been argued that Force was actually strong with Han, though he never actively used or acknowledged it. Could the _Falcon_ itself have guided Rey in flying it? > > The ultimate expression of this would be the Force ghosts, active, aware patterns encoded in the Force…or would it? What about the way history seems to repeat itself when Force wielders are driving it? Could the entire cycle have become embedded in the Force itself, nudging both Light and Dark Side users along established paths? Excellent fanwank! ---
**Author:** ![Totenfeier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@Totenfeier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Totenfeier)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1423 "2016-01-13T17:25:43Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I like that one. But you know, I was thinking about it, and what if Han _didn’t_ die? > > What if, as he’s falling down that chasm, a spaceship that happens to be flying through the maintenance shafts below picks him up with a tractor beam to break his fall (hey, it’s Star Wars, why not?). It turns out to be piloted by none other than Han’s old buddy, Lando Calrissian! They immediately begin patching up his lightsaber wounds with the best tech available, which happens to require that he wear a life-supporting suit of black armor (complete with face-concealing helmet) to sustain himself. > > In order to get more in touch with his son, Han decides to learn the ways of the force, and becomes Vader II in the process. We as the audience don’t see any of this happen, but in Episode VIII, Vader II makes his appearance and quickly rises to prominence in the First Order. Kylo Ren is of course immediately intrigued by the new Vader, and makes arrangements to meet him. > > In Episode IX, Ren and Vader II finally come to face to face. On another long bridge over a seemingly bottomless chasm (I mean, where else?). Vader II says to him: > > “Do you remember what happened to your father?” > > “Yeah of course I do, I killed him,” says Ren. > > “No, Ben. **_I_ am your father!!!** ” > > At which point Vader II takes off his mask to reveal that it was actually Han all along. And then he cuts off Kylo’s leg with his lightsaber while Kylo screams the Big No. > > Yep, that’s how I want to see the series end. Rigamarole, this - is just stunning. Get in touch with the next two directors immediately. –But could I also please beg for an after-credits scene of Vader II sneaking up behind Leia with an Imperial torture droid, and saying, "And now, General, let us discuss…(Closeup of hypo - “wowowowo” effect - snap to black?) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1424 "2016-01-13T17:27:40Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Excellent fanwank! Quite so. Especially since we know that Rey had a powerfully vivid Force vision just by touching that light saber for the first time. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1425 "2016-01-13T17:35:41Z")
I saw the movie over the weekend. It was good, I thought. But Kylo Ren was deeply unsatisfying as an antagonist. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1426 "2016-01-13T17:57:10Z")
Saw it again last night. I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this in 1425 posts, but when Leia mentions Snoke, she says “She,” and when Han mentions Snoke, he says “He.” So, is that a mistake, or intentional?.. Also, I caught a pretty big continuity error. When the Resistance goes to attack the Star Killer base, they pass right by the weapon’s I/O port, and it’s not charging - but it should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1427 "2016-01-13T18:25:51Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this in 1425 posts, but when Leia mentions Snoke, she says “She,” and when Han mentions Snoke, he says “He.” > > So, is that a mistake, or intentional?.. As I understand it, Snoke was intended to be female at some point in the production process before they decided on making him a man instead, so this might be an oversight, or it might be an actual gaffe that they left in as an Easter egg. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1428 "2016-01-13T19:58:45Z")
Maybe they decided Snoke should be genderfluid or non-binary because if angry internet randos are complaining about women and black people anyway why not go all-in? ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1429 "2016-01-13T21:21:33Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Saw it again last night. > > I don’t know if anyone has mentioned this in 1425 posts, but when Leia mentions Snoke, she says “She,” and when Han mentions Snoke, he says “He.” > > So, is that a mistake, or intentional?.. Intentional. Snoke is to be revealed as a paper mache character made from The Doctor’s psychic paper. When anyone sees Snoke, they see what they want. Leia sees a female, Han a male. > [@beowulff](#): > > Also, I caught a pretty big continuity error. > When the Resistance goes to attack the Star Killer base, they pass right by the weapon’s I/O port, and it’s not charging - but it should have been. It was there…just hidden behind a lens flare. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1430 "2016-01-13T21:26:35Z")
I didn’t hear any pronoun mixup either time I saw it. J.J. Abrams hints that Harrison Ford oughta get an Oscar nod: [Star Wars The Force Awakens: J.J. Abrams hints Harrison Ford deserves Oscar nomination | EW.com](http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/09/harrison-ford-oscar-nomination) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1431 "2016-01-14T06:23:48Z")
> [@chizzuk](#): > > And whenever there’s a catwalk in Star Wars, one of the two people on it always falls off and dies. Well, yeah, you can’t have a railing. [People would be _leaning_ all day.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bSZXucTH4A) ---
**Author:** ![OHS201](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/6de8d8/32.png) [@OHS201](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OHS201)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1432 "2016-01-14T17:49:06Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > One question, how come Mark Hamill got second billing, when his actual appearance in the film was a non-speaking cameo? > > Can anyone think of any other film where this happened? Hamill’s agent is a Jedi master. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1433 "2016-01-14T18:51:28Z")
Finally saw it. Very underwhelmed. Felt pretty much like a copy of the first Star Wars. Say what you will about the prequel trilogy, Lucas at least tried to make the plots of those movies different from one another. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1434 "2016-01-18T17:15:11Z")
SNL had Kylo Ren on _Undercover Boss_: [Star Wars Undercover Boss: Starkiller Base - SNL - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOSCASqLsE) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1435 "2016-01-18T19:58:44Z")
nm, misread ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1436 "2016-01-22T04:44:38Z")
Episode VIII pushed back from May to December 2017: [http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/entertainment/star-wars-episode-viii-what-we-know-feat/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/21/entertainment/star-wars-episode-viii-what-we-know-feat/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1437 "2016-01-22T15:04:46Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Finally saw it. > > Very underwhelmed. Felt pretty much like a copy of the first Star Wars. Say what you will about the prequel trilogy, Lucas at least tried to make the plots of those movies different from one another. I’m giving a pass on this movie because it was the first of the trilogy. Its major point was to introduce or reintroduce all the main characters for the next two movies. This is also why it doesn’t bother me much what happens to Poe or whiny Kylo or silent Luke. These characters have room to grow and develop in the next movies. Although again, I suspect all the original characters will die before the trilogy ends. IOW, I do not see it as a standalone, but as part of a group. If the next two movies follow the same plot style, then yes I may complain, but I’m not doing that at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1438 "2016-01-22T16:42:57Z")
The Kylo Ren cat becomes an Internet sensation: [http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/entertainment/kylo-ren-adam-driver-cat-feat/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/22/entertainment/kylo-ren-adam-driver-cat-feat/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1439 "2016-02-16T20:12:52Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > 32 years for us, only 30 for the characters on the screen. > > [http://lucasfilm.com/star-wars-episode-7-the-force-awakens](http://lucasfilm.com/star-wars-episode-7-the-force-awakens) This was my single biggest problem with it: I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and guessing maybe 50 years had passed between Eps 6 and 7 in the Lucasverse. But even that feels (at least to me) way too soon for the First Order to have gone from zero to the verge of galactic domination. From the handful of early comments I read, people think Kylo Ren will be back in Ep 8. But wait, didn’t we leave him crawling, wounded, on the ground in the woods on a planet that was about to explode? Unless he was able to use the Force to levitate himself to the nearest spaceship and get the hell off planet before the literal earth-shattering kaboom, the moment Rey and Finn turned their backs and made a run for it. Oh, and Han and Leia looked like they were in their early to mid 70s (because they looked at least 10 years older than I do), and Ren looked like he was about 23. He really did look like their grandkid. And why do the Vader-style mask if he’s going to part with it so easily? And whatever explanation Poe gave Finn for how he survived his own kaboom went by so fast that I didn’t catch it. But it was a fun movie, despite those flaws, and despite following the outline of the original Star Wars a little too religiously in places. The Firebug is bummed that he has to wait 2 years to see the next one, and another 2 years for the conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1440 "2016-02-16T20:57:48Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > From the handful of early comments I read, people think Kylo Ren will be back in Ep 8. But wait, didn’t we leave him crawling, wounded, on the ground in the woods on a planet that was about to explode? Unless he was able to use the Force to levitate himself to the nearest spaceship and get the hell off planet before the literal earth-shattering kaboom, the moment Rey and Finn turned their backs and made a run for it. We see Snoke ordering General Hux to flee the planet and take Kylo with him so his training can be completed. It would be an odd directorial choice to include that scene if the intent was that they all died in a supernova several seconds later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=73)