# Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Seen It (Assume Spoilers Within) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 16, 2015, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645 "2015-12-16T23:16:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 78
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1541 "2016-04-20T11:15:33Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > He was also a weak villain, not quite bad enough to make we want Hayden Christensen back, but getting there. Don’t you think that is intentional though? I have seen this movie several times now ( my 7 year old daughter is in love with it so now it’s on all the time) and it seems to me that the film makers go to a lot of trouble to make Ren weak. They have everyone treat him like a petulant child. He is all but openly mocked by the other people on the First Order ship. His light saber is in a constant state of malfunction. He gets his assistant handed to him by a person who has never picked up a light saber before in their lives. He wears a mask as an affectation and that is mentioned several times by other characters as well. No one in the movie takes him seriously as anything other than a toddler with a gun. The more I watch the movie the more obvious it is that this is not some weird mistake on the part of the film makers. They are making him slightly ridiculous on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1542 "2016-04-20T11:17:40Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > He was also a weak villain, not quite bad enough to make we want Hayden Christensen back, but getting there. Don’t you think that is intentional though? I have seen this movie several times now ( my 7 year old daughter is in love with it so now it’s on all the time) and it seems to me that the film makers go to a lot of trouble to make Ren weak. They have everyone treat him like a petulant child. He is all but openly mocked by the other people on the First Order ship. His light saber is in a constant state of malfunction. He gets his assistant handed to him by a person who has never picked up a light saber before in their lives. He wears a mask as an affectation and that is mentioned several times by other characters as well. No one in the movie takes him seriously as anything other than a toddler with a gun. The more I watch the movie the more obvious it is that this is not some weird mistake on the part of the film makers. They are making him slightly ridiculous on purpose. He isn’t the villain. He isn’t really a Vader analog. He’s much more what Luke was in the first movie, but on the dark side. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1543 "2016-04-20T11:25:55Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > They have everyone treat him like a petulant child. Agreed. And that’s what makes him vulnerable to the Dark Side, and fodder for Snoke’s manipulations. He’s a runaway teen that’s been inducted into a cult. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1544 "2016-04-20T12:09:53Z")
I hadn’t considered that it was intentional. I just assumed it was bad writing. He is like an angry child, when he chopped up his room on receiving bad news my wife laughed and said, “that’s you, that is”. The downside of his character though is that you never feel he is a credible threat and neither does Snoke. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1545 "2016-04-20T12:27:05Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Agreed. And that’s what makes him vulnerable to the Dark Side, and fodder for Snoke’s manipulations. He’s a runaway teen that’s been inducted into a cult. Yes! Exactly this. I think that, because of all the similarities with the original, the fact that this is actually a very different type of movie from anything Lucas wrote is being hidden. As far as I can tell it’s not even a Campbell style hero quest. That might change with future installments, but I feel like the parallels with episode 4 are a feint to distract us with other stuff that is building. It’s also possible I’m giving them too much credit ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1546 "2016-04-20T13:58:24Z")
A lot of folks had the same complaints about Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side in the prequels. “He did it for loooove?! No! He should do it because he’s an evil badass who craves power!” Excepting, of course, that assuming Anakin was an ambitious evil power grabber to begin with ignores the entire story arc of the original series, not to mention assuming that Luke was never in any danger of falling to the darkside himself, which brings us back to the entire freaking story arc for the original trilogy. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1547 "2016-04-20T14:35:58Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > A lot of folks had the same complaints about Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side in the prequels. “He did it for loooove?! No! He should do it because he’s an evil badass who craves power!” > > Excepting, of course, that assuming Anakin was an ambitious evil power grabber to begin with ignores the entire story arc of the original series, not to mention assuming that Luke was never in any danger of falling to the darkside himself, which brings us back to the entire freaking story arc for the original trilogy. I didn’t have a problem with the reasons for Anakin’s fall, just the execution in the prequels. He didn’t come across as troubled, just whiney. It seems that members of the Skywalker family struggle with an Oedipus complex. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1548 "2016-04-20T14:55:28Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > I didn’t have a problem with the reasons for Anakin’s fall, just the execution in the prequels. He didn’t come across as troubled, just whiney. Well, taking out the wooden acting, the bad dialog and the entire plot… If they had shown him displaying flashes of the dark side, being unnecessarily cruel or even evil at times, with Obi Wan and [del]Frodo[/del] [del]Yoga[/del] **Yoda** talking about being worried about the pull of the dark side on him, that would have made a world of difference. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1549 "2016-04-20T15:05:20Z")
Exactly, but they failed to do that, a missed opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2016, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1550 "2016-04-20T15:08:51Z")
What was Carrie Fisher’s least-favorite line of the original trilogy? Wonder no more: [The Star Wars Line Of Dialogue Carrie Fisher Absolutely Hated | Cinemablend](http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Star-Wars-Line-Dialogue-Carrie-Fisher-Absolutely-Hated-125837.html?utm_source=zergnet.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=zergnet_993123) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2016, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1551 "2016-10-13T03:52:56Z")
Bumped. British production company fined $2m for Harrison Ford’s on-set injury: [Harrison Ford's Star Wars injury results in $2m fine for British production firm | Harrison Ford | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2016/oct/12/british-production-firm-fined-16m-over-harrison-ford-leg-injury) ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2016, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1552 "2016-10-18T19:02:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, taking out the wooden acting, the bad dialog and the entire plot… > > If they had shown him displaying flashes of the dark side, being unnecessarily cruel or even evil at times, with Obi Wan and [del]Frodo[/del] [del]Yoga[/del] **Yoda** talking about being worried about the pull of the dark side on him, that would have made a world of difference. The 2003 era Clone Wars cartoons did a much better job of depicting Anakin falling to the dark side, they even managed to make him somehow _likable_. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1553 "2016-11-26T13:33:54Z")
I finally saw the movie yesterday. I liked it, the pacing was good with plenty of action. The plot had holes you could fly the Millennium Falcon through with ease but it I was largely able to ignore those. It was far better than the 3 prequels and I enjoyed it more than the Ewok craptactular that concluded the original run. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645/1554 "2016-11-26T13:55:52Z")
> [@](#): > > The plot had holes you could fly the Millennium Falcon through with ease… But only if it was in hyper at the time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-force-awakens-seen-it-assume-spoilers-within/740645.md?page=77)