# Star Wars: The Last Jedi - seen it thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441 "2017-12-13T21:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/801 "2018-01-03T16:28:04Z")
Damn straight, RT. I’ve said this before, but if Disney is committed to a Star Wars movie per year - and it seems they are - I’d like to see them branch out. A Star Wars universe heist movie. A rom com, a mystery, a small, character-driven picture like something Jim Jarmusch might do. Hell, get some A-list directors and let’s see what they can deliver in the milieu. Tarantino? Jarmusch? The Coen Brothers? Explore the world, not just the top guys. I hope Rian Johnson’s trilogy can be something out of the ordinary. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/802 "2018-01-03T16:30:32Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > I admit I’m not totally sure I recall this correctly, but didn’t Poe’s earlier defiance of authority end up effectively saving the rebellion, or at least the _Raddus_ with apparently all the big shots on it? Wasn’t the First Order’s dreadnought just lining up its big guns to take out the _Raddus_ as it was destroyed by the bomber? Although thinking about it, maybe they’d long since jumped to hyperspace if Poe hadn’t refused to call off the attack… Yes, Poe’s original mission was to piss of General Hugs and delay their attack on the planet until all the ships had taken off. Once he completed that, he was ordered to return to the cruiser, but defied that order. Had he and the other ships attack done so, they’d have been able to jump before the dreadnought could fire on them. By continuing the attack, he forced Leia into the choice of either abandoning her fighters & bombers, or risk losing the cruiser if the attack wasn’t successful. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/803 "2018-01-03T16:42:00Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > A Star Wars universe heist movie. - Rogue One. \* ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/804 "2018-01-03T16:44:53Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I vaguely think he is referred to as “Owen Lars” in the prequels… fairly sure he’s just called “Uncle Owen” in ANH itself. FWIW while it wasn’t used in the movie itself, stuff from way back in 1977 like the novels and trading cards referred to him as Owen Lars even before the Prequels. I know it was something I knew as kid long before the Special Editions, let alone the prequels. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/805 "2018-01-03T16:49:09Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Damn straight, RT. > > I’ve said this before, but if Disney is committed to a Star Wars movie per year - and it seems they are - I’d like to see them branch out. A Star Wars universe heist movie. A rom com, a mystery, a small, character-driven picture like something Jim Jarmusch might do. > > Hell, get some A-list directors and let’s see what they can deliver in the milieu. Tarantino? Jarmusch? The Coen Brothers? Explore the world, not just the top guys. I hope Rian Johnson’s trilogy can be something out of the ordinary. As I wrote a few pages back, as much as I love Star Wars, it isn’t as creatively open as you think. Say we did get a Star Wars heist movie. It would a Heist movie with the trappings of Star Wars. Other than Nostalgia what’s the point of that? Why not a fresh new Sci fi heist movie? Disney is going to squeeze every ounce of juice out of this lemon until we hate Star Wars and never want to see it again. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/806 "2018-01-03T16:54:53Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > - > > Rogue One. > \* Y’see, I’m not seeing it. A heist movie has more planning. Rogue One was more a spy movie. An old one, where a regular Jane found herself caught up in something beyond her. Sort of Star Wars: North by Northwest. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/807 "2018-01-03T17:06:07Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Rogue One was more a spy movie. An old one, where a regular Jane found herself caught up in something beyond her. Sort of Star Wars: North by Northwest. No, [that’s different](http://www.newsweek.com/watch-north-northwest-and-star-wars-mash-you-didnt-know-you-needed-star-wars-461480). ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/808 "2018-01-03T17:28:44Z")
One thing hat begins to bug me is that Jedi (almost as much as Jack, Janet and Chrissie) really need to say things clearly. To say what’s on their minds.To stop talking in riddles. Yoda is especially bad at this. He’s almost The Sphinx. He’s terribly mysterious. Would it really have hurt to say “well, Luke, your father Vader is. Failed in his training we did. Lied to you we did.” No, talk he must like one of the Children of Tama. Luke isn’t much better. All this talking around the problem. Just say what happened. Saying the Jedi equivalent of “swing for the fences” is not helpful. Say “water is deadly to the aliens.” Now that is useful! Come to think of it, Admiral Purple hair could tell Poe “Go away. We have a plan. The grownups are in charge here and we know what we’re doing.” Could have saved a lot of headache in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/809 "2018-01-03T17:37:13Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Come to think of it, Admiral Purple hair could tell Poe “Go away. We have a plan. The grownups are in charge here and we know what we’re doing.” Could have saved a lot of headache in the long run. But the point is, Poe thinks that’s not the case, right? He thinks she’s so bad at what she does that he goes behind her back before a mutiny to her face. So wouldn’t he think, _”oh, she said that? Well, that’s always a thing someone can say.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/810 "2018-01-03T17:46:01Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > But the point is, Poe thinks that’s not the case, right? He thinks she’s so bad at what she does that he goes behind her back before a mutiny to her face. So wouldn’t he think, _”oh, she said that? Well, that’s always a thing someone can say.”_ On the one hand, yeah, he could just not believe her. Then we’d be right to the same place. On the other hand, he really isn’t the competent rogue Han replacement he’s being written to be. He’s kind of a jerk. On the third hand, I think the Admiral was in way over her head. Her “plan” such as it was, seemed to be the equivalent of “we’ll run down this narrow hallway, and when they aren’t looking, we’ll all duck into an alcove and not be seen as they walk by.” There’s nothing in her plan for “what if they see us in the alcove?” She seemed more like Admiral Deer Caught in Headlights than Admiral I’d Want to Follow into Battle. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/811 "2018-01-03T17:46:18Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Come to think of it, Admiral Purple hair could tell Poe “Go away. We have a plan. The grownups are in charge here and we know what we’re doing.” Could have saved a lot of headache in the long run. I don’t know. The hotheaded young men who buck authority archetype would not be put off by the existence of a measly “plan.” It’s interesting that so many people seem to want to absolve Poe for his actions. I feel like we’re so primed to see bucking authority as a good thing in a movie that we assume the authority is in the wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/812 "2018-01-03T17:48:04Z")
It doesn’t speak well of Holdo’s leadership that Poe could inspire a mutiny and get enough people to go along with it to pull it off (and the rest to acquiesce). It’s only because universally loved Leia put it down that Holdo got back in charge. In other words, Poe has all of his faults but Holdo didn’t just fail to communicate to Poe because Poe was reckless, incompetent or whatever – she failed to communicate or inspire an aura of competence and “Yeah, she’s got this” from pretty much anyone outside of her immediate circle. Everyone else was either willing to directly mutiny or go along with it. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/813 "2018-01-03T17:51:14Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I feel like we’re so primed to see bucking authority as a good thing in a movie that we assume the authority is in the wrong. Well, the entire original trilogy was premised around a small group of scamps overthrowing the galactic authority. We haven’t had many examples of good, solid military or bureaucratic leadership. Even when the Good Guys are doing their largest maneuvers, it still mainly cycles around the scampish rogue main characters. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/814 "2018-01-03T18:20:41Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > On the third hand, I think the Admiral was in way over her head. Her “plan” such as it was, seemed to be the equivalent of “we’ll run down this narrow hallway, and when they aren’t looking, we’ll all duck into an alcove and not be seen as they walk by.” There’s nothing in her plan for “what if they see us in the alcove?” She seemed more like Admiral Deer Caught in Headlights than Admiral I’d Want to Follow into Battle. Seems like a good enough plan. It used to work all the time on Doctor Who. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/815 "2018-01-03T19:31:21Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > Seems like a good enough plan. It used to work all the time on Doctor Who. For what it’s worth, near as I can tell the Finn-and-Rose plan would’ve worked perfectly if not for BB-8 gettting spotted. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/816 "2018-01-03T20:41:39Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Well, the entire original trilogy was premised around a small group of scamps overthrowing the galactic authority. We haven’t had many examples of good, solid military or bureaucratic leadership. Even when the Good Guys are doing their largest maneuvers, it still mainly cycles around the scampish rogue main characters. It does, and the subversion of this was great. I like to think that in the SW universe, it’s not a physical law that scamps\>well-organized military operations. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/817 "2018-01-03T20:51:09Z")
What is the consensus on when DJ sold out Finn and Rose? Was he supposed to be a plant in the jail (seems unlikely), did he switch sides on the stolen ship, after he got on board the FO ship, or only after he got caught? I vote for the last, but I wouldn’t put it past the film to be one of the other ones. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/818 "2018-01-03T21:09:30Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > What is the consensus on when DJ sold out Finn and Rose? Was he supposed to be a plant in the jail (seems unlikely), did he switch sides on the stolen ship, after he got on board the FO ship, or only after he got caught? > > I vote for the last, but I wouldn’t put it past the film to be one of the other ones. the last, since he said “_we_ got caught, _I_ cut a deal.” ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/819 "2018-01-03T21:26:15Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I’d be willing to bet - not that the filmmakers have thought this through, I’d bet - that to most of the galaxy this whole ‘Star Wars’ conflict is irrelevant. We’re invested because we’re seeing it. But to some middle class salaryman on Naboo doesn’t give a damn about who’s in charge. He’s worried about paying his mortgage and making sure his pain in the ass teen stops skipping school. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > That POV totally undermines the notion that we should _care_ who wins or loses this conflict. > > If the good guys aren’t all that good, and the bad guys aren’t all that bad, and the difference between them isn’t going to make life better or worse for more than a handful of people, then there’s no ‘there’ there. > [@wonky](#): > > I watch things all the time where I care about the outcome because I care about the characters who are on one side and don’t care about the characters on another side. So while I agree that the stakes would be lower, I don’t think that has to mean that the story isn’t worth telling. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > There are many stories worth telling that wouldn’t interest anybody outside a small circle of friends. This seems to suggest that shades of grey ruin the point of a story. ETA: I forgot the second half. This seems to suggest that shades of grey or limited scope ruin the point of a story. Are characters nothing? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/820 "2018-01-03T23:02:15Z")
Presented for your amusement: [The TLJ Haters Strike Back.](https://imgur.com/a/6smO9) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441.md?page=42)