# Star Wars: The Last Jedi - seen it thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441 "2017-12-13T21:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/881 "2018-01-06T15:32:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That was great. She does raise, near the end, [an extremely valid criticism of the movie](https://youtu.be/JpoUN_A12Eg?t=1225), and if I ever watch it again, this major plot hole is gonna ruin it for me. Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/882 "2018-01-06T15:32:54Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That was great. She does raise, near the end, [an extremely valid criticism of the movie](https://youtu.be/JpoUN_A12Eg?t=1225), and if I ever watch it again, this major plot hole is gonna ruin it for me. Wow, that’s really stretching it. In that case why does practically everyone in the Star Wars universe speak modern English that was devloped on planet Earth that doesn’t even exist in Star Wars. Are carpets universally used in SW or just as an insult when one resembles a walking one? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/883 "2018-01-06T15:41:45Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > Seriously? No. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/884 "2018-01-06T15:50:16Z")
OK, I read through most of this thread, and agree with much that has been said, but I haven’t seen anyone address this: Why do the land speeders on the Salt planet need to drag a hook? We have never seen hook-dragging speeders anywhere else in the Star Wars movieverse. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/885 "2018-01-06T15:54:04Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > OK, I read through most of this thread, and agree with much that has been said, but I haven’t seen anyone address this: > Why do the land speeders on the Salt planet need to drag a hook? We have never seen hook-dragging speeders anywhere else in the Star Wars movieverse. I think the hook worked as a sled-runner/landing gear, taking some of the pressure of the old crotchety engines. It was a flimsy throwaway line, basically put in the movie to justify the gorgeous visuals of the battle sequence. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/886 "2018-01-06T16:06:06Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The Last Jedi is far from bad. I’m astonished to read this. You said you could write a better sequel than the one “shit out in this movie,” that you dislike it, and that it’s script is very bad. What the hell would be keeping it far from bad? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/887 "2018-01-06T16:08:39Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The only one that spoke (IMO) with directorial authority is Yoda, and I don’t think his “learn from the past but don’t cling to it” take gets contradicted ever. I would take that even further. Yoda’s line is something like, “We are what they grow beyond.” Referring to teachers and students. That’s an implicit statement that the new generation should grow and be better and different than the current generation. If Rey learns to grow beyond the ways of the jedi as Luke knew them - very limited, actually - then that’s not a bad thing. Every generation should be better and different than previous ones. Also, there’s a strong one-percent bad message in the movie. I think the sequence on Canto Bight is designed to allow Rose’s working class ethic to come to the fore and certainly to give us a glimpse of the wider galaxy that is invested in the war. The focus at the end of the downtrodden stable kid and his force pull allows us to theorize that the force, the resistance et al aren’t just about elites. Star Wars has been criticized in the past about just [focusing on elites](http://http://www.davidbrin.com/nonfiction/starwars1.html) and chosen ones and such. This directly contradicts that past behavior and it’s better for it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/888 "2018-01-06T16:15:20Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I would take that even further. Yoda’s line is something like, “We are what they grow beyond.” Referring to teachers and students. That’s an implicit statement that the new generation should grow and be better and different than the current generation. If Rey learns to grow beyond the ways of the jedi as Luke knew them - very limited, actually - then that’s not a bad thing. Every generation should be better and different than previous ones. Definitely. (Also, my other POV statements were pretty glib, too.) > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Also, there’s a strong one-percent bad message in the movie. I think the sequence on Canto Bight is designed to allow Rose’s working class ethic to come to the fore and certainly to give us a glimpse of the wider galaxy that is invested in the war. I told my wife afterwards that Disney had really monetized my class rage :). ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/889 "2018-01-06T16:42:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I think the hook worked as a sled-runner/landing gear, taking some of the pressure of the old crotchety engines. It was a flimsy throwaway line, basically put in the movie to justify the gorgeous visuals of the battle sequence. like the guy in the trench tasting what was on the ground and saying “salt.” Just to make it clear this wasn’t Yet Another Ice Planet Battle. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/890 "2018-01-06T16:59:56Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > After looking at other reviews from the film-going public (not official critics), it seems to me that most of the negatives are different for everyone, which says something in itself, and if you think about those things for long enough, the answers and explanations are there, on screen, both from a filmmaking standpoint, and an in-universe standpoint, as this thread demonstrates, amongst other places. We’re just not used to a Star Wars movie approached in this way. > > It’s a shame that so many people will dismiss _The Last Jedi_ as bad, in this knee-jerk way, and not give it any more thought. This doubly doesn’t apply to what I’m saying since 1) I enjoyed the movie, I’m not being dismissive of it and 2) We’ve thrashed the Holdo maneuver out to death here and no there isn’t an answer in this thread or elsewhere. It “just was” used for the first time here, and it’s left as an exercise for the reader to decide why it wasn’t a factor in any previous battles. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/891 "2018-01-06T17:12:44Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > like the guy in the trench tasting what was on the ground and saying “salt.” Just to make it clear this wasn’t Yet Another Ice Planet Battle. Yet not defining whether it was the white stuff or the red stuff, or both, that was salt. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/892 "2018-01-06T17:34:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yet not defining whether it was the white stuff or the red stuff, or both, that was salt. For me, the soil chemistry of a new setting is the most important aspect of any film sequence, so I really hated that they left this question unresolved. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/893 "2018-01-06T17:41:40Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What specifically are you thinking of? I’m specifically thinking of the theme of “we aren’t going to win by fighting what we hate but saving what we love.” Variations of this are repeated with the sort of writing and directing that suggest it’s a theme of the movie, yet in the end, they don’t really do either one. They don’t save most of “what they love,” they only save the Named Characters. They lose most of their army, and wind up with so few people that they can all fit on the Falcon. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/894 "2018-01-06T17:44:51Z")
> [@wonky](#): > > I’m astonished to read this. You said you could write a better sequel than the one “shit out in this movie,” that you dislike it, and that it’s script is very bad. What the hell would be keeping it far from bad? The acting was great, the SFX was incredible, and the action sequences were very well done. The writing sucked, and yes, I could have written a better story than this and so could a hell of a lot of people, even if it was only by dropping the Finn-Rose storyline. But the actors did the best they could with that, and the Rey-Kylo Ren part of the film was great. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/895 "2018-01-06T17:56:26Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > The writing sucked, and yes, I could have written a better story than this and so could a hell of a lot of people my experience in life is that the people who have to repeatedly assert stuff like this rarely actually ever go on to _do_ what they claim they’re so good at. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/896 "2018-01-06T17:56:38Z")
I was so disappointed. Not only is it not a good Star Wars, it isn’t even a good movie. I don’t think a movie has ever fallen this short of its potential. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/897 "2018-01-06T18:14:59Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > For me, the soil chemistry of a new setting is the most important aspect of any film sequence, so I really hated that they left this question unresolved. Honestly cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not, as there are those, including myself, that find details of a setting to be interesting, even if not critical to the understanding of the plot or story sequence. I was just pointing out that the only real info given on the nature of the setting was a bit on the ambiguous side. > [@RikWriter](#): > > I’m specifically thinking of the theme of “we aren’t going to win by fighting what we hate but saving what we love.” Variations of this are repeated with the sort of writing and directing that suggest it’s a theme of the movie, yet in the end, they don’t really do either one. They don’t save most of “what they love,” they only save the Named Characters. They lose most of their army, and wind up with so few people that they can all fit on the Falcon. Maybe they just didn’t love any of the other characters. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/898 "2018-01-06T18:20:24Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Honestly cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not, as there are those, including myself, that find details of a setting to be interesting, even if not critical to the understanding of the plot or story sequence. I was just pointing out that the only real info given on the nature of the setting was a bit on the ambiguous side. Sarcasm :). There are definitely stories that I enjoy going into the details of. Star Wars? Not so much. I read elsewhere that it’s best to watch it like you read myths, understanding that it’s not hard science fiction or documentary. The setting serves story and spectacle, not deep analysis. > [@](#): > > Maybe they just didn’t love any of the other characters. I know Rose’s character said that, but I’m honestly not sure how important a theme of the movie that is. Maybe it’ll be more important in the next movie. Did anything else in the movie back up this statement of hers? There were other themes in the movie that were much more central: failure, how to handle the past, how to balance individuality vs. hierarchy, the tension between glory and mercy, etc. In fact, Rose’s line, now that I think about it, works best as a part of that last theme: Rose, unlike Poe and like Holdo, values empathy way above glory. Finn, in that scene, is choosing glory, believing he’s choosing empathy. Rose disagrees. In no way do I take what she said as an authorial statement. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/899 "2018-01-06T18:44:46Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > my experience in life is that the people who have to repeatedly assert stuff like this rarely actually ever go on to _do_ what they claim they’re so good at. Okay. Sorry for your bad experiences. Best luck in the future. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/900 "2018-01-06T18:46:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In fact, Rose’s line, now that I think about it, works best as a part of that last theme: Rose, unlike Poe and like Holdo, values empathy way above glory. Finn, in that scene, is choosing glory, believing he’s choosing empathy. Rose disagrees. > > In no way do I take what she said as an authorial statement. I certainly do. It’s repeated by more than one character and supported by Leia, who is as close as you can come in this movie to having the author/director at something directly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441.md?page=46)