# Star Wars: The Last Jedi - seen it thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 13, 2017, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441 "2017-12-13T21:50:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/81 "2017-12-16T04:43:32Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > And that’s where I hoped Rey would join with Kylo Ren - as a Empire isn’t working, the Republic didn’t work, let’s try something different that will. That would have been quite exciting. All that build up to maybe we can meet in the middle between light and dark side and Empire and Rebellion, and we are back to light vs. dark and Empire vs. Rebellion at the end - with a meaningful Force look between Rey and Kylo Ren. There’s still one movie to go. I think they demonstrated the potential of a lot of grey. Did you not see when Kylo and Rey worked together? Their intense connection with each other? Their desire to compromise, but to be centre-dark or centre-light? I think that’s the way to let the Sith and Jedi die, by formulating something new. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/82 "2017-12-16T04:45:58Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > There’s still one movie to go. I think they demonstrated the potential of a lot of grey. Did you not see when Kylo and Rey worked together? Their intense connection with each other? Their desire to compromise, but to be centre-dark or centre-light? I think that’s the way to let the Sith and Jedi die, by formulating something new. Which kind of made this movie a bit meaningless then IMO. They making moves of working together and then ended up split off, even more in their own corners at the end. If it comes to they come back again to working to make grey there was a lot of wasted time to get them to that point, I think. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/83 "2017-12-16T06:40:35Z")
I generally agree with this thread, in that I liked-it-a-lot-but-didn’t-quite-love-it, and agree with most of the praise, and agree with most of the criticism. One thing I REALLY disliked, however, was Rose stopping Finn from sacrificing himself. Wtf? Isn’t dying in order to protect/save your comrades something that is noble? Laura Dern did it. Her sister did it. How is it suddenly different for Finn? Because he’s a main character? Or is the implication supposed to be that what he’s trying won’t possibly work? It was frustratingly muddled. I also don’t think the timeline of how they ended up meeting and then being betrayed by Benicio Del Toro makes any sense. Or if it did make sense, it certainly wasn’t very clear to us what was going on. I was surprised by how unconvincing the mo-cap was on Snoke. A rare special effects miss. On the other hand, the porgs, the crystal foxes, and the weird inhabitants of Luke’s island all looked fantastic. (The horsey things were in the middle.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/84 "2017-12-16T08:34:46Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > I also don’t think the timeline of how they ended up meeting and then being betrayed by Benicio Del Toro makes any sense. Or if it did make sense, it certainly wasn’t very clear to us what was going on. Del Toro betrayed them after they were captured. He had overheard Finn talking to Poe on the communicator, telling him about the transports. He bartered that to the First Order in exchange for his freedom and several crates of cash. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/85 "2017-12-16T12:46:08Z")
Wanted to give a more detailed post. Haven’t read the thread yet so apologies if this has been said over and over: Get the negative out of the way: the movie dragged a bit in places and probably could have been ten minutes shorter. The theme of this movie was the young generation wiping away the old which for Star Wars is a huge change. Star Wars was always about history and dynasties. This thumbs its nose at all that and I liked that. I absolutely LOVED that Rey’s parents were nobodies. For a story about a Galaxy, Star Wars was often silly about how small it is and the idea of the Force only being available to a select few was always unpleasant. Luke being a grump went on a little too long but I liked his point about how the Force will be there whether there are Jedi or not. I also liked the conversation with Yoda. It made me expect this would end with something new forming but it looks like Rey will restart the Jedi after all. I liked Laura Dern even when you weren’t supposed to and although the theme was the Young replacing the Old, that story reminded everyone that sometimes the old know what they’re doing. I have to admit having a ship do a suicide run occurred to me as soon as the chance started. Did the base at the end show up in the show Rebels? Those crystal cats looked very familiar to me and they mentioned it was a base from the early days of the Rebellion. It was great how Rey and Ben worked together but Ben did not turn back to the Light. Sometimes the good guys fail. Interesting data point: my girlfriend hadn’t seen Star Wars since she was a kid. We rewatched the Original Trilogy over the weekend. She liked it but thought it was simplistic and just okay. We didn’t get a chance to see The Force Awakens but I gave her my summary of the story as went to the theater yesterday and she saw this. She liked this movie a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/86 "2017-12-16T14:37:46Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > And of course, Carrie Fisher has left us (RIP). I expect her death will be depicted in this movie. So OF COURSE she will be awarded the most AWESOME BADASS SUICIDE CHARGE EVER. Single-handedly destroying an Imperial Star Destroyer at LIGHT FUCKING SPEED! I LITERALLY CANNOT WAIT! > > But no. They give this honor to… Laura Dern? Laura F’ing Dern? Yeah, they really should have had Leia die in this movie, the writers and directors having known in advance that Carrie Fisher would kill herself with drugs before being able to film the next movie. Oh, wait, they didn’t know. The really should have called Fisher back in for reshoots of a death scene after she died in real life to give Leia’s character arc a satisfying end. Oh, wait… ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/87 "2017-12-16T16:13:46Z")
People upset you didn’t get Snoke’s backstory, I’m sure there will be trilogy of novels telling you how he ran into Chewbacca’s father and Uncle Owen on his way to becoming a Sith lord. ---
**Author:** ![Tarwater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de0a6/32.png) [@Tarwater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarwater)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/88 "2017-12-16T16:21:10Z")
I loved the movie, but I have a question: Is Finn constantly getting knocked unconscious supposed to be a joke, or are the writers just returning to that well time and time again without realizing what they’re doing? Dude has been knocked unconscious, like, at least four or five times now. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/89 "2017-12-16T16:51:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Del Toro betrayed them after they were captured. He had overheard Finn talking to Poe on the communicator, telling him about the transports. He bartered that to the First Order in exchange for his freedom and several crates of cash. Are you sure? I thought that it was implied at the time they were captured that he’d already betrayed them. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/90 "2017-12-16T17:06:47Z")
My version of Luke’s death that would have been better. Yep, prepare for hundreds of these over the next 40 years. 🙂 Ahem. Scene: Yoda meets with Luke. Yoda tells him he\* can\* help Rey, etc. Similar to what is in the movie. Luke does his “force projection” as filmed/seen in the movie. Audience has no idea. Same as movie. Luke is revealed to be on the island. Same as movie. However, at this point, we needed a mini-flashback where we see what Yoda told him. Yoda could say, “Help them you may…but it will cost you greatly. All your life force drained from you.” (better written that my crappy dialogue). Cut back to Luke meditating. He sees ghost-Yoda, ghost-Obi-wan(old), and ghost Anakin. He disappears, having his energy drained. [end] Something like that would have been better. My wife and I kind of shrugged and went “huh” upon first viewing. Not the effect they wanted. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/91 "2017-12-16T17:14:22Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yeah, they really should have had Leia die in this movie, the writers and directors having known in advance that Carrie Fisher would kill herself with drugs before being able to film the next movie. The movie was in postproduction and over a year away from release, and she’s already showed up dead in ‘Rogue One’, so there would be precedent. > [@](#): > > The really should have called Fisher back in for reshoots of a death scene after she died in real life to give Leia’s character arc a satisfying end. Yeah, you’re totally right, there’s no way she could have possibly died in the scene where we see her unconscious body frosting over as it floated in the cold vacuum of interstellar space after being ejected from the exploding bridge by a withering barrage of blaster fire from strafing TIE fighters. I totally said to myself that if she doesn’t fly back to sick bay like a goddamn angel, I want my money back, because anybody would totally survive that shit. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/92 "2017-12-16T17:17:06Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I can’t help but think kylo repeatedly telling Rey to stop holding onto the past is a subtle suggestion to fans as well. This ain’t Lucas’ story no more. We don’t need no stinkin kenobis or skywalkers anymore. Anakin’s legendary light saber? Pfft-- toss it, split it in two, who gives a shit? It’s in the past; he’s dead, so are the sith and Jedi. New day, new stories. So stop looking to the past for clues and characters to help you guess what’s coming next. I agree, this message was pretty obvious. You fanbois got your reboot as promised, and this is your notice that there’s a new sherriff in town. And it’s probably going to be a morally ambiguous Chinese old lady. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/93 "2017-12-16T17:18:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Oh, also, Force Ghosts can summon lightning bolts and hit people with sticks, now. Kinda wonder why all those dead Jedi are just hanging out in a glowy blue afterlife, when they could still be really, really effective in the mortal realm. Because there are only 4 (now 5) of them? Becoming a Force Ghost is a rare thing. You don’t see Mace Windu in the Blue Man Group, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/94 "2017-12-16T17:19:38Z")
If Leia had died earlier in the movie we wouldn’t have had her reunion with Luke, which was one of the high points of the film. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/95 "2017-12-16T17:23:06Z")
Yoda could call lightning for the same reason Luke could perform astral projection - because Ach-To was a place of power, where the Force was much stronger than anywhere else. Seemed obvious to me. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/96 "2017-12-16T17:26:59Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Yoda could call lightning for the same reason Luke could perform astral projection - because Ach-To was a place of power, where the Force was much stronger than anywhere else. Seemed obvious to me. That works. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/97 "2017-12-16T17:49:27Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Yeah, you’re totally right, there’s no way she could have possibly died in the scene where we see her unconscious body frosting over as it floated in the cold vacuum of interstellar space after being ejected from the exploding bridge by a withering barrage of blaster fire from strafing TIE fighters. I thought that you were saying that they should have rewritten the script so that Leia was the one who rammed the ship instead of Purplehair. ETA: Rereading your message, you very much _were_ saying that. You are totally rewriting history to claim that you _really_ meant that she should have died in that earlier scene. Fake news! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/98 "2017-12-16T17:53:31Z")
Two Star Wars action figures I want: the big red robot seen in passing in _The Force Awakens_ and whatever the hell that thing was that Luke milked in _The Last Jedi_. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/99 "2017-12-16T18:01:00Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > I thought that you were saying that they should have rewritten the script so that Leia was the one who rammed the ship instead of Purplehair. > > ETA: Rereading your message, you very much _were_ saying that. You are totally rewriting history to claim that you _really_ meant that she should have died in that earlier scene. Fake news! Now imagine them re-writing that scene to give an epic sendoff to C-3PO. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2017, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441/100 "2017-12-16T19:07:30Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Are you sure? I thought that it was implied at the time they were captured that he’d already betrayed them. No he did it after they were captured to save his own skin. The dialogue says as much. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-last-jedi-seen-it-thread/804441.md?page=6)