# Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059 "2019-12-19T01:52:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/221 "2019-12-23T20:01:15Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Exactly right. It seemed like TLJ’s problem is that it was trying to erase things from TFA that Rian Johnson didn’t like and then ROS was trying to erase things from TLJ that JJ Abrams didn’t like and it make it completely muddled. > > JJ seemingly wanted a trilogy of fun action blockbusters calling back to the original trilogy, while Rian wanted a trilogy focused on ‘grey Jedi’. Either of those trilogies would have been better than the directors going back and forth and cutting each other off at the knees. Am I wrong in assuming that the first 3 (4,5 and 6), and the prequels (1,2 and 3) were overseen by George Lucas in some sort of executive overlord type capacity, when he wasn’t actually directing them himself? I think that continuity helped the other ones- as otherwise awful as the prequels were, they at least had a coherent progression of what the movies were supposed to do- introduce Anakin and Obi Wan, show how Anakin turned to the dark side, and set the stage for the second trilogy. In that sense, they were very coherent. But the final trilogy wasn’t, and I suspect it’s due to a lack of proper executive overlordship / vision. I mean, I’m astounded and aghast that in such a big dollar movie property with such a huge fan base and amount of established canon, that TPTB at Disney let the actual directors have such a say in the actual story that was being told across the trilogy. I mean, I guarantee that even though ESB and ROTJ weren’t directed by Lucas himself, that Kirshner or Marquand wasn’t going to be allowed to derail the story ol’ George was trying to tell. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/222 "2019-12-23T20:11:48Z")
Doesn’t force heal break star wars as much as the holdo maneuver? Think about if this was the norm in the previous star wars movies. Almost everyone that died except maybe Jango Fett could have been force healed. QuI Gonn, the assassin Obi Wan was trying to interrogate, Shmi Skywalker, hell probably Padme too, among many others. It can’t be that hard to learn if Ben picked it up after seeing Rey doing it once. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/223 "2019-12-23T20:15:11Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Am I wrong in assuming that the first 3 (4,5 and 6), and the prequels (1,2 and 3) were overseen by George Lucas in some sort of executive overlord type capacity, when he wasn’t actually directing them himself? The original Trilogy was driven by George Lucas but he had a lot of people who would disagree with him and that he’d listen to. Most notably, other people had a huge influence on the final edit - this video gives a good explanation of edits of ANH [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMyMxMYDNk) . The Prequels were pretty much exactly what Lucas wanted with little oversight or editing that he didn’t want. The final trilogy had no direct influence from him at all. > [@](#): > > But the final trilogy wasn’t, and I suspect it’s due to a lack of proper executive overlordship / vision. I mean, I’m astounded and aghast that in such a big dollar movie property with such a huge fan base and amount of established canon, that TPTB at Disney let the actual directors have such a say in the actual story that was being told across the trilogy. I agree with this, having someone give broad story ideas is such a basic thing to overlook. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/224 "2019-12-23T20:17:47Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Doesn’t force heal break star wars as much as the holdo maneuver? Think about if this was the norm in the previous star wars movies. Almost everyone that died except maybe Jango Fett could have been force healed. QuI Gonn, the assassin Obi Wan was trying to interrogate, Shmi Skywalker, hell probably Padme too, among many others. It can’t be that hard to learn if Ben picked it up after seeing Rey doing it once. Better yet, if they can do that…why are they keeping themselves busy with galactic politics, instead of hanging around at hospitals. Verstuurd vanaf mijn moto g(6) met Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/225 "2019-12-23T20:31:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Tbh, I hated the name. Though it did make me think Ben would survive and create something lasting as opposed to Rey adopting the Skywalker name. When the name was revealed, I squinked my kids out by saying “Maybe the last Skywalker is… inside Rey.” “Eeew, dad, Luke was like her grandfather being her trainer… just go away.” > [@Ashtura](#): > > Doesn’t force heal break star wars as much as the holdo maneuver? Think about if this was the norm in the previous star wars movies… But I totally bought the surprise on Ben’s face when she stopped that transport ship and then force-lightning’ed it. Both JJ and Rian showed Rey gaining Force talents amazingly fast. Which is why, even though I loved her parents being nobodies, the Palpatine lineage was needed to explain part of that. And the healing… doesn’t bother me if Rey is the first that can do that. Maybe she’ll complete her own training while she gets some sun(s) on Tatooine, then start training the next generation of Jedi. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/226 "2019-12-23T20:33:56Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Doesn’t force heal break star wars as much as the holdo maneuver? Think about if this was the norm in the previous star wars movies. Almost everyone that died except maybe Jango Fett could have been force healed. QuI Gonn, the assassin Obi Wan was trying to interrogate, Shmi Skywalker, hell probably Padme too, among many others. It can’t be that hard to learn if Ben picked it up after seeing Rey doing it once. I actually liked the force healing because Luke uses it quite a bit in the EU books. I mean, it was way faster and more effective in this movie but I figured that’s just the dramatics of showing things in a movie instead of describing in a book. Or maybe Rey is just really talented at it. Plus Ben has to give his entire life to effectively heal Rey so it’s not super OP and we can’t assume every Jedi could have done that. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/227 "2019-12-23T20:38:11Z")
> [@digs](#): > > But I totally bought the surprise on Ben’s face when she stopped that transport ship and then force-lightning’ed it. I totally rolled my eyes at that. Mostly because Yoda had to use a good deal of effort to lift a stationary X-wing from the bottom of a swamp. But Rey just reaches up and grabs a transport that is speeding away like nothing… It even makes no sense within the film. Rey destroys the transport with force lightening, but Emperor Palpatine force lightenings the Rebel fleet after sucking out Force Dyad energy and it just knocks out their engines for a few minutes with no other ill effects. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/228 "2019-12-23T20:43:06Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It even makes no sense within the film. Rey destroys the transport with force lightening, but Emperor Palpatine force lightenings the Rebel fleet after sucking out Force Dyad energy and it just knocks out their engines for a few minutes with no other ill effects. Maybe because shields?? Agree that is a stretch ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/229 "2019-12-23T20:52:03Z")
I think Palpatine was targetting hundreds, maybe thousands of ships at the same time so naturally the damage on any one ship would have been much less than what Rey was able to do to a single ship. The distance would have also been greater. I do agree that the elasticity of Jedi powers is quite annoying, not least Luke’s interplanetary holographic projection in the last film. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/230 "2019-12-23T21:30:08Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > I think Palpatine was targetting hundreds, maybe thousands of ships at the same time so naturally the damage on any one ship would have been much less than what Rey was able to do to a single ship. The distance would have also been greater. Also he was trying to avoid his own ships. At least I did not see any Star Destroyers falling. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/231 "2019-12-23T21:40:15Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Doesn’t force heal break star wars as much as the holdo maneuver? It is right up there with teleportation of themselves and objects and with levitating themselves (all past Jedi–even in the animated series–just fall, with dignity.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/232 "2019-12-23T21:52:50Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > I agree with this, having someone give broad story ideas is such a basic thing to overlook. That’s really what I was getting at; the first two trilogies were at least coherent across the three movies, even if they weren’t all that great, while these last three were dreadfully out of sync. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus\_alba](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quercus_alba/32/4061_2.png) [@Quercus\_alba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus_alba)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/233 "2019-12-24T21:28:10Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > … > Did anyone else notice the female couple share a kiss during the celebration at the Resistance base? I thought it was a nice touch and an overdue acknowledgement that, despite what George Lucas said ages ago, gay people _do_ exist in Star Wars. > … And easily edited out for marketing to repressive countries. :dubious: [https://deadline.com/2019/12/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-same-sex-kiss-singapore-cut-1202816684/](https://deadline.com/2019/12/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-same-sex-kiss-singapore-cut-1202816684/) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/234 "2019-12-24T23:29:05Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Did anyone else notice the female couple share a kiss during the celebration at the Resistance base? I thought it was a nice touch and an overdue acknowledgement that, despite what George Lucas said ages ago, gay people _do_ exist in Star Wars. What did George Lucas say years ago? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/235 "2019-12-24T23:30:28Z")
> [@Quercus\_alba](#): > > And easily edited out for marketing to repressive countries. :dubious: > [https://deadline.com/2019/12/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-same-sex-kiss-singapore-cut-1202816684/](https://deadline.com/2019/12/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-same-sex-kiss-singapore-cut-1202816684/) I heard they did this. Surprised it was not edited in China. I barely noticed the moment in the movie and if it was a quick shot/take, I guess they just remove it. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/236 "2019-12-25T17:52:55Z")
I’ve been avoiding this thread until the family and I finally saw it last night. I was 25 when A New Hope premiered and I thoroughly enjoyed it for what it was: a good guy/bad guy western in space with a dash of coming-of-age thrown in. The original trilogy was all about the protagonist growing up, the second trilogy was all about him not growing up. I’ll say this for Episode IX. It’s one of the rare movies where I can tell you the exact point where it went from “a lot of holes in it, but generally pretty good,” to “total train wreck.” I have to admire that kind of bright-line clarity, ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/237 "2019-12-25T17:59:36Z")
I’d put that point about 30 seconds in with Palpatine’s monologuing. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/238 "2019-12-26T20:46:59Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I’ll say this for Episode IX. It’s one of the rare movies where I can tell you the exact point where it went from “a lot of holes in it, but generally pretty good,” to “total train wreck.” I have to admire that kind of bright-line clarity, Is it when Rey turned up and finally met Palpatine? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/239 "2019-12-27T00:49:15Z")
1. The Last Jedi set up a wonderful movie where the merest remains of the Resistance and the merest remains of the First Order are at one another’s throats in a universe where a lot of people are suddenly realizing their power. I really would’ve liked to have seen that movie instead of seeing Yet Another Planet-Buster Destroyed By Scrappy Heroes (now with more planet-busters!). 2. Palpatine didn’t make any goddamned sense, nor did his plan. But I still had a lot of fun. Some things I haven’t seen mentioned yet: 3) “Dad?” “I know” was the bestest call-back in the history of callbacks, repeating and recontextualizing Solo’s line just perfectly. I loved the hell out of that. 4) When Ben got the light saber from Rey, he gave this little apologetic shrug to his ex-besties before murdering them, and that shrug was _hilarious_. 5) Same thing with Poe’s little flirty head-waggle to his ex and her responding head-shake shoot-down and his accepting shrug. That was one of the funnier jokes in the series. 6) The image of Rey crossing her lightsabers as the Emperor shoots lightning at her has the makings of an excellent “OK BOOMER” meme, as soon as spoilers are allowed. 7) When Luke raised his old ship out of the water, his right hand gestured, but his left hand was off-screen. I leaned over and told my wife, “His other hand’s holding a White Russian.” The Luke Abides. 8) I like how Rey is so conflicted about whether to kill the Emperor–but she turns around and casually dispatches a horde of Imperial Guards or whoever those red-robed bastards were. They’re mooks, their deaths don’t push you to the dark side, apparently. Abrams is a hot mess, and I cordially dislike most of the stuff he does, and I hate how he made Rey a Palpatine, and he missed a lot of slow-pitches from The Last Jedi IMO–but all that said, I was pretty satisfied with the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2019, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/240 "2019-12-27T01:15:03Z")
Some people are complaining about the movie [being Tran-phobic](https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/26/21037917/star-wars-rise-of-skywalker-rose-tico-kelly-marie-tran-screen-time-rey-finn-last-jedi). (Gotta say that having an actor that _died before filming for the movie began_ have more screen time to you can’t be great for your ego.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059.md?page=13)