# Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059 "2019-12-19T01:52:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/421 "2020-01-08T16:21:02Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > I agree that RoS was a case of “come up with cool visuals/one-liners, then do the bare minimum of scriptwriting to string them together, and ignore the lack of any actual story”. To me, the most emotion-filled moments were from C3PO (as he’s basically agreeing to die for the cause); that’s a tribute to the actor who was able to convey such emotion just by moving his head and arms, and to the character that had been established in all the previous movies, but also a pretty harsh indictment of the rest of the current movie. That scene kind of bothered me. You have this droid slave who’s declared his willingness to die in order to save his buddies. At the last moment, he has an idea for saving everyone that doesn’t require his death–but the person killing him ignores him and kills him anyway. Ha, ha! That C3PO! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/422 "2020-01-08T17:30:06Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That scene kind of bothered me. You have this droid slave who’s declared his willingness to die in order to save his buddies. At the last moment, he has an idea for saving everyone that doesn’t require his death–but the person killing him ignores him and kills him anyway. > > Ha, ha! That C3PO! Also, everyone treats him like crap for the entire movie up to that point. Then he does his noble self-sacrifice, and everyone has a sad for a minute. Then they immediately start treating the amnesiac C-3PO like crap again. ---
**Author:** ![ebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@ebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ebb)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/423 "2020-01-08T17:40:41Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That scene kind of bothered me. You have this droid slave who’s declared his willingness to die in order to save his buddies. At the last moment, he has an idea for saving everyone that doesn’t require his death–but the person killing him ignores him and kills him anyway. > > Ha, ha! That C3PO! If Star Wars were Parks and Recreation, then C3PO would be Garry. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/424 "2020-01-08T18:13:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Also, everyone treats him like crap for the entire movie up to that point. Then he does his noble self-sacrifice, and everyone has a sad for a minute. Then they immediately start treating the amnesiac C-3PO like crap again. I was really hoping that after his reboot C-3PO would ask R2 where Captain Antilles was. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/425 "2020-01-08T18:48:49Z")
> [@ebb](#): > > If Star Wars were Parks and Recreation, then C3PO would be Garry. Otherwise known as the [butt-monkey](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ButtMonkey). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/426 "2020-01-08T20:54:37Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Also, as a tiny nitpick that didn’t really affect the movie (there were too many giant plotholes/inconsistencies for this tiny one to matter), in the hyperspeed-skipping scene with the Falcon, it was running from TIE fighters, right? The ones that A New Hope established were too short-ranged to be found in the middle of space? And that various authorized printer materials specifically said did not have hyperspeed capacity? Again, not a big thing, but another example of the attitude of “Screw continuity, I’ve got gee-whiz images to make here” All the First Order TIE models have hyperdrives. They also have other stuff the Imperial ones didn’t, like shields and a second gunner. As seen already in TFA. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/427 "2020-01-08T23:08:37Z")
Speaking of continuity: if we take all of this as canon, then what might the Watsonian ramifications be for the earlier movies? 1. Back in REVENGE OF THE SITH, could Palpatine do the trick of possessing someone younger who’s strong in the Force and struck him down in rage? 2. If so, was that the keep-from-dying trick Darth Plagueis discovered? 3. If so, is the Emperor actually Plagueis? 4. When a lightning-fingers Emperor was getting advanced on by a kinda pissed-off Mace Windu, is it possible that Plan B was to _greatly_ piss the guy off right before a deathblow, and then, _oh, hey, Anakin is here, let’s go with that?_ 5. Once he had an aging-Ian-McDiarmid body and a messed-up face, was the plan to goad Anakin into rage-striking him down — to get the tall twentysomething body of a guy with male-model looks — only to maybe then reconsider only after the last bit of dirty work unexpectedly left that dope legless and hooked up to life-support? 6. If so, did Vader ever find out about that? 7. What, exactly, is Vader supposed to be have in mind when he made that pitch to Luke about _destroying the Emperor — as the Emperor has foreseen you can! — so we can rule the galaxy as father and son?_ 8. Why, exactly, does Vader stop Luke from striking down the Emperor in ROTJ? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/428 "2020-01-09T04:13:15Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Speaking of continuity: if we take all of this as canon, then what might the Watsonian ramifications be for the earlier movies? > > 1. Back in REVENGE OF THE SITH, could Palpatine do the trick of possessing someone younger who’s strong in the Force and struck him down in rage? > > 2. If so, was that the keep-from-dying trick Darth Plagueis discovered? > > 3. If so, is the Emperor actually Plagueis? > > 4. When a lightning-fingers Emperor was getting advanced on by a kinda pissed-off Mace Windu, is it possible that Plan B was to _greatly_ piss the guy off right before a deathblow, and then, _oh, hey, Anakin is here, let’s go with that?_ > > 5. Once he had an aging-Ian-McDiarmid body and a messed-up face, was the plan to goad Anakin into rage-striking him down — to get the tall twentysomething body of a guy with male-model looks — only to maybe then reconsider only after the last bit of dirty work unexpectedly left that dope legless and hooked up to life-support? > > 6. If so, did Vader ever find out about that? > > 7. What, exactly, is Vader supposed to be have in mind when he made that pitch to Luke about _destroying the Emperor — as the Emperor has foreseen you can! — so we can rule the galaxy as father and son?_ > > 8. Why, exactly, does Vader stop Luke from striking down the Emperor in ROTJ? Those are cool questions. I like how that adds a little subtext to Vader killing him at the end of RotJ - Palpatine could swap to Vader’s body, because Vader acting out of rage, but out of love for his son. ---
**Author:** ![Clawdio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d07c76/32.png) [@Clawdio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clawdio)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/429 "2020-01-09T19:58:15Z")
I thought it was OK, but I guess I had the following gripes: 1. All of the scenes with Lando felt extremely cringy and forced (heh, “forced”). 2. I liked the plot idea about the galaxy realizing they can’t win divided, but the massive fleet showing up at the final battle felt like a huge eye-roll moment to me in it’s execution. 3. The whole C3PO memory getting wiped/restored story line was a big yawn for me, would have rather seen more about Rey struggling with wanting to mete out vengeance (and maybe even slipping to the dark side a little), before ultimately coming back to the good side of the force with the help of Kylo Ren. Not sure if gripe: 4. Can’t decide if i loved or hated when Kylo Ren made some big leap near the end and hit the ledge and said: “Oww…”. I think i loved it. ---
**Author:** ![bbonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecb155/32.png) [@bbonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbonden)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/430 "2020-01-10T00:39:45Z")
Is there any official (or informed, or thoughtful) take on the title _Rise of Skywalker_? With the ending on Tatooine, I could see _Birth of Skywalker_, perhaps. _Legacy of Skywalker_ obviously works. But I don’t understand “_Rise_.” ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/431 "2020-01-10T05:50:38Z")
> [@bbonden](#): > > Is there any official (or informed, or thoughtful) take on the title _Rise of Skywalker_? > > With the ending on Tatooine, I could see _Birth of Skywalker_, perhaps. _Legacy of Skywalker_ obviously works. But I don’t understand “_Rise_.” My thinking was that it was a callback to the Emperor’s bestowing of his Sith name to Darth Vader (‘Rise, Lord Vader’), which is the point of the fall of the Republic and the beginning of the rule of the Empire, coupled to somebody taking a new name, now mirrored in the final defeat of the Empire with Rey taking the name Skywalker. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/432 "2020-01-10T15:11:44Z")
I saw it last week, but have been avoiding this thread because I didn’t feel like wading through nine pages. So I finally decided what the heck, and just read the last one. My biggest takeaways: 1: The movie wasn’t too bad. But it would have been a heck of a lot better if the previous two movies had planned to come to this point, instead of just “Hey, everything from the previous movie is now out the window, forget about it!”. 2: Finn and Rose are much more interesting characters than Rey and Poe, and the movie should have given them a heck of a lot more focus. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/433 "2020-01-10T15:26:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But it would have been a heck of a lot better if the previous two movies had planned to come to this point, instead of just “Hey, everything from the previous movie is now out the window, forget about it!”. It was kind of weird having _Star Wars_ wars, with each new movie attempting to cancel out the previous one. Has that ever happened with a franchise before? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/434 "2020-01-10T15:33:28Z")
I was kind of thinking Finn would turn out to somehow be a Skywalker, and not just Rey deciding she was one at the very end of the movie. He was the first of the rebel characters in this trilogy to pick up a lightsaber, and it could have made an interesting twist in a trilogy that really could have used one (no, I don’t count the return of Palpatine to be a good twist; I thought that was fucking lazy as shit writing from people who clearly had little to no good ideas to begin with). ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/435 "2020-01-10T15:40:17Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > It was kind of weird having _Star Wars_ wars, with each new movie attempting to cancel out the previous one. Has that ever happened with a franchise before? Has there ever been a more toxic fan base before? There was so much bitching and carrying on about Episodes 7 and 8, how are you surprised they tried to cater to those fans in some ways? TFA was bitched about because it wasn’t original enough, theh TLJ was bitched about because it did unexpected things and took the story in a different direction, and now ROS is being bitched about because they tried to adjust to those other criticisms. I have no idea how anyone could succeed in satisfying this part of the Star Wars fanbase. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/436 "2020-01-10T15:48:09Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Has there ever been a more toxic fan base before? There was so much bitching and carrying on about Episodes 7 and 8, how are you surprised they tried to cater to those fans in some ways? TFA was bitched about because it wasn’t original enough, theh TLJ was bitched about because it did unexpected things and took the story in a different direction, and now ROS is being bitched about because they tried to adjust to those other criticisms. > > I have no idea how anyone could succeed in satisfying this part of the Star Wars fanbase. I bitch about all the new movies (including Rogue One) because the characters do stupid things that don’t make sense and the nature of the Galaxy (from the force to the hyperdrive) is glaringly inconsistent, even within the same film, whether the overall outcome was “unexpected” or not. This is not about a bad or toxic fan base, but bad writing. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/437 "2020-01-10T15:54:33Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > I bitch about all the new movies (including Rogue One) because the characters do stupid things that don’t make sense and the nature of the Galaxy (from the force to the hyperdrive) is glaringly inconsistent, even within the same film, whether the overall outcome was “unexpected” or not. This is not about a bad or toxic fan base, but bad writing. Ok, sure it is. An actress was harrassed off of the internet by this fanbase. Then her character barely existed in the next movie. That is as toxic as it gets. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/438 "2020-01-10T16:02:47Z")
By the way, I’m not saying _all_ SW criticism is toxic fandom. Definitely not. Everybody is entitled to their opinions and all opinions are valid. But if you deny that there is a large element of Star Wars fans that are completely toxic and loud and horrible with their behavior, and that obviously they influenced decisions made on Ep 8 and 9, then I’m not sure what galaxy you’ve been living in. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/439 "2020-01-10T16:26:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > An actress was harrassed off of the internet by this fanbase. Please. How many people actively harassed her? A hundred? A thousand? Out of tens or hundreds of millions? We are talking a tiny, tiny _minority_ of the fan base. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/440 "2020-01-10T16:32:14Z")
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