# Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS!) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 19, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059 "2019-12-19T01:52:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/441 "2020-01-10T16:34:24Z")
The Internet has a way of magnifying both good and bad voices. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/442 "2020-01-10T16:44:47Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Please. How many people actively harassed her? A hundred? A thousand? Out of tens or hundreds of millions? We are talking a tiny, tiny _minority_ of the fan base. Oh so that makes it ok? :rolleyes: And I think you underestimate the harrassment campaigns. Also flooding rotten tomatoes with negative reviews even before the movies came out. Every comment section on every article having anything to do with Star Wars is full of this stuff. I’ve always loved Star Wars since I was a kid and I have enjoyed all of the sequels. Based on the commentary I see constantly, even in this thread, I must be either dumb, deluded, lacking in critical thinking, not able to identify good storytelling, or desperately struggling to not admit how much I hate everything. It makes being a Star Wars fan hard when this is present in every online conversation I see. There’s nothing wrong with someone saying that they personally didn’t like a movie. But many go way beyond that into actively insulting everyone that doesn’t agree with their opinion. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/443 "2020-01-10T18:52:11Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Ok, sure it is. > > An actress was harrassed off of the internet by this fanbase. Then her character barely existed in the next movie. That is as toxic as it gets. The fan base, or some element of it, may be toxic, but that’s not the sole reason, or even the primary reason, people bitch about these movies. Lucasfilm Ltd is not the victim of its fan base. Kelly Tran had the misfortune of doing a really good job at playing a horribly written character who made some really dumb decisions, said some really stupid things, and elicited way too many “huh?” responses from the audience. Honestly, I thought Tran’s performance was great—very expressive when the script called for it, even when the script itself didn’t make sense. So I HATE how Rose was portrayed in TLJ. It’s not that the character couldn’t have been salvaged in the third installment, only that bad writing made for a poorly constructed character and no amount of acting could have saved it. I hate TLJ and am not especially enthused by Rogue One and TFA because the writing was bad, and that’s irrespective of those other fans (or non-fans) who are racist, misogynistic POS’s. ETA: IMHO, the proper response for Abrams and his co-writer, I’m trying to salvage the trilogy after TLJ, would have been to do a better job writing Rose’s story (among others). That they didn’t only further demonstrates the incompetence of Lucasfilm, not the toxicity of the fan base. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/444 "2020-01-10T22:01:50Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Kelly Tran had the misfortune of doing a really good job at playing a horribly written character who made some really dumb decisions, said some really stupid things, and elicited way too many “huh?” responses from the audience. Maybe Disney could give her [the next game show](https://news.avclub.com/jar-jar-actor-ahmed-best-to-host-star-wars-game-show-on-1840180574). ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/445 "2020-01-10T22:05:37Z")
I’m curious if, in a parallel dimension where Rian doesn’t kill Snoke, does JJ bring Palpatine back? On one hand, bringing back Palpatine for no raisin should probably be avoided if possible, and if Snoke’s still there then JJ can remake ROTJ without Palpatine. On the other hand, Rey Palpatine isn’t as impactful if Palpatine isn’t the villain. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/446 "2020-01-10T22:11:16Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > I’m curious if, in a parallel dimension where Rian doesn’t kill Snoke, does JJ bring Palpatine back? > > On one hand, bringing back Palpatine for no raisin should probably be avoided if possible, and if Snoke’s still there then JJ can remake ROTJ without Palpatine. > > On the other hand, Rey Palpatine isn’t as impactful if Palpatine isn’t the villain. He could have made it so Snoke was really Palpatine all along, either through cloning, or some sort of possession via Dark Side Force ghost. He sort of did that already in the new movie, with the brief shot of tanks full of failed Snoke clones on Exegol. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/447 "2020-01-10T22:23:25Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > bringing back Palpatine for no raisin Palpatine kind of looks like a rasin. ([Also](http://m.quickmeme.com/meme/49bx)) ---
**Author:** ![Taber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ac91a4/32.png) [@Taber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taber)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2020, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/448 "2020-01-10T22:30:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > He could have made it so Snoke was really Palpatine all along, either through cloning, or some sort of possession via Dark Side Force ghost. He sort of did that already in the new movie, with the brief shot of tanks full of failed Snoke clones on Exegol. It would preserve the Rey Palpatine impact, and probably be less kludgy than what we got, and he probably had some Snoke twist planned. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/449 "2020-01-11T02:22:01Z")
Maybe for next movie one of the shocking twists will be Chewbacca going back to Endor and finding out he fathered a child with one of the Ewoks. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/450 "2020-01-11T03:58:53Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > Maybe for next movie one of the shocking twists will be Chewbacca going back to Endor and finding out he fathered a child with one of the Ewoks. What about an Ewok death cult, where they do Snoke’s bidding in exchange for receiving the washouts from Storm Trooper training as sacrifices? It’s not cannibalism if it’s a _teddy bear_ eating a human… ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/451 "2020-01-11T18:38:29Z")
> [@Taber](#): > > It would preserve the Rey Palpatine impact, and probably be less kludgy than what we got, and he probably had some Snoke twist planned. No, we have official word from Disney that there was no plan behind the new trilogy. At all. Rian Johnson was told flat out that they had no plan for how to resolve any of the things that were set up in the first movie, and no plan for what needed to be setup up for the third film. Also, I don’t believe J.J. Abrams actually knows how to write a resolution. Everything he does, not just Star Wars, is all setup, no payoff. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/452 "2020-01-11T18:47:41Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, we have official word from Disney that there was no plan behind the new trilogy. At all. Rian Johnson was told flat out that they had no plan for how to resolve any of the things that were set up in the first movie, and no plan for what needed to be setup up for the third film. How is this the same company that made the Marvel movies? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/453 "2020-01-12T02:29:51Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How is this the same company that made the Marvel movies? I could be wrong but… Because they had two different people running the show in Kathleen Kennedy and Kevin Feige (two K’s…heh). Kevin took an active role in the making/direction of the movies because he’s a massive fan of comic books and came from actively making movies (started from the bottom if you will) and wanted to. Kathleen is an executive in charge of the studio and, I don’t think, really has a stake in the game other than to keep her job and she treated the movies like a studio exec does instead of a creative/fan. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/454 "2020-01-12T02:38:22Z")
> [@](#): > > No, we have official word from Disney that there was no plan behind the new trilogy. At all. Rian Johnson was told flat out that they had no plan for how to resolve any of the things that were set up in the first movie, and no plan for what needed to be setup up for the third film. And given that, it’s rather immature of Abrams to effectively say “No, wait, I don’t like the way you resolved that! And I wanted you to set up this for me!”. Rey being a Palpatine, and the Emperor surviving and having been the one pulling the puppet strings, and so on, were all ideas that had potential. But they needed to be set up. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/455 "2020-01-12T06:58:27Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > How is this the same company that made the Marvel movies? In a sense, it isn’t. Marvel Studios launched the MCU when they were still an independent entity. Disney didn’t come along until partway through Phase 2. The first MCU movie to start production under Disney ownership was _Thor:The Dark World_. Previous movies were all distributed by Paramount or Universal (Disney did buy theatrical distribution rights to the first Avengers movie and Iron Man 3 from Paramount - which is why the movies appeared in theatres with the Disney logo, but the DVD and Blu-Rays were released by Paramount.) So the concept was laid out and a proven money-maker before Disney got involved. No need to fix what isn’t broken. On the other hand, when Disney bought Lucasfilm, Lucasfilm had nothing in the works other than the animated Clone Wars series and the now-suppressed Detours comedy show. It was Disney that decided to make more [del]money[/del] movies, and kick off a new trilogy from scratch. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/456 "2020-01-12T09:37:20Z")
> [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > It was Disney that decided to make more [del]money[/del] movies, and kick off a new trilogy from scratch. That’s not actually true. George Lucas had planned a new trilogy, a TV series, and was already in the earliest stages of developing a young Han Solo movie before he decided he was over it and sold it all to Disney. He expected them to follow through on his plans, but they took them in their own direction. Also, there’s a lot less Disney influence in Star Wars than most people think. Bob Iger has his say about things like distribution and other executive decisions, and also provide the funds, but Lucasfilm under Kathy Kennedy are largely independent and do their own thing. Any family-friendliness or “agenda” that is perceived is not due to Disney’s influence. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2020, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/457 "2020-01-12T14:35:34Z")
But they’re learning. > **[Marvel’s Kevin Feige Developing ‘Star Wars’ Movie for Disney](https://variety.com/2019/film/news/marvel-kevin-feige-star-wars-movie-1203350053/)** > > Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige is developing a new “Star Wars” movie for Disney, Variety has learned. Feige will join Lucasfilm president Kathleen Kennedy on an upcoming “St… Feige is giving a Star Wars movie a go. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/458 "2020-01-19T13:39:20Z")
Saw it again , still don’t understand all the negative reviews. It was a little slow in the middle but it was basically a typical fun SW movie. Do people expect Macbeth or Othello? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/459 "2020-01-19T14:00:21Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Saw it again , still don’t understand all the negative reviews. It was a little slow in the middle but it was basically a typical fun SW movie. Do people expect Macbeth or Othello? So you’re of the opinion that all Star Wars films are equally good? \*Empire \*is basically the same as _Clones_? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059/460 "2020-01-19T14:01:45Z")
If people didn’t consider the original Star Wars more than a “fun movie” in 1977, it would not have launched a media empire that continues to this day. So yes, people wanted something closer to Shakespearian than Michaelbayian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-spoilers/845059.md?page=24)