Star Wars The Rise of Skywalker (SPOILERS!)

Cafe Society
21

Depends on your definition of fanboy is, I suppose. If it’s “someone who responds critically to bad writing in Star Wars movies,” then I guess guilty as charged. But I would note there is a wide gap between the false dichotomy that DigitalC offers, whereby one must either think the OT films were flawless, or that they just plain suck, and that, whatever your vote, you must vote in lock step on the NT, too.

I don’t own merchandise. I don’t watch the cartoons. I don’t have Disney+ or by extension watch whatever is on it. Though I do watch YouTube videos about Star Wars, among other film criticism, it’s a fairly limited set and none of the channels are specifically devoted to Star Wars (Red Letter Media, Lindsay Ellis, and Renegade Cut are the ones I subscribe to). The only Star Wars media I have consumed, beyond the theatrically released films, are the Ewok movies. As a kid, I loved them, along with Return of the Jedi, because of the furry Ewoks (I was born in the 80s, sue me). As an adult, I acknowledge there are flaws in the OT too, find that RotJ is particularly tiring in spite of my childhood devotion to the Ewoks, and see that the Ewok movies are just a hot mess which I can’t even stand to look at anymore.

That I do not agree that the OT “sucks”, either on a subjective enjoyment level or as filmmaking craft, does not mean I must therefore agree the NT is “just as good” lest I be decried as intellectually dishonest or biased. It’s the sort of false dichotomy and equivocation that the real “fanboys” (those blindly devoted to all things Star Wars) rely on to trumpet the charge for Disney and it’s latest venture into a galaxy far away.

I say the Emperor has no clothes. You (general you, here) point to a hole in one of the Emperor’s old, discarded garments and say “Hey, look! There’s a hole here, too. So I guess that means that you must think the a Emperor never had any clothes.”

No. There is a difference between a few holes here and there in the old fabric, and walking around stark raving naked in the new. I am happy to acknowledge the flaws in the OT, but I do not grant that they are quite so gaping as those in the NT.

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They are the same holes, its the same damn outfit.

23

I will say this thread is making me appreciate TLJ more.

My biggest complaint there was some middle-brow gibberish “Thats how were gonna beat them” (huh), Canto Blight and the corner Rian stuck ep 9 in

Thats not so bad compared to other movies,

24

I don’t understand this line of reasoning. I cannot dislike the new trilogies if I liked the former ones?

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“LOL - The Rise of Skywalker Cast REACTS to END of MOVIE in Interview | Disney Star Wars in Trouble”

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I’ve just never heard anyone articulate a single complaint about new movies that did not also apply in spades to the originals. Just look at ASL’s complaints, he’s describing the original movies as much as the new ones.

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Take this as analogy:

Just because the new trilogy and the old trilogy both ended with a show down with “the Emperor” does not mean they are the same. But your argument, in a nutshell, seems to boil down to that, as if there is no distinction in how the two trilogies got us to that end or how the characters developed along the way. The mere fact that it ends in a showdown with the Emperor means that I must love or hate them both equally, to follow your logic as I’m seeing it.

28

Here are your criticisms of the current trilogy:

Each one of those are equally applicable to the original trilogy too. Poor acting and writing, no pre-planned connection through the trilogy. It’s not that they match exactly plot point for plot point, it’s that the general sense of why you dislike the new stuff is what Star Wars has been guilty of from day one.

I personally adore the original trilogy, was very disappointed in the prequels, and have really enjoyed the new trilogy. Though there are flaws in all of them, it’s about the balance between the good and bad things (ironically), and I assess them individually. My criticisms are, I hope, subjective and personal, and aren’t always logical or consistent. I will not say anything is objectively bad if they have a strong popular following, all I can truly say is that I didn’t like it. Far too often the haters of the new trilogy have argued they’re objectively ruined and awful and consider that as giving a fair criticism. They are wrong to do so, and need to grow up and learn to be more circumspect.

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But they (the new trilogy films) kind of are (objectively bad). And that last bit is an ad hominem.

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I haven’t seen the new movie, but this seems to have evolved into a discussion of the whole series, which seems to happen with every new Star Wars release - perhaps necessarily. That being the case, I don’t feel like this is the thread-shit it might otherwise be. I apologize if I’m wrong.

I was 12 when Star Wars came out. I was the target audience, a nerdy sci-fi loving bookish boy. LOVED it. Liked Empire a lot, and over time, I grew to like it even more, but that was the end of my love of all things Star Wars.

They suck. They all suck in significant ways. Ewoks, Jar-Jar, Podracing and an annoying kid version of Darth FUCKING Vader, bad acting: bad acting EVERYWHERE!, Boba/Jango-Fett, clones, midichlorians, the younglings!, NOOOOOOOO! Recycling the friggin’ Death Star like a bad sci-fi Groundhog Day. . .recycling elements in general that didn’t seem so much like a recurring theme than lazy, lazy writing.

I’ve grown to like Adam Driver a great deal in other things, but I think he’s badly miscast in this series (I haven’t seen Skywalker, but I can’t see how it could change my mind). Feel like the whole Rey/Ben connection wasn’t done NEARLY as well as they might have. Interesting idea, badly handled. Don’t like what they did with Luke, though he went out like a bad-ass, at least. There’s more, but why bother?

My friend is a Star Wars fan, and he winces when I get started on Star Wars. There’s little after Empire that I can’t spend 5 minutes eviscerating, but I think it’s because I WAS such a huge fan. Hate isn’t true, bitter, distilled hate unless it started from love. I thought the Solo movie, of all things, was the third-best movie of the series. Thank Christ it bombed though, or else I’d have to endure seeing a Boba-Fett movie talked about everywhere.

I didn’t see Rogue One. I started watching it once, and five minutes in decided I really didn’t want to see it. I was watching it only because I should, because it was Star Wars. I didn’t give a rat’s ass about a Star Wars prequel that didn’t involve the main characters. I didn’t like the series so much anymore, why should I watch a movie that guarantees anyone I get to know and like are gonna die? Screw it.

For the most part, just shitty, shitty movies with mostly good/great effects. If the first Star Wars wasn’t such a huge game-changer in so many ways(incredible effects, a big-budget sci-fi movie, one of the biggest, earliest summer blockbuster movies, huge cultural touchstone), I wonder if we’d still be talking about it today. I loved the first two movies, and continue to love both sci-fi and fantasy movies to this day, but I’m astounded by how bad this series is, and yet it still gets serious money to make, serious attention, and serious box-office returns - and serious criticism.

Couldn’t they have got some of the great old Sci-Fi writers involved at some point? Leigh Brackett was involved in Empire (the last GOOD one) before she passed, and the movie contained several major elements from her treatment. DC Fontana just recently passed, Harlan Ellison was around a good long time - just budget in the necessary court costs. :slight_smile: I loved Star Wars, but there’s no hate like hate distilled from love. What a monumental waste.

And yes, I’ll probably see Skywalker too. :o This series is verging on codependency now.

31

I just got back from an early showing and I thoroughly loved it. I think, as with TLJ, a lot of people are going in expecting a Great Film from a series that has always been a B-movie about space wizards with laser swords that just so happens to have a big budget. It was fun and I had fun.

I was a little disappointed that Rey turned out to be related to Somebody Important after all, but it certainly wasn’t a twist I saw coming. (I always had her pegged as a reincarnation of Anakin.) There’s got to be an entire story to be told about how Palpatine convinced someone to bear his child, and I’d love to see that tale get told at some point, perhaps in a novel or in a comic.

If there’s one major complaint I have, it’s that 3PO getting mind-wiped just to have R2 reload him from a backup was a copout, and it raises the question of why R2 never did that when he was mind-wiped the first time back in Episode 3. I also would’ve liked more explanation of how and why ol’ Sheev created Snoke, though the half-grown Snokes in his cloning vat were a nice touch. The flashback scene to younger Luke and Leia looked way too artificial - it’s almost as if the CGI they were using has gotten worse since Rogue One. Other than that, though, the visual effects were well-handled, and the violence felt a lot more real and impactful than it has in the past.

Ben’s redemption was well-handled, and Palpatine’s self-destruction was a nice callback to Episode 3 where he almost did the same thing but for Anakin turning on the Jedi to save him. The reveal of what the title means at the very end wasn’t what I was expecting, but it makes sense - all this time that Rey’s been searching for her identity, she wound up building one of her own. (And it wasn’t like she was gonna go around calling herself Rey Palpatine, after all.)

All of Leia’s scenes had been shot back during the making of TFA, so it’s surprising how well they fit into this movie - Abrams must have had some idea of how Ep 9 would wind up going, possibly as a backup plan in case Treverow lost the project.

Did anyone else notice the female couple share a kiss during the celebration at the Resistance base? I thought it was a nice touch and an overdue acknowledgement that, despite what George Lucas said ages ago, gay people do exist in Star Wars.

I thought it was a fitting conclusion to the saga, and I can’t wait to see what’s in the future of Star Wars.

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That may be so, but that really wasn’t the question;) I don’t think it’s fair to say that if you liked the OT, you have to like the ST too just because you personally haven’t heard a unique and distinct criticism that applies to one trilogy and not the other. There are a lot of holes that argument.

But I’m digressing. The point of this thread was to discuss TROS and see what people liked and didn’t like. I wasn’t looking to pit one trilogy series against another, although it might be unavoidable.

33

I just saw this. I thought it was terrible. Hyperactive, ADD, disjointed and nonsensical.

There was no sense of plot, or drama, or tension. Everything happened at breakneck speed and it felt like no camera angle lasted more than 5 seconds. It was like watching a 2-hour fireworks display.

The “banter” was painful and some of it was so awkwardly trying to emulate modern Twitter-speak that it took me out of the movie (e.g. “They fly now?!” during the stormtrooper chase)

The plot made no sense and seemed to serve only to create an excuse for an endless string of “impressive” CGI vistas, battle sequences, and forced “weighty” moments (apparently nothing was weighty enough to merit more than 5 seconds of screen time though!) Among the absurdities - how did Palpatine - basically 1 guy, out of power and cut off from the Empire - secretly build and staff an entire mega-fleet of star destroyers, with each of them carrying their own planet destroying super weapon that previously required a small artificial moon to power and operate?

Maybe I’m turning into a cranky old man at age 32, but my god, this sucked.

34

One assumes he had discovered Exagol (which is probably the new canon’s equivalent of Korriban judging from the ancient giant sculptures) before the Battle of Endor, seeing as the Wayfinder was on the Death Star at the time, and was probably planning the Final Order fleet as a backup in case he failed to turn Luke and crush the Rebellion. Honestly, it’s not too different than what he did in the old EU novels. The Final Order’s fleet is probably staffed mostly by clones aside from the officer corps, which the First Order had plenty of to spare.

35

Did I catch that right, they have a Fleet of Star Destroyers with Death Star Lasers now?
Gaah.

Why I decided not to watch this film was really simple - there was no way to make it a good ending after TLJ. Whatever you think about the movies on their own, TLJ did kill any way to make a satisfying, smoothly linked third part of the ST.

And that is something that cannot be said about the OT - Empire Strikes Back was a perfect Setup for a finale, and ROTJ delivered on this conclusion to a Heroes journey.

Which is the absolute Problem of this new trilogy - Rey, Poe and Finn do not go through any interesting development. And Kylos development is - haphazard to say the least.

Where is the development of Rey as a Skywalker? She does not at any time create a connection to Luke OR Leia. If she should honor anyone it should be Ben, so she should adopt his Name.

Both Rian Johnsons direction or JJ’s direction could have led to interesting trilogies, but by having two artistically and philosophically opposed guys head the movies and not realising this, Disney dropped the ball.

36

At some point early on in the movie, I started to think of the film as the sequel to the alternate-universe Episode 8 that J.J. Abrams would have directed, and not the Episode 8 that was actually made. All that jumbled exposition and veers in character development? That’s just because I didn’t see the previous film.

It helped a bit.

37

Just got back and my short review is, “Um… Wow??” :smiley:

(Forgive late-night rambling…)

So many awesome moments and so many corny-ass moments. I think, at some points, some comic relief from Porgs would’ve been preferable to some silly dialogue.

I will point out that the KyloRey kiss was not one of romantic attraction. It was love, er… of some sort, as I felt it. They’re related, she couldn’t save his soul, he could only save her, yadda yadda. It’s not like they were ever going to have Jedi/Sith kids. Him dying after all that looked totally dopey and cheesy. But the kiss was not some teenage-crush ender.

Also cheesy was the, “Hey, look! Other people want to help and they all showed up at the same time!” Groan. I was waiting to see Darth Santa Claus streak by real quick in an X-Wing just to hint at how equal we all really are! Double groan.

But overall, I should digress. Why bother to hate or dissect this? It’s Star Wars, not Shakespeare or Star Trek or Firefly. It’s got Muppets, and good ones!

And let’s all remember throughout this thread that (paraphrasing) “We are the spark that creates the light of fighting ignorance…” or something. :slight_smile:

TL/DR - I still loved it. Nothing looks or sounds like Star Wars and, hey, I was 6.5 years old when I saw Episode IV. I’m turning 49 for episode IX, so let’s end it, huh? Salute to Daisy Ridley. I thought she was the best in this one.

38

Rey is Sheev’s granddaughter and Ben is the grandson of Anakin, who Sheev “fathered” using the Force. I guess that makes them second cousins once removed.

Which I guess means that that nonexistent spoiler people thought they found in Disney Infinity four years ago was kinda true after all.

Honestly, I would’ve loved it if the Enterprise, or Serenity, or the TARDIS, or Battlestar Galactica had been part of that fleet.

39

My bolding. And LOLOL! :smiley: I thought the same thing at the end. “Hi. Palpatine. Rey Palpatine.” Nah. Won’t work too well around the post-first order Imperial time of galaxy rule.

And it was fitting. I was quite happy with all the saber sequences. I thought Driver and Ridley were awesome. (Of course, more Luke Skywalker would’ve been cool… whatevs.) :smiley:

40

Maybe I’m easily please, but I absolutely loved it.

When Luke raised the X Wing echoing that amazing scene from Empire, I actually cried.