# Star Wars VII, VIII, IX possibly to be retconned away {Warning Spoilers for other Star Wars movies} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [June 30, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809 "2020-06-30T16:38:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 35
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/682 "2023-04-08T06:12:49Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > She is 100% as iconic as the OT characters I think this is hyperbolic in the extreme. Iconic doesn’t just mean that you personally like her or her performance. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/683 "2023-04-08T06:34:14Z")
> [@ralfy](#): > > The first trilogy was goofy because it’s meant for kids. They tried to make the franchise more adult with the second trilogy and it ended up banal. They then rehashed material from the first trilogy and the results were also banal. Very true, The first trilogy is head and shoulders above the other two as regards entertainment and impact. But the cow demands milking so let’s do more of the same! let’s have more mystical stuff, loads more jedis, loads more people who are a bit like Vader, let’s have more people who are relatives of surprising people, let’s have more duels where surprising characters die, let’s have more quirky droids, let’s make the story _much_ more complicated. No matter that you have no coherent story to tell or characters that people really care about. The only additional Star Wars movie that has really stood up to scrutiny has been Rogue One which was very much _not_ more of the same. It was a small and simple story told on a grand scale. It didn’t overreach itself and was much the better for it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/684 "2023-04-08T06:47:14Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think this is hyperbolic in the extreme. In the _extreme_, you say? Now that’s leading by example (of hyperbole) > [@](#): > > Iconic doesn’t just mean that you personally like her or her performance. Are you aware of just how _many_ young women cosplay as Rey? I know just my provincial little ComicCon will have multiple Rey cosplays later this month. More than any Hans or Lukes or anything other than anonymous troopers. She’s definitely iconic. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/685 "2023-04-08T07:16:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Are you aware of just how _many_ young women cosplay as Rey? I know just my provincial little ComicCon will have multiple Rey cosplays later this month. More than any Hans or Lukes or anything other than anonymous troopers. She’s definitely iconic. She’s recognisable and in the most recent new film that young women will have seen. If that’s the only audience that the franchise are bothered about then they may well get a good proportion of them to watch another film with her in it. More widely? I doubt her wider cultural significance and iconic status. Walk down a street and ask a thousand random people to name an iconic Star Wars character. Where do you think she ranks amongst those answers? Higher than certain droids I could mention? Ask a thousand random people who Luke Skywalker’s father is and a fair proportion of those who haven’t even seen the flim can tell you. Do the same regarding Rey’s famous relatives or even Kylo Ren. How many will know? How many will say “who”? It would certainly be possible to create a good Star Wars film with her in it. I just don’t think any of the latest trilogy have done so thus far and yet another one with more of the same isn’t striking me as a big draw. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/686 "2023-04-08T07:23:11Z")
> [@ralfy](#): > > Given that, they should just give the franchise a rest, but given the amount invested and opportunity costs, they’ll probably just milk it for what it’s got, similar to what’s done for some TV shows. I think so too, do less, do it better, do it different. I think “Andor” was particularly good for that reason. Two seasons, not many episodes, compelling but small-scale characters. No gimmicks, no straining to make parts of the story match up, plenty of “show don’t tell”. But there is just so much dross associated with the universe now that it is being stretched to breaking point. I’ve lost much of my previously warm feeling to it in the same way as the overblown and overcomplicated superhero “universe” cash cows. Oh, for a single standalone rollercoaster ride of a movie now and again. ---
**Author:** ![TheTooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@TheTooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTooth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/687 "2023-04-08T07:39:22Z")
JJ Abrams is great at putting pictures on the screen, his Star Trek and Star Wars stuff both look amazing. But keep him away from writing implements of any kind. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/688 "2023-04-08T08:52:24Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > More widely? I doubt her wider cultural significance and iconic status. You can doubt all you want, it doesn’t cancel what I see with my own eyes. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Where do you think she ranks amongst those answers? On a survey where 99% of the answers will be “Darth Vader”? What’s the point of that? > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Higher than certain droids I could mention? Why would I expect her to rank higher than characters with a 40-year lead? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/689 "2023-04-08T13:43:56Z")
> [@TheTooth](#): > > JJ Abrams is great at putting pictures on the screen, his Star Trek and Star Wars stuff both look amazing. But keep him away from writing implements of any kind. JJ Abrams is a curator, not a creator. He’s great at repurposing bits and pieces of stuff he likes, but he’s never had an original idea in his life. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/690 "2023-04-08T15:19:03Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > On a survey where 99% of the answers will be “Darth Vader”? Not a chance in hell that 99% of the answers will be “Darth Vader” but that’s still simple to deal with, ask them to name a character who _isn’t_ Darth Vader, Does she make a strong showing in that poll? I think she still ranks behind the others I mentioned. You can admit to that and still like the character. One of my favourite characters would not appear high up that list either. Doesn’t bother me. > [@MrDibble](#): > > What’s the point of that? Well I’m saying that I don’t think she is as well-known, iconic or culturally significant as the original characters I listed (I actually think the list is wider than I first gave but nevermind). > [@MrDibble](#): > > Why would I expect her to rank higher than characters with a 40-year lead? If you think she is as well-known, iconic or culturally significant as those original characters you should expect her to rank right up there with those characters. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/691 "2023-04-08T15:26:43Z")
> [@TheTooth](#): > > JJ Abrams is great at putting pictures on the screen, his Star Trek and Star Wars stuff both look amazing. Whoa! Let’s not get carried away. Unless you like artificial lens flares and “found footage” out of focus rapid zooms. You know what else looks good? An ermine violin. But the proof is in the playing. Does it make a pleasing sound? Abrams’ ST films screech like nails on a chalkboard. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/692 "2023-04-08T16:55:41Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > JJ Abrams is a curator, not a creator. He’s great at repurposing bits and pieces of stuff he likes, but he’s never had an original idea in his life. More to the point, he’s great at setups, and absolutely terrible at resolutions. TFA worked, even if it was a retread, because it setup interesting questions (who are Rey’s parents, what happened to Luke, etc.), and didn’t have to provide any answers. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/693 "2023-04-08T17:09:21Z")
> [@](#): > > I would have gone with someone besides JJ Abrams. True for any franchise or idea. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/694 "2023-04-08T17:11:36Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Not a chance in hell that 99% of the answers will be “Darth Vader Fine. 96.3% then… > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think she still ranks behind the others I mentioned. And I’ve said why that would be the case. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > If you think she is as well-known, iconic or culturally significant as those original characters Did _I_ say that? _I_ just said she is definitely iconic. _I_ said nothing about relative ranking, myself. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/695 "2023-04-08T17:29:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Fine. 96.3% then… no, nowhere near that but irrelevant to my point anyway. > [@MrDibble](#): > > _I_ just said she is definitely iconic And you are free to hold that personal opinion. People have all sorts of opinions about lots of characters in the universe and differing standards for what would count as “iconic”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/696 "2023-04-08T18:03:52Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > no, nowhere near that OK, 94.333… And that’s my final offer. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > And you are free to hold that personal opinion. No shit. What have we all been talking about, but personal opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/697 "2023-04-08T18:54:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > JJ Abrams is a curator, not a creator. He’s great at repurposing bits and pieces of stuff he likes, but he’s never had an original idea in his life. I think that is a fair statement. Looking through his back catalogue, I though the 2009 Star Trek was fun and Super 8 was diverting enough but there’s not a huge amount in there that is hugely innovative, not much that’ll live long in the memory. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/698 "2023-04-08T20:32:44Z")
> [@dorvann](#): > > I wonder how Star Wars fans would respond to a “Star Wars” film with a different type of story line: > > 1. A First Contact story with a new species… I’d love a movie or series of _“Tales From the Cantina”,_ focusing on the alien races that hang out drinking in Mos Eisley. Infinite backstories of different planets, religions, societies. And the wild stories they could tell. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/699 "2023-04-08T20:45:54Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > I think that is a fair statement. Looking through his back catalogue, I though the 2009 Star Trek was fun and Super 8 was diverting enough but there’s not a huge amount in there that is hugely innovative, not much that’ll live long in the memory. I don’t think it’s just that he’s not innovative - I think he’s actively opposed to innovation. That’s what I meant by “curator.” If he’s given a world to work with, like he was with Stars War and Trek, he won’t see it as his job to expand it or change it. He’s a fanboy, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/700 "2023-04-08T20:58:12Z")
Well certainly “safe” could be applied to a lot of what he’s done but he _has_ entertained me from time to time. I can’t deny that. But sure, if a new Abrams movie comes out I won’t be wondering “what exciting thing has he done with this?” Like I was when the Coens had a go at the western with “True Grit” ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/701 "2023-04-08T21:00:35Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I’d love a movie or series of _“Tales From the Cantina”,_ focusing on the alien races that hang out drinking in Mos Eisley. Infinite backstories of different planets, religions, societies. I think something like that as an anthology series would be perfect. A Black Mirror in the Star Wars universe. Different directors, different styles etc. Like I said previously, pick a small story and tell it well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809.md?page=34) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809.md?page=36)