# Star Wars VII, VIII, IX possibly to be retconned away {Warning Spoilers for other Star Wars movies} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [June 30, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809 "2020-06-30T16:38:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/722 "2023-04-18T17:22:06Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Which is a shame, because for most people we understand that to be summoned to see a boss in person is an intimidating thing, and can be used as an indication you are in REAL trouble. Whether it’s being called to the principal’s office or being told the boss needs to see you, that’s a cultural thing we all understand as meaning you’re in deep shit. And they just blew it. The writing and editing of the scene fails to properly build tension and address character. Vader isn’t Krennic’s boss, though. Vader is his boss’s hatchet man, but at this point in the saga he’s still somewhat of an unknown quality. He doesn’t hold a military rank, or any sort of official position in the Empire. Krennic walked into that meeting thinking Vader was just the Emperor’s pawn, and isn’t nearly as important to Palpatine as a high ranking Imperial officer like Krennic. It’s only a few days after this scene that one Imperial officer mouths off to Vader about his “sad devotion to his ancient religion,” and gets choked out for his trouble, so Krennic’s not the only one in the Imperial hierarchy who doesn’t appreciate exactly what Vader is. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/723 "2023-04-18T21:43:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I think - and I know I’m the 188888888th person to say this - what really needs to happen is to stop making Star Wars things. The average quality is just abysmal at this point, because the priority has become the generation of content. Some of the current Star Wars stuff is still great. They just need to do a better job of filtering. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2023, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/724 "2023-04-18T22:09:58Z")
I’ll put up with a few shitty episodes of the mandalorian for any more of Andor. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/725 "2023-04-19T17:04:50Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Some of the current Star Wars stuff is still great I haven’t seen “Andor” yet but I’m told it’s excellent. But that seems to be the only recent stuff that is so reviewed. As long as someone at Disney is tasked with the mandate “produce Star Wars content at high volume” it is inevitable most of it will suck really badly. The same is true of their desperate push to pump out Marvel movies at an incredible rate; it’s what led to the movies being less like Iron Man and more like The Eternals. You’ll still have the odd winner but most will be formulaic and dull. Even the ones that aren’t BAD are repetitive and forgettable. I really struggle to believe three new Star Wars movies would be any good at all right now; I honestly do not think Disney has the organizational capability to pull that off. Indeed, I cannot help thinking we are at some point soon going to see a crash in the amusement park movie/TV show market. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/726 "2023-04-19T17:19:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I think - and I know I’m the 188888888th person to say this - what really needs to happen is to stop making Star Wars things. The average quality is just abysmal at this point, because the priority has become the generation of content. I’m sorry you feel that way, but for me, this is a golden era for Star Wars. I’ve enjoyed everything produced since Disney took over. I like the diversity of storytelling styles. The new characters are interesting. I don’t have to wait years before something new is released, and I can conveniently watch all of it. And then rewatch it again. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/727 "2023-04-19T18:25:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It’s only a few days after this scene that one Imperial officer mouths off to Vader about his “sad devotion to his ancient religion,” and gets choked out for his trouble, so Krennic’s not the only one in the Imperial hierarchy who doesn’t appreciate exactly what Vader is. Indeed. There is this idea among the Imperial Officers at the time that the force is just this overrated hocus pocus (a similar point of view that Han Solo has when he meets Obi Won and Luke). So Vader is an Emperor’s favorite, but no one has much idea what he’s actually capable of. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/728 "2023-04-19T22:22:17Z")
Personally, I was quite disappointed with Andor, but at least the first two seasons of The Mandalorian were great (I’ve only seen a few episodes of the third season yet), as was Rogue 1, and parts of the Obi-Wan and Boba Fett shows were also good. I’ve also heard that most of the recent animation work is good, though I haven’t seen much of that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/729 "2023-04-19T22:25:44Z")
Did you watch the whole season of Andor? I ask because I haven’t yet met anyone who has seen the whole season and didn’t like it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/730 "2023-04-19T22:34:51Z")
No, I gave up on it after all the jumping around. None of the characters from the first three episodes (including the main character) were in the next three, and then we jumped back to the character from the first episodes. The first three episodes were about a guy who was in way over his head with a couple of rent-a-cops, and whose entire prior adventuring experience was going on a single hunt where almost his whole team got wiped out. Then there were the episodes with the guy who was hypercompetent at everything and knew all about small-group tactics. Either one of those characters could have made for an interesting story, but decide which one of the two you’re going to tell about. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/731 "2023-04-19T23:21:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I was quite disappointed with Andor, but at least the first two seasons of The Mandalorian were great I am literally the opposite 😃. Thought The Mandalorian was pretty weak and didn’t remotely live up to the hype. Was pleasantly surprised by Andor, especially the internal/external political scheming from multiple factions. It’s no KOTOR 2, but IMHO it’s better-than-average Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/732 "2023-04-19T23:27:54Z")
Star Wars has always been entertaining but extremely flawed, from day one. Anyone expecting it to be anything else is in for disappointment. Granted some things are better like Empire Strikes Back or Revenge of the Sith (which is always at or near the top of best SW movies by people who saw them all at once) and some are worse like Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones, but the grand majority is just a giant blob of “fun but just ok” space opera. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/733 "2023-04-19T23:35:53Z")
You missed some absolutely amazing Star Wars. Some of the best writing and acting in any Star Wars, ever, in the second half of the season. I hope you’ll try again sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2023, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/734 "2023-04-19T23:48:45Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You missed some absolutely amazing Star Wars. Some of the best writing and acting in any Star Wars, ever, in the second half of the season. I hope you’ll try again sometime.   Agreed. If nothing else, watch the episodes with Andy Serkis. (Wiki indicates those are Andor-8,9,10.) Treat it as if it’s its own miniseries; you don’t really need to watch what comes before or after. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/735 "2023-04-20T00:26:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The first three episodes were about a guy who was in way over his head with a couple of rent-a-cops, and whose entire prior adventuring experience was going on a single hunt where almost his whole team got wiped out. Then there were the episodes with the guy who was hypercompetent at everything and knew all about small-group tactics. Huh, I don’t see how to read Andor in the first three episodes as anything other than a highly competent killer. First scene he’s in, he defeats two armed guards with his bare hands, killing one accidentally, then executing the other in cold blood. Second episode, they have Stellan Skarsgaard show up to basically say, “I’m the best spy in the galaxy and this guy is so good at spy stuff I had to meet him in person.” Third episode, he and Skarsgaard wipe out an Imperial ambush, despite being caught with their guard down. All of that seems totally in keeping with the expertise he shows in the second arc. Not sure what you’re referring to when you talk about his previous team getting wiped out. Do you mean the flashbacks to when he was a kid on the jungle planet? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/736 "2023-04-20T00:30:22Z")
Yeah, he was stealing important imperial tech by simply walking in and taking it, dude was a pro already. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/737 "2023-04-20T00:39:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Huh, I don’t see how to read Andor in the first three episodes as anything other than a highly competent killer. First scene he’s in, he defeats two armed guards with his bare hands, killing one accidentally, then executing the other in cold blood. He accidentally kills one, and then he kills the other in very hot blood, with his hands shaking because he’s panicking. And then he goes on to literally tell his closest friends that he’s in way over his head in more trouble than he can fix himself. This isn’t something subtle-- They just come right out and say it out loud. And yes, I’m referring to the flashbacks to when he was a kid, which were the only previous experience he had of working in a team. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/738 "2023-04-20T00:43:26Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > He accidentally kills one, and then he kills the other in very hot blood, with his hands shaking because he’s panicking [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T\_fcnOJc-R4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_fcnOJc-R4) _raised eyebrow_ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/739 "2023-04-20T00:45:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And yes, I’m referring to the flashbacks to when he was a kid, which were the only previous experience he had of working in a team. Seemed clear to me that he’d been working with his adoptive parents, and then likely his close friends on Ferrix, at various sorts of shady enterprises for many years, though that was never stated outright. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/740 "2023-04-20T00:51:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > He accidentally kills one, and then he kills the other in very hot blood, with his hands shaking because he’s panicking. Killing him in hot blood would be because he’s angry or vengeful. He kills the second guard because he does the math and realizes there’s no way he can let the guy go. That’s cold blooded, even if he’s shaking with adrenaline at the time. He’s absolutely not panicking. The fallout is more than he can resolve himself, and he needs help to get off planet - when you said he was in over his head with the guards, I thought you meant the actual confrontation with them. After the alarm is up, he’s essentially stranded in hostile territory with no money and almost no resources, which is bad news even for a trained agent. > [@Chronos](#): > > And yes, I’m referring to the flashbacks to when he was a kid, which were the only previous experience he had of working in a team. He’s like fourteen in those flashbacks, and in his early forties in the “present” scenes. Why are you assuming he didn’t do anything for the intervening ~25 years? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/741 "2023-04-20T00:59:25Z")
40s? I thought canon had Andor in his 20s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809.md?page=38)