# Star Wars VII, VIII, IX possibly to be retconned away {Warning Spoilers for other Star Wars movies} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [June 30, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809 "2020-06-30T16:38:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/742 "2023-04-20T01:02:54Z")
I was guessing based on Diego Luna’s age, which is 44. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/743 "2023-04-20T01:07:05Z")
Based on Wookiepedia he was 28. And was 9 when stolen. The main point stands though. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/744 "2023-04-20T01:10:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I was guessing based on Diego Luna’s age, which is 44. While I would normally adopt a similar logic, it can’t apply here, because by that same logic, he was dead at 36. A bit of a paradox. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/745 "2023-04-20T04:47:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And yes, I’m referring to the flashbacks to when he was a kid, which were the only previous experience he had of working in a team. That is not the case, as comes out later. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/746 "2023-04-20T04:59:58Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > No, I gave up on it after all the jumping around. None of the characters from the first three episodes (including the main character) were in the next three, and then we jumped back to the character from the first episodes. > > The first three episodes were about a guy who was in way over his head with a couple of rent-a-cops, and whose entire prior adventuring experience was going on a single hunt where almost his whole team got wiped out. Then there were the episodes with the guy who was hypercompetent at everything and knew all about small-group tactics. Either one of those characters could have made for an interesting story, but decide which one of the two you’re going to tell about. That, to me, was good writing. The way I see it, not everyone thrives in a familiar environment. Cassian starts out stuck in a rut. His friends and family may love him, but they also think he’s a loser and a screw up, so like many people do, he conforms to their expectations. It was only when he was taken outside of his comfort zone, to a place where nobody knew him, that he could allow himself be a new, more competent person. I found that very relatable - and especially how he reverted back when he visited home, because personal growth is never easy and straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/747 "2023-04-20T14:08:10Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > They’re going faster than 670 million miles an hour - like, several multiples faster - and they hit a target that is, generously, maybe five miles wide. By eyeballing it. And it’s not even one of the Force users who does it - it’s fucking _Han_. Yeah, but it IS Han. How far can any other pilot make the Kessel Run in? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/748 "2023-04-20T22:00:19Z")
It wasn’t just “he was out of his element in the junkyard town”. He didn’t seem to be the same character at all. Character development does not consist of losing one character and replacing them with a different character. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/749 "2023-04-20T22:12:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It wasn’t just “he was out of his element in the junkyard town”. He didn’t seem to be the same character at all. In what sense? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/750 "2023-04-20T22:17:13Z")
What you’re describing doesn’t sound like Andor to me. Sounds like a totally different character and totally different show. Maybe you ducked out for a bathroom break at the wrong time or something. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/751 "2023-04-20T22:23:31Z")
Well, there is that plot point in the second arc where he’s “under cover” and pretending to be Clem, one of Lucien’s long-time, dedicated agents, and not a guy he hired two days earlier after meeting him for the first time. If someone bailed on the show early in that plot arc, they might mistaken Andor playing cagey about his past and his motives as him being written differently. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/752 "2023-04-20T22:50:46Z")
Except that the motives that he’s lying about are different, too. The guy in the first three episodes, his primary motive was finding his lost sister, and money was just a means to that end. The guy in the second arc is pretending to be ideological to cover up his real motive of just wanting a bunch of money and not caring about anything else. Was that just a double-bluff? Why not just negotiate for help in finding his sister in the first place? Bonus, he wouldn’t even have had to lie to the heist team about that one. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/753 "2023-04-20T23:16:21Z")
Finding his sister stops being his primary motivation when he kills those two cops. After that, he’s primarily motivated by getting himself and his mom off-planet before the Imperials catch him, which requires a bit of money, which is what drives the action for the first two arcs. Getting the money was never about finding his sister. He was sitting on the piece of stolen Imperial tech for months before he tried to sell it, because he’d been saving it for just this sort of emergency. If he was looking for money to fund the search for his sister, he’d have sold that months before the start of the series. He doesn’t tell the other members of the heist about his real motivations, because he doesn’t trust them, or Lucien. Which is smart - we learn in a later episode that Lucien was planning on killing him after the heist was over, as a way of cleaning up loose ends. Andor knows how black ops work, and how little room there is for sentimentality. If he says, “I’ll help you if you help me find my sister,” he’s telling them right from the start that there’s something the Imperials can give him that’s more important to him than the success of the mission. That’s a security risk right there that they’d be fools to accept into their Rebel cell on those terms. Doubly so, since the people responsible for his missing sister isn’t even the Empire, but the Republic the rest of the cell are ideologically committed to restoring. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/754 "2023-04-20T23:49:52Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Andor knows how black ops work, and how little room there is for sentimentality. If he says, “I’ll help you if you help me find my sister,” he’s telling them right from the start that there’s something the Imperials can give him that’s more important to him than the success of the mission. So instead he says he wants money, because there’s no way the Imperials could possibly give him that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/755 "2023-04-20T23:55:12Z")
I think y’all are over analyzing. The team clearly didn’t trust “Clem”, but they had no choice. So they worked with him, because the alternative was failure. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/756 "2023-04-21T00:13:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > So instead he says he wants money, because there’s no way the Imperials could possibly give him that. No, he said he was there because he believed in The Cause. Later, one of the other guys figures out that he’s not a true believer, and he admits he’s just there for the cash. But by that time, he’s made it clear that his skills really are crucial to the success of the operation, and he’s able to over come their doubts. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/757 "2023-04-21T00:33:35Z")
He tells Lucian that he just cares about money. And he only works for Lucian after he has the payment from the box gizmo; why didn’t he get his mom offworld then? Or ask for Lucian to get her offworld as part of his down payment for the heist? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/758 "2023-04-21T00:35:14Z")
Watch the rest of the show and you’ll find the answers to those questions. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/759 "2023-04-21T03:57:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Or ask for Lucian to get her offworld as part of his down payment for the heist? “Oh, you’ve got a mother you care for? Okay, new deal. You do my job for free, and I don’t have your mother killed.” ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/760 "2023-04-21T05:03:08Z")
If you haven’t, do watch **all** of Andor, and the Mandalorian, and Rogue One. . > [@Pleonast](#): > > I’m sorry you feel that way, but for me, this is a golden era for Star Wars. I’ve enjoyed everything produced since Disney took over. I like the diversity of storytelling styles. The new characters are interesting. I don’t have to wait years before something new is released, and I can conveniently watch all of it. And then rewatch it again. Damn, someone said what I was feeling. I still remember standing in a line that stretched around the block on opening day 1977, for a movie that we knew nothing about (except that Tom Brokaw mentioned it was like “a cowboy movie in space”, and that sounded great). And ever since, I’ve loved that universe. And the more movies and series the better. Even those that are problematic/full of plot holes have wonderful moments (like the beginning of VIII, with Poe “unable to hear” as he ends up sliding around on the surface of a star destroyer). Maybe it’s that whole “suspension of disbelief” stuff. I could list every detail that’s wrong in every film/show, but so far, they’ve all been fun. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/761 "2023-04-21T06:21:23Z")
sorry, I won’t watch rogue one becuase it pretty much negates my favorite Star Wars game series … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809.md?page=39)