# Star Wars VII, VIII, IX possibly to be retconned away {Warning Spoilers for other Star Wars movies} **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [June 30, 2020, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809 "2020-06-30T16:38:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/762 "2023-04-21T06:38:10Z")
_Dark Forces_, and stealing the Death Star plans? I hate to break it to you, but even before Disney bought the franchise and binned all the EU stuff, there were already over a dozen competing stories explaining how the Rebels stole the Death Star plans. Kyle wasn’t the first, or last, Rebel to get credit for that. The old canon resolution for this was that everyone was stealing parts of the plan, which they compiled and transmitted to Leia’s ship. It’s not official any more, but no reason that can’t be your head canon for _Dark Force_ and _Rogue One_ coexisting. Should at least be excuse enough to see the best Star Wars movie since _Empire_. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/763 "2023-04-21T06:52:07Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > No, he said he was there because he believed in The Cause. Later, one of the other guys figures out that he’s not a true believer, and he admits he’s just there for the cash. But by that time, he’s made it clear that his skills really are crucial to the success of the operation, and he’s able to over come their doubts. And of coure there is the overarching theme of the series (of which the heist is a crucial part) of how Andor is moving from self-motivated criminal to a believer in the Cause. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/764 "2023-04-21T10:37:09Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Maybe it’s that whole “suspension of disbelief” stuff. I could list every detail that’s wrong in every film/show, but so far, they’ve all been fun. This mirrors my feelings quite well. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/765 "2023-04-21T11:52:33Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Maybe it’s that whole “suspension of disbelief” stuff. I cannot suspend disbelief around major plot holes. Also, constantly being told things like “X is a great/brilliant leader” while seeing, over and over again, how utterly terrible/stupid X is as a leader. _Game of Thrones_ suffered from that a lot in its later seasons, particularly with Sansa Stark (ok, actually, Sansa was never shown to be really terrible, but people were constantly talking up how smart she was, and she kept on dong things that were indicative of at best middling intelligence). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/766 "2023-04-21T17:49:29Z")
It was Jon Snow that was the biggest example of that. “Military genius” my ass! Andor - liked. Madalorian - bored to tears. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2023, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/767 "2023-04-21T21:16:18Z")
Well, obviously nobody’s going to convince anyone else on this, but suffice to say that, after having spent, what, six hours on this series and finding the writing (to my taste) to be horribly inconsistent, I have no interest in watching further for the purported payoff. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2023, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/768 "2023-04-22T00:02:12Z")
Sorry, that’s not acceptable. The powers that be have decreed that you must like what we like. You’ll finish Andor and you’ll like it. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/769 "2023-04-24T02:01:37Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > JJ has a fundamental misunderstanding of Trek. I know this is going to sound super nerdy but this is a good example: there is no leading zero in the registry number of _any_ starship ever. That’s a good example? Because that seems like an unbelievably trivial nitpick. I’m not a hard-core Trekker by an stretch, but I’d consider myself a “moderate” fan… watched all the movies, all of TNG, most of DS9 and Voyager, a fair bit of the original series, read a bunch of books, etc. And if you’d given me a piece of paper and said “OK, start writing down things that JJ Abrams did that show a lack of respect/understanding for the source material”, I would never, ever, EVER have come up with that. The problems with the Abrams Star Trek movies are numerous… plot holes, ridiculous inventions that invalidate the entire universe, silly coincidences, too much punching, characters who aren’t really the characters they are supposed to be, etc. But “chose not to respect an incredibly trivial bit of minutiae about starfleet markings” is not one of them. I mean, you could argue that it is part of a pattern of disrespect… a canary in the coal mine that emblemizes the larger ways in which he played fast and loose with Trek. But, honestly… that’s like saying that Peter Jackson has a fundamental misunderstanding of Lord of the Rings because Aragorn is described as bearded but the character in the movie didn’t have a beard. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/770 "2023-04-24T02:05:16Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Aragorn is described as bearded but the character in the movie didn’t have a beard. …he didn’t!? You’ve just blown my mind. ETA: Except he totally DID have a beard. Just not much of one. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/771 "2023-04-24T02:06:45Z")
I may be totally off base here… I’ve seen a lot of people pointing out that Aragorn’s beard in the movie is clearly not how it is described in the book, although doing so in an entirely different context, so I was just repeating that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/772 "2023-04-24T02:15:04Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > The problems with the Abrams Star Trek movies are numerous… plot holes, ridiculous inventions that invalidate the entire universe, silly coincidences, too much punching, characters who aren’t really the characters they are supposed to be, etc. Don’t forget the product placement! The 23rd century may be a post-scarcity society where money does not exist, there’s no such thing as poverty or hunger because any product can be materialized out of thin air on demand, and everyone is free to pursue their true calling in life rather than worry about paying the bills, but they’ve still got Budweiser and Corvettes and Nokia phones and Jameson Irish Whiskey. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/773 "2023-04-24T02:15:58Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Don’t forget the product placement! Thanks for reminding me about the product placement… which I had blissfully forgotten! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/774 "2023-04-24T02:22:39Z")
And Beastie Boys. Because nothing screams “rebellious youth” like listening to three hundred year old pop music. Well, now that I think of it, I suppose that worked for Alex and the Droogs. Still a weird vibe for a Star Trek movie. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/775 "2023-04-24T02:26:58Z")
Plus, it was classical music. It can’t all be Shakespeare and _Moby Dick_. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/776 "2023-04-24T02:28:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > they’ve still got Budweiser and Corvettes and Nokia phones and Jameson Irish Whiskey. Not to mention barcode scanners. > **[Price Check on the Bridge: Barcode Scanners Hidden in the new Star Trek -...](https://www.barcodesinc.com/news/price-check-on-the-bridge-barcode-scanners-hidden-in-the-new-star-trek/)** > > Barcode scanners from BarcodesInc feature prominently in the USS Enterprise bridge in the latest Star Trek movie If you pick up a copy of Star Trek on DVD next Tuesday be sure to hit pause a few times during scenes set in the bridge. Chances are, you... It could have been worse. CueCat phaser? ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/777 "2023-04-24T02:35:56Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Not to mention barcode scanners. Well, at least that can be seen as a continuation of the old TOS tradition of using European salt shakers as medical devices. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2023, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/778 "2023-04-24T02:37:46Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Plus, it was classical music. It can’t all be Shakespeare and _Moby Dick_. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/C52MXbkhepQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Fry's classical music") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C52MXbkhepQ) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/779 "2024-05-03T18:01:02Z")
Bumped. This may also be of interest: [As ‘The Phantom Menace’ turns 25, six (non-Jar Jar) things the ‘Star Wars’ prequel got right](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/03/entertainment/star-wars-phantom-menace-turns-25/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2024, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/780 "2024-05-03T19:22:46Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > As ‘The Phantom Menace’ turns 25, six (non-Jar Jar) things the ‘Star Wars’ prequel got right Not sure I agree about Mace Windu - I’m not sure his impact is as big as all of that. Though granted I’m less immersed in the Star Wars universe than many (I’m a pretty mid-tier fan relative to some). Otherwise those are all reasonable points. The various attempts to rehabilitate the prequels is still a little overblown IMHO - they’re still not great or even solidly good films. More chaff than wheat at the end of the day. But there is no denying they had their good points. I don’t hate any of them. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809/781 "2024-05-04T01:36:25Z")
I don’t think I would say that Mace Windo was essential or anything, but Jackson did do a good job with him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-vii-viii-ix-possibly-to-be-retconned-away-warning-spoilers-for-other-star-wars-movies/913809.md?page=40)