# Star Wars was cribbed from The Wizard of Oz? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022 "2013-05-10T20:09:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/1 "2013-05-10T20:09:58Z")
So in this old (ongoing) thread about obvious things about a creative work, [Larry Mudd](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11397058&postcount=149) made the audacious comment: > [@](#): > > How heavily _Star Wars_ was cribbed from _The Wizard of Oz_. > > Eventually, I noticed that the “knock over the guards, take their uniforms, and march into the prison” gag was played almost identically… and then all of the other parallels became obvious. :smack: Um, what? I’m trying to think about it, but I’m not seeing the “obvious” parallels. I mean, is Luke supposed to be Dorothy, because he’s the young naive kid from the farm sent on a quest? But he wasn’t wrapped up by a tornado. I suppose C3-PO would be the Tin Man, and R2 likely to be Toto, right? Does that make Han the Scarecrow, and Chewy the Cowardly Lion? But Chewy isn’t really cowardly or all bluff and stuff. And what role is Obi-wan? I just don’t see huge parallels, other than common story motifs of a quest, a young adventurer, a gang to accomplish the goal, etc. Sure, they use the same ploy about knocking out the guards to take their uniforms, but that’s a common trope for many an adventure to get behind enemy lines, it’s hardly definitive to both of these stories. What am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/2 "2013-05-10T20:15:13Z")
George Lucas has been very open about that movies he ripped off/borrowed from/was inspired by in making Star Wars. I’ve never seen Wizard of Oz listed as one of those. They’re not very similar, and the thing about taking the guards’ uniform was probably already a cliche by the time Wizard of Oz did it. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/3 "2013-05-10T20:16:20Z")
You’re missing that Larry Mudd is way off the mark. (I believe Star Wars was actually cribbed from a Japanese film called _The Hidden Fortress_ ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/4 "2013-05-10T20:16:53Z")
I think that probably what’s missing is Larry Mudd realizing that Star Wars copied from [The Hidden Fortress](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8r0LhpMzk)\*, which may have cribbed from TWoO. \*Lucas has also admitted that The Hidden Fortress heavily influenced Episode IV. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/5 "2013-05-10T23:33:08Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > You’re missing that Larry Mudd is way off the mark. > > (I believe Star Wars was actually cribbed from a Japanese film called _The Hidden Fortress_ When this comes up I always like to ask people “Have you SEEN Hidden Fortress?” The two stories have some real basic similarities but not a ton. I can see that to Lucas it was an inspiration but it is pretty broad. I’d say Wizard of Oz is actually more similar in terms of plot, but I have no idea if that was conscious or not. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/6 "2013-05-10T23:38:40Z")
Orphan leaves home and gets caught up in a wider conflict in a strange, new place? Becomes a Hero? Let’s Face it, there’s got to be a Thousand of those stories. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/7 "2013-05-10T23:41:00Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > (I believe Star Wars was actually cribbed from a Japanese film called _The Hidden Fortress_ I would handily recommend _The Hidden Fortress_ to anyone who is a fan of Star Wars. You cannot watch that movie without sensing the similarities. There are technical things such as the wipes and the way certain shots are framed, but also the way the story is constructed and the roles of the characters within that story. Very little (in Star Wars) is taken directly/exactly, but the way it all fits together is reminiscent of the early film. It is a nicely done homage. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/8 "2013-05-10T23:42:26Z")
I always thought the end of The Wizard of Oz was great. You know, the part where Dorothy blows up the Deathstar. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/9 "2013-05-10T23:45:44Z")
Allow me to introduce you to [The Hero’s Journey](http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/10 "2013-05-10T23:48:53Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > When this comes up I always like to ask people “Have you SEEN Hidden Fortress?” The two stories have some real basic similarities but not a ton. I can see that to Lucas it was an inspiration but it is pretty broad The Hidden Fortress and Star Wars episode IV share many similarities in plot and imagery. [The similarities start at the very first scene](http://www.tcm.com/this-month/article/290047%7C0/The-Hidden-Fortress.html): > [@](#): > > In the opening scene of The Hidden Fortress, two farmers emerge from the bottom of the screen walking toward the horizon as the camera (and the viewer), tracks behind them. The position of the camera forces the viewer to become a part of their journey, which will likely be a long and difficult one, judging by the vast rocky terrain that lies ahead of us. From this opening shot, Kurosawa has established that moving forward, or traveling onward, will be a dominant idea in the film. As the farmers stumble along bickering, the frame is suddenly filled with movement when a desperate samurai steps in front of them pursued by a group of soldiers on horseback. Also, [this youtube](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4g8r0LhpMzk)link provides some good examples, but some are better if you know the context of the scene. Some might be exaggerations. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/11 "2013-05-10T23:54:57Z")
Lucas took inspiration for plot, theme, and imagery from so many places the list could make up an entire [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_sources_and_analogues). Oh, btw, _The Wizard of Oz_ is not listed. The disguised heroes sneaking into the enemy’s fortress is borrowed from Flash Gordon. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/12 "2013-05-11T00:02:35Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Orphan leaves home and gets caught up in a wider conflict in a strange, new place? Becomes a **Hero**? Let’s \*\*Face \*\*it, there’s got to be a \*\*Thousand \*\*of those stories. (bolding mine) [I see what you did there.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hero_with_a_Thousand_Faces) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/13 "2013-05-11T00:23:03Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > I would handily recommend _The Hidden Fortress_ to anyone who is a fan of Star Wars. You cannot watch that movie without sensing the similarities. There are technical things such as the wipes and the way certain shots are framed, but also the way the story is constructed and the roles of the characters within that story. Very little (in Star Wars) is taken directly/exactly, but the way it all fits together is reminiscent of the early film. It is a nicely done homage. The main difference is that Lucas split the character of Yuki into the two characters of Luke and Leia. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/14 "2013-05-11T00:36:37Z")
“Knock over the guards, take their uniforms, and march into the prison” gag was also used in [Blazing Saddles](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=493pL_Vbtnc) but I don’t notice anyone claiming George Lucas stole from Mel Brooks. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/15 "2013-05-11T00:49:27Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > I would handily recommend _The Hidden Fortress_ to anyone who is a fan of Star Wars. You cannot watch that movie without sensing the similarities. There are technical things such as the wipes and the way certain shots are framed, but also the way the story is constructed and the roles of the characters within that story. Very little (in Star Wars) is taken directly/exactly, but the way it all fits together is reminiscent of the early film. It is a nicely done homage. The peasants are clearly the models for the robots, and Lucas has said that the robots are really the point of view characters for the story, like the peasants are. But the DVD I saw of The Hidden Fortress had an extra with Lucas saying the movie was great, but that he didn’t steal quite as much from it as people think. (Not those exact words.) Definitely worth watching, though. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/16 "2013-05-11T01:10:51Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > “Knock over the guards, take their uniforms, and march into the prison” gag was also used in [Blazing Saddles](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=493pL_Vbtnc) but I don’t notice anyone claiming George Lucas stole from Mel Brooks. Just the fart jokes. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/17 "2013-05-11T01:15:12Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > The peasants are clearly the models for the robots, and Lucas has said that the robots are really the point of view characters for the story, like the peasants are. That is all I knew of the film before I watched it. I assumed that the robot characters were all he cribbed from the work, but I was mistaken. > [@Voyager](#): > > But the DVD I saw of The Hidden Fortress had an extra with Lucas saying the movie was great, but that he didn’t steal quite as much from it as people think. (Not those exact words.) It does not really matter what Lucas thinks or wants to admit. See the film. While I would agree that he does not really “steal” much, there are definitely story structure and visual style similarities. Lucas was _influenced_ by the film, he did not copy it. ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/18 "2013-05-11T01:51:55Z")
> [@JKilez](#): > > … > > It does not really matter what Lucas thinks or wants to admit. > > … True. He has changed his story so many times you get dizzy trying to keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/19 "2013-05-11T02:45:03Z")
I’ve read that it’s basically a classic epic coming of age adventure story. Spartan parents probably told similar stories to their children as bedtime stories. When I saw it for the first time when it came out, it struck me as a Western set in space. You’ve got the kid, the old wise mystical Indian, the brash gunslinger, the gunslinger’s partner, the imperiled rancher’s daughter, and the 2 comic relief sidekicks. Oh, and the chief bad guy wears black. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/20 "2013-05-11T04:33:05Z")
_Star Wars_ steals from everything. Here’s a review I wrote (in about 1999) of the (original) _Star Wars_ trilogy: Let me tell you a story: There was once an orphan who had grown up on an isolated farm with a childless aunt and uncle. When separated from them, the orphan went on a quest with several other characters, one a metal man and another a large furry creature. They were advised by a wise old man to defeat a certain villain, but instead they were captured. Armed with a powerful item they had acquired, the orphan freed the others and killed the villain. Though they were all rewarded for their heroism, the orphan had acquired no riches, no kingdom to rule, and no romantic partner. Perhaps you recognize what I have done. I’ve simultaneously told you the stories of the _Star Wars_ movies and _The Wizard of Oz_. These resemblances aren’t coincidental. There’s a pattern here – the classic quest tale – and you can find it in other versions as well. Consider the following story: Our hero, who had grown up as an orphan hearing about great adventures of old, found himself going on a quest with several others in which they had to destroy a powerful object and kill a villain. A wise old man who aided them sacrificed himself for them, but he returned later to give them advice. The hero lost an appendage in a battle with the villain and learned that the almost magical powers that he had acquired could be misused. Although all the central characters were rewarded, the hero has no family to return to and no romantic partner. Here I’ve simultaneously told the stories of the _Star Wars_ films and _The Lord of the Rings_. These films also have many resemblances with other versions of the quest tale, including the King Arthur legend and the Prydain books by Lloyd Alexander. Thinking of the _Star Wars_ trilogy in this way has made me realize that things in them that struck me as odd at first are just parts of the archetype. Luke Skywalker had to have grown up as an orphan, and it had to be Han Solo, and not Luke, who wins the love of Princess Leia. Archetypal quest stories don’t get much respect from literary critics or from film critics. There was quite an uproar in Great Britain earlier this year when a survey showed that the top choice among readers for the greatest book of the century was _The Lord of the Rings_. The _Star Wars_ movies are an even more stripped-down archetypal quest than _The Lord of the Rings_. There’s certainly no brilliant acting in these films. Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher are only workmanlike actors. Even Harrison Ford isn’t really a great actor. There’s no deep exploration of a character’s psyche and no agonizing over a tortuous moral choice. It’s not really even true that these films get by on their special effects, since today there’s no longer anything particularly striking about the look of these movies. They’re still a great story though. One of the commonest complaints about them is that they’re just fairy tales or simplistic battles between Good and Evil. But really it’s not a trivial choice when Obi-Wan Kenobi dies to save the others or when Luke has to kill his father, and far from being an obvious fight between Good and Evil, I find myself confused by the muddled distinction between using the force for good means and being seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. George Lucas has thrown other things into the trilogy that I don’t find nearly as interesting. The main one is the references to World War II films. Consider the visual design of the Millennium Falcon. In its clunkiness, it doesn’t look like 1990’s technology or even 1970’s. It looks like something out of the 1940’s. Those space battles using a gun turret only make sense in World War II technology. The way the fighters fly is stolen from old aircraft combat, and the scene where the fighters dive-bomb the Death Star is modeled after a World War II film called _The Dam Busters_. More specifically, the _Star Wars_ movies seem like a Howard Hawks film about World War II. They have many of the themes that director Hawks liked to work into his war and Western films. There’s a diverse group of men who want to prove themselves in action, and there’s one equally brave woman with two of those men contending for her. There’s also a conflict between a younger man and a father-figure in which the young man must prove himself against the older. In addition, there are many other old movies referred to – _The Hidden Fortress_, _The Searchers_, _The Triumph of the Will_ – but this makes Lucas sound like Quentin Tarantino, as though Lucas were just an obsessive film nut who could throw in homages to all his favorite movies. At times there are almost too many elements in this mix, but most of the time Lucas has assimilated all his sources into one great story. I hope you have a chance to see these films in their current re-release. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022.md?page=2)