# Star Wars was cribbed from The Wizard of Oz? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 10, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022 "2013-05-10T20:09:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/41 "2013-05-15T22:04:16Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > You’re missing that Larry Mudd is way off the mark. > > (I believe Star Wars was actually cribbed from a Japanese film called _The Hidden Fortress_ Oh, hai - didn’t know this was going on, - I’ll just quote myself from [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12655204&postcount=38) for some clarification. > [@](#): > > Lucas has never been shy about acknowledging the sources for the plot and archetypal characters of Star Wars, and the three primary sources for his pastiche are Kurosawa’s _The Hidden Fortress, The Wizard of Oz_, and _Dambusters_. To make it easier to see which bits of _Star Wars_ are modelled on _Star Wars_, consider that Luke _and_ Leia take the “Dorothy” role. At first, Tattooine is Kansas, and [Luke](http://whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Binary-Sunset-e1311673927982.jpg) is [Dorothy](http://mthollywoodartschool.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/kansas.png) - a wistful orphan who spends his days on the arid, colourless farm of his stolid, plain folk aunt and uncle dreaming of far-off adventure. At the beginning of the action, he is led off the homestead to follow a small runaway creature. Not far from the homestead, he meets a mystic old man, and after a brief exposition, he resolves to return home to his Aunt and Uncle, who need him - however, he immediately finds that he is prevented from returning to the comfort of home by a ruinous catastrophe, and is swept up into the far-off adventure that he had dreamed of. Later, Leia stands in for Dorothy, as the helpless heroine that needs to be rescued from the fortress of black-robed villain holding her in a cell awaiting execution. As noted upthread, the rescue is effected by our heroes wearing comically ill-fitting uniforms acquired from the guards in an off-screen scuffle. If you cry foul that we have two distinct _Star Wars_ characters standing in for Dorothy, consider that early drafts had Anakin Starkiller needing rescue from the Death Star - the princess came in a later revision. To be clear, Lucas “cribbing from” the Wizard of Oz doesn’t mean there’s a 1:1 isomorphic relationship between the two films, just that _The Wizard of Oz_ is one of several elements of the pastiche. There are also references that are just references for the sake of references, such as C3P0 quoting the Wicked Witch of the West’s death throes (“I’m melting, this is your fault!”) after the dogfight with the TIE fighters, or Darth Vader’s puzzled prodding of Obi-Wan’s empty Jedi robe, which references the same scene. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/42 "2013-05-15T22:12:04Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > There are also references that are just references for the sake of references, such as C3P0 quoting the Wicked Witch of the West’s death throes (“I’m melting, this is your fault!”) It’s not much of a quote. > [@C3PO](#): > > Help! I think I’m melting! This is all your fault! > [@Wicked Witch of the West](#): > > You cursed brat! Look what you’ve done! I’m melting! melting! Oh, what a world! What a world! Who would have thought a good little girl like you could destroy my beautiful wickedness? Oooooh, look out! I’m going! Oooooh! Ooooooh! ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/43 "2013-05-15T22:14:35Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > George Lucas is a big fan of _The Wizard of Oz_. It’s very hard to believe that he didn’t consciously model some elements of _Star Wars_ on it. Of course he modeled other parts of it on other things. As I said, Lucas deliberately stole from everything he could get his hands on. Remember, he had to take enough of the basic mythic structure from all the things he imitated that anybody with an eye for how story elements worked could see what he was doing, but he had to avoid taking so much of them that he might be sued for plagiarism. Here are some of the many websites discussing the relationship between the two movies: > > [Yahoo Search - Web Search](http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071107145226AAELWMy) > > [Anthropological Realities: Readings in the Science of Culture - Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=ddQwYc_2RGoC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=similarities+between+star+wars+and+the+wizard+of+oz&source=bl&ots=LEXMWgvJdc&sig=MfQxL1Y0MoHk7Q8kuQ5viTTtxhk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Lo6RUcaxM_bF4APXtIDQBw&ved=0CE8Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=similarities%20between%20star%20wars%20and%20the%20wizard%20of%20oz&f=false) > > [http://ozwars.webs.com/](http://ozwars.webs.com/) > > [http://family.go.com/entertainment/article-584599-interview-george-lucas-t/](http://family.go.com/entertainment/article-584599-interview-george-lucas-t/) > > [Star Wars (film) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_IV:_A_New_Hope) > > The only way Larry Mudd was mistaken in the post you quote is that he didn’t mention all the other movies, books, legends, etc. that _Star Wars_ deliberately imitated. From my quick perusal, those are some seriously weak parallels in the stories. Like, really weak. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/44 "2013-05-15T22:19:56Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > If you cry foul that we have two distinct _Star Wars_ characters standing in for Dorothy, consider that early drafts had Anakin Starkiller needing rescue from the Death Star - the princess came in a later revision. If I was going to cry foul on that, I would argue further that the final draft is what counts because that’s what Star Wars actually is\*, not early drafts. \*ignoring Greedo shoots first, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/45 "2013-05-15T22:44:37Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > It’s not much of a quote. S’true. it’s paraphrase.: “Look what you’ve done! I’m melting!” / “I’m melting, this is your fault!” It stands out, though, because in C-3PO’s context it doesn’t make a lot of literal sense. He is clearly in no danger of melting, and it’s hardly Artoo’s fault. (It is perfectly characteristic of the sort of comic dialogue you find between parallel peasant characters in _The Hidden Fortress_, of course.) > [@CarnalK](#): > > If I was going to cry foul on that, I would argue further that the final draft is what counts because that’s what Star Wars actually is\*, not early drafts. I don’t think that makes a lot of sense, if we’re talking about inspirations. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/46 "2013-05-16T06:00:29Z")
[Quote=Larr mudd] I don’t think that makes a lot of sense, if we’re talking about inspirations. [/QUOTE] If you leave your inspiration on the editing room floor, I think it makes pretty obvious they didn’t inspired the end product. Even if you don’t agree that should make sense to you. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/47 "2013-05-16T15:57:32Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > Oh, hai - didn’t know this was going on, - I’ll just quote myself from [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12655204&postcount=38) for some clarification.To make it easier to see which bits of _Star Wars_ are modelled on _Star Wars_, consider that Luke _and_ Leia take the “Dorothy” role. Thank you for replying. That is the explanation I was looking for. > [@CarnalK](#): > > If you leave your inspiration on the editing room floor, I think it makes pretty obvious they didn’t inspired the end product. Even if you don’t agree that should make sense to you. I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss that Lucas was drawing on TWOO just because he changed something. I don’t think the argument was ever that Star Wars is exactly the same plot. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/48 "2013-05-16T16:34:39Z")
> [@Larry\_Mudd](#): > > S’true. it’s paraphrase.: “Look what you’ve done! I’m melting!” / “I’m melting, this is your fault!” It stands out, though, because in C-3PO’s context it doesn’t make a lot of literal sense. He is clearly in no danger of melting, and it’s hardly Artoo’s fault. It’s two quotes that both use the words “I’m melting.” The more you look at the resemblance, the less resemblance there is. “Look what you’ve done” and “This is your fault” don’t even mean the same thing; if the Witch had said “this is your fault,” we’d remember it as a really moronic line. If it’s an homage, it’s weak and kind of bizarre. And it’s R2D2’s fault because he thinks everything about their involvement in the story is R2D2’s fault. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/49 "2013-05-16T16:47:47Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss that Lucas was drawing on TWOO just because he changed something. I don’t think the argument was ever that Star Wars is exactly the same plot. They have the barest of similarities though. Did you read those links above? One of them tries to show a parallel between brave smuggler Chewbacca and the Cowardly Lion; the wise old teacher Obi wan with end of the quest fraudulent Wizard. Seriously, wtf? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/50 "2013-05-16T16:48:57Z")
Wouldn’t Obi Wan and Glinda be a better comparison? That’s not exactly a one-to-one correspondence either, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/51 "2013-05-16T17:12:35Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > They have the barest of similarities though. Did you read those links above? Yes, a lot of those were very bad stretches. I was pretty dismissive of the idea until **Larry Mudd** ’s posts. He makes a reasonable case for elements of inspiration/homage. Though the “I’m melting” one seems thin. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/52 "2013-05-16T17:38:18Z")
For anyone who has seen **The Guns of Navarone** , the “take out guards and wear their uniforms” happens at least three times in the film, and there are significant parallels (including the tense sequence where the magazine elevator going up and down but not quite actuating the boobytrap while the guns fire on the British task group parallel to Grand Moff Tarkin being told about the vulnerability in the thermal port while nearing Yavin) between those two films as well. “Let’s blow this thing and go home” is direct from _The Dam Busters_ and flying out of the sun to take out an opponent is from _Twelve O’Clock High_. Parallels between _The Wizard of Oz_ and _Star Wars_ are pretty weak and coincidential except that both generally have an adventure treasure hunt plot and flying monkeys/stormtroopers led by a deformed evil leader with magical powers opposed by a pathological liar (Professor Marvel and Obi Wan Kenobi, respectively.) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/53 "2013-05-16T20:35:31Z")
This thread is the first time I’ve ever heard about an Oz connection, and I was obsessed about _Star Wars_ since I first saw it as a sixteen year-old on its release. I think the theory is the bunk. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/54 "2013-05-16T20:39:43Z")
They share a common ancestry, there will be parallels. I spelled a few out myself in this thread. I could do the same thing connecting _Almost Famous_ to _Star Wars_ if I wanted. Any evidence that Oz inspired Lucas specifically is spurrious at best. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/55 "2013-05-16T20:59:11Z")
No mention yet of the borrowings from Jack Kirby’s [Fourth World](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_World_(comics)) comics. You’ve got a good guy who turns out to be the son of the main villain; that villain’s name happens to be pronounced Dark Side; you’ve got your good guys drawing strength from [del]The Force[/del] “The Source”; you’ve got a character whose name is suspiciously similar to Luke Skywalker (“Mark Moonrider”)… ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/56 "2013-05-16T22:15:17Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > “The Wizard of Oz” and “Ringworld” But was Louie Wu the Scarecrow (wirehead business) or Toto? I am inclined to think the latter, the Scarecrow was the Seeker dude, who was not all that bright. And, of course, the irony you encounter when you read _Engineers_ is thatDorothy is the Man Behind the Curtain ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/57 "2013-05-17T01:43:08Z")
garygnu writes: \> I could do the same thing connecting Almost Famous to Star Wars if I wanted. Go ahead. Do it. Let’s see what the comparisons are in that case. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/58 "2013-05-17T16:01:35Z")
I figured somebody would call me on this about ten seconds after I posted it. Spoilered for those who haven’t seen _Almost Famous_: Luke Skywalker = William Miller Obviously William in _Almost Famous_ is the hero character. Like Luke he is young and naive, but is talented and wants to break from his existing home life. William’s father isn’t around, thus making him a ‘partial’ orphan in this context. He enters another world, full of strange characters and otherworldly conflict. He eventually achieves his goal, getting published in Rolling Stone magazine, but not before seemingly being defeated, but saved at the last minute by his own Han Solo friend. Speaking of friends: Obi-wan Kenobi = Lester Bangs (Phillip Seymour Hoffman) While the personalities are vastly different, they’re both the mentor. Leia = Penny Lane (Kate Hudson) The order is reversed, Leia is rescued then becomes a guide; Penny is William’s initial guide to the rock world, and needs William to rescue her later when she OD’s on drugs. Leia also shares some aspects with William’s older sister played by Zooey Deschanel. Han = Russell (Billy Crudup) Charismatic yet aloof, The band Stillwater’s lead guitarist Russell initially treats William like Han does Luke, like a green outsider. After sharing some adventures together, though, they become friends. Like Han, Russell abandons the hero at the movie’s climax, but “saves” William by belatedly confirming the truth about the article William wrote. Chewbacca = Jeff (Jason Lee) Stillwater’s lead singer bickers with Billy, but they stick with each other. OK, this is where the comparisons start getting thin. Darth Vader = Ben Fong-Torres (Terry Chen) The real villains in _Almost Famous_ are circumstance, interpersonal conflict, and drugs. But William does have the challenge of writing a story for a stern and skeptical Ben Fong-Torres of Rolling Stone magazine. He rejects two versions of William’s story before Russell intervenes. Fong-Torres and Lester Bangs even have an old feud themselves, like Vader and Obi-wan. Is that good enough? The plot of _Almost Famous_ is deliberately structured as a classic hero’s journey, with a call to adventure, meeting the mentor, crossing the threshold, resurrection, return with the elixir, and the rest. It will share parallels with any other monomyth movie. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/59 "2013-05-24T04:23:37Z")
Oh, one more thing. The groupies in _Almost Famous_ wear white, and threaten to keep our hero from his goal, although in a different way than the white-clad Stormtroopers of _Star Wars_. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022/60 "2013-05-24T06:51:01Z")
I think episode borrows even more directly from The Hidden Fortress. The princess, in disguise, being moved around by a lone warrior. Pretty much the plot of hidden fortress except Qui Jon looses his fight. The spear duel in The Hidden Fortress is the most bad ass thing in movies ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars-was-cribbed-from-the-wizard-of-oz/658022.md?page=4)