# Star Wars **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 3, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294 "2007-07-03T00:12:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/41 "2007-07-03T12:26:42Z")
Ding ding, for you, maybe. Your opinion seems to be in the minority of both fanboys and casual Star Wars fans, but hey, it’s your opinion. I’m not a fanboy or a “masturbatory sci-fi geek” (you seem to be implying that anyone who prefers the original trilogy is one of those), and I think the new movies are trash. I can’t for the life of me understand your apparent view that it’s impossible for someone to simply dislike the new movies of their own accord and that any criticism of them is inherently “parroting.” I just prefer movies that aren’t slick and overproduced-looking and have some gritty soul to them. The new trilogy suffered from the lack of a Han Solo rogue-type character who had an edge to him. All the heroes were soulless and vapid. The environments looked fake - the original movies were filmed in actual locations, and even if it looks low-budget, at least it looks real. The aliens looked more real to me in the original movies too, since they were portrayed by either real people in actual physical costumes that were painstakingly and meticulously designed, or well-crafted puppets. There, I criticized the new movies, and I’m not a fanboy. And I came to this conclusion on my own, not “parroting” anybody. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/42 "2007-07-03T12:38:00Z")
[QUOTE=anyrose] But most of us figured that out after the exchange between Yoda and Obi-Wan in ESB eta: paraphrasing Ben: That boy is our last hope Yoda: No, there is another [/QUOTE] In addition to **Tuckerfan’s** assertion that Ben’s statement made no sense, [spoiler]Obi Wan Kenobi held BOTH babies. He was there when they were born! Did he just forget? Of course that is assuming that Lucas took any thought into making the pre-triology. But, my favorite original trilolgy/pre-trilogoy moment was when Ben Kenobi handed Luke the lightsaber and said “You’re father wanted you to have this.” He should have said, “I chopped off your father’s arms and legs, left him for dead while he was burning in lava and took this from him. Here, you take it”. [/spoiler] **Hoops** , that link was brilliant. I too hate Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/43 "2007-07-03T14:38:21Z")
[QUOTE=Orual] It is possible that you will NOT in fact find the prequel trilogy to be of markedly lower quality than the originals, since you are not seeing the originals at a very young age and spending 20 years building them up to mythic, unapproachable status in your mind. [/QUOTE] Agreed. I like both trilogies just fine. Ignore all the fanboys in here who love Star Wars so much that they hate it. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Some\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ad7895/32.png) [@Just\_Some\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Some_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/44 "2007-07-03T14:52:48Z")
[QUOTE=Frylock] Woa, I didn’t know they re-released the originals! Needs to gets me some of that. [/QUOTE] It’s a particularly half-assed DVD release. Just a sloppy laserdisk transfer; the kind that stopped being acceptable around 1998. No anamorphic transfer and no cleaned up video or audio. I’m not a fan of the movies (not even a Star Wars fan who hates Star Wars) so I couldn’t justify getting them in that condition, but for someone who’s never seen any of the movies and the choice is between a poorly produced DVD and a poorly produced reworking of the movie then there isn’t really an option. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/45 "2007-07-03T14:54:46Z")
I am going to second that the Clone Wars animated miniseries must be seen between II and III. 4, 5, 6 goes without saying. Frankly, either the rerelease or the originals will do. 1 must be next, and suffer through it. Or enjoy it. It’s up to you. Then 2, CW, 3. If at any point, you give up hope, read the Thrawn Trilogy and possibly play Knights of the Old Republic. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/46 "2007-07-03T14:58:59Z")
III, IV, V, VI. The films numbered I and II are completely disposable. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/47 "2007-07-03T15:38:34Z")
[QUOTE=Argent Towers] For the life of me I don’t get why so many people espouse this opinion that ROTJ was total trash and should just be ignored. Sure, the Ewoks sucked - but The final confrontation between Luke and the Emperor, and the unmasking of Vader and his dying reconciliation with his son (I have to save you!" - “You already have.”) is as good a culmination of the trilogy as I could have come up with. And shit, man, Leia in the metal bikini - how could you not like that? Especially compared to the horseshit that is the new prequels, I really don’t see how ROTJ is that bad. [/QUOTE] It pains me to say it, but not even a nekkid Leia could make up for the final betrayal at the end of ROTJ. The Ewoks were bad enough, but having Anakin join Yoda and Ben as “Force-Ghosts” betrays everything Lucas could have done. “I killed the Emperor after he turned his back on me and was going to sell me down the river.” does not Redemption make. This is the guy who wiped out the Jedi and blew up entire planets. If a last-second “Oops. My bad.” gets you into Lucas’ Heaven, then I’ll take his Hell, thank you very much. Although his Hell is probably Episodes I-III. ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/48 "2007-07-03T15:58:18Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] It pains me to say it, but not even a nekkid Leia could make up for the final betrayal at the end of ROTJ. The Ewoks were bad enough, but having Anakin join Yoda and Ben as “Force-Ghosts” betrays everything Lucas could have done. “I killed the Emperor after he turned his back on me and was going to sell me down the river.” does not Redemption make. This is the guy who wiped out the Jedi and blew up entire planets. If a last-second “Oops. My bad.” gets you into Lucas’ Heaven, then I’ll take his Hell, thank you very much. Although his Hell is probably Episodes I-III. [/QUOTE] you have a point, but I don’t think he turned on and killed Palpatine because of being kicked aside in favor of a younger version, I think he did it because seeing his son about to die sparked something in him - something Luke believed all along was there. If we factor in Anakin’s passion for Padme, and extrapolate the same for his offspring, it works [QUOTE=Frylock] Which part was that? [/QUOTE] the most glaring example of added scenes isthe interaction between Han and Jabba in the hangar. Jabba is significantly smaller and certainly less disgusting than in RotJ. Another is the flat planed “shock wave” after the explosion (of either Aldaaran or the Death Star, possibly both) - physics be damned) Also you’d think if he went thru all the trouble of “enhacing” those scenes - why couldn’t he make the image of the Death Star plans look more high-tech? They looked like they were generated by an original Mac 512K computer ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/49 "2007-07-03T16:05:41Z")
[QUOTE=anyrose] you have a point, but I don’t think he turned on and killed Palpatine because of being kicked aside in favor of a younger version, I think he did it because seeing his son about to die sparked something in him - something Luke believed all along was there. If we factor in Anakin’s passion for Padme, and extrapolate the same for his offspring, it works [/QUOTE] IMO that makes it even worse. “I’ll kill everybody else’s children without blinking an eye, but let Palpatine shock my snot-nosed brat and I’ll get medieval on his ass.” Nope. Doesn’t fly. The space battle was cool, though. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/50 "2007-07-03T18:40:12Z")
[QUOTE=Junior Spaceman] (And for what it’s worth, I love Eps II and III, which proves that I’m not a ‘Star Wars Fan’ - I could have done without Ep I, and some of the bad acting in the other two, but really - they’re not _that_ bad!) [/QUOTE] I’m even OK with Ep. I. Ep. VI is the weakest of the 6 in my opinion (V is the best). There’s good stuff in all of them. There are problems with all of them. The genius of Star Wars is in the universe Lucas created. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/51 "2007-07-03T18:55:18Z")
[QUOTE=aerodave] **kanicbird** , don’t listen to people who say Eps I, II, and III aren’t good. They are blinded by 20 years of fanboy-ism. And/or they’re parroting other people’s expectations of how they’re supposed to think about the series. [/QUOTE] Or - and I know I’m going _way_ out on a limb here - people might actually be able to hold a different opinion than you on an entirely subjective topic, that is formed by an honest evaluation of the merits of the work based on their own metrics for quality. Nah, that’s crazy. Clearly, your opinions about popular media are objectively correct, and anyone who disagrees with you is suffering from some sort of personality deficit. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/52 "2007-07-03T19:10:59Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Or - and I know I’m going _way_ out on a limb here - people might actually be able to hold a different opinion than you on an entirely subjective topic, that is formed by an honest evaluation of the merits of the work based on their own metrics for quality. Nah, that’s crazy. Clearly, your opinions about popular media are objectively correct, and anyone who disagrees with you is suffering from some sort of personality deficit. [/QUOTE] He could be on to something here. How many times have you heard, “Episode IV was okay. Empire was teh best evar!!!1 RotJ wasn’t as good, pretty much because of the Ewoks.” The same opinion all the way around. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/53 "2007-07-03T19:12:41Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] He could be on to something here. How many times have you heard, “Episode IV was okay. Empire was teh best evar!!!1 RotJ wasn’t as good, pretty much because of the Ewoks.” The same opinion all the way around. [/QUOTE] And the logic here is what? The more people who agree with a particular opinion, the less valid that opinion becomes? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/54 "2007-07-03T19:39:06Z")
Do try and watch the films on the biggest display you can manage. If at all possible, beg or borrow a projector. Many of the scenes lose something in the translation to a small screen. The most obvious example is the opening scene of A New Hope. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/55 "2007-07-03T19:48:44Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] And the logic here is what? The more people who agree with a particular opinion, the less valid that opinion becomes? [/QUOTE] Well, duh! How can you possibly hold an elitist attitude about something if everybody agrees with you? Get with the program! ---
**Author:** ![aerodave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f08c70/32.png) [@aerodave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aerodave)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/56 "2007-07-03T20:02:18Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Clearly, your opinions about popular media are objectively correct, and anyone who disagrees with you is suffering from some sort of personality deficit. [/QUOTE] And my opinion about any or all of the _Star Wars_ films is what, exactly? I don’t recall ever mentioning what I felt to be the case. I just advised the OP not to let himself be unduly influenced by a bunch of people who convinced themselves that Eps I-III had spoiled the saga without objectively removing the original films from the context of 20 years of worship. Because when you do that, you see just as many flaws in the original trilogy. If you don’t like any of the particular episodes, and you know that deep down it’s because they’re not as good for your subjective tastes, then good on ya. But if you only hate them because your other basement-living friends convinced you that’s the way to think, that’s sad. And for the record, I hate Ep II. But I’m not about to tell the OP to pretend it doesn’t exist. That’s just asinine. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/57 "2007-07-03T20:03:25Z")
[QUOTE=Lord Ashtar] Agreed. I like both trilogies just fine. Ignore all the fanboys in here who love Star Wars so much that they hate it. [/QUOTE] I’m neither a fan, nor a boy. I liked the first trilogy and thought the second one sucked. ---
**Author:** ![dotchan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@dotchan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dotchan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/58 "2007-07-03T20:08:56Z")
I was late to the whole SW pheonmenon too, having been roped into it by a rabid fan buddy who lent me his collection when Eps 4-6 were re-released in theater and boggled at me when I confessed to him that I’d never seen any of the movies from beginning to end, though I had heard a thing or three. Personally, I like _Empire_ the best (the bad guys totally have better mood music and fashion sense :D), followed wibbly by _New Hope_ and _Jedi_ (even as a straight female, I agree that Leia wearing that bikini is totally what makes that movie :D). The Prequels…well…I was trying to like them. Really. But for whatever reason I couldn’t forgive the bad dialogue and bad acting even though the original trilogy had its share of moments where you wish Lucas got hit in the head several times with a clue stick. Maybe it was the inattention to continuity, like Han not shooting first, or what’s-his-face displacing Sebastion Shaun as the ghost of Anakin, or how the prequels pretty much make Original Trilogy Obi-Wan a complete liar (yes, I know Sir Guiness was displeased about his role in becoming a cultural icon, but you could have been a mature adult and not pissed all over him the way you did). Maybe it was the accumulation of a ton of little annoying things. Maybe it was Jar Jar. (It didn’t help that I kept thinking in the back of my head, “Dude, I’ve read better fanfiction! Heck, I’ve probably even WRITTEN better fanfiction!”) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/59 "2007-07-03T20:50:32Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] And the logic here is what? The more people who agree with a particular opinion, the less valid that opinion becomes? [/QUOTE] I didn’t say or even imply that. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2007, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294/60 "2007-07-03T22:00:25Z")
[QUOTE=aerodave] And my opinion about any or all of the _Star Wars_ films is what, exactly? I don’t recall ever mentioning what I felt to be the case. [/quote] Well, when you issue blanket insults about everyone holding a particular opinion, it’s really not unreasonable to assume that you hold the opposite opinion. But, hey, maybe you hate the prequel movies too, and were talking about yourself when you spoke of blind fanboys who are incapable of forming their own opinions about things. > [@](#): > > I just advised the OP not to let himself be unduly influenced by a bunch of people who convinced themselves that Eps I-III had spoiled the saga without objectively removing the original films from the context of 20 years of worship. Because when you do that, you see just as many flaws in the original trilogy. > > If you don’t like any of the particular episodes, and you know that deep down it’s because they’re not as good for your subjective tastes, then good on ya. But if you only hate them because your other basement-living friends convinced you that’s the way to think, that’s sad. And here’s why what you just said is stupid: you used the word “objectively” to describe someone’s reaction to a piece of art. You aren’t looking at these films objectively. You are judging them by your own subjective internal criteria. The flaws you see in the first trilogy? Their existence is entirely a matter of _your opinion_. People who don’t see those flaws, or who don’t think the flaws rise to the level of the flaws in the prequel trilogies, aren’t blinded by nostalgia. They just have a different opinion than they do. This does not require them to be basement-dwelling losers who can only regurgitate what they’ve read on [MoviePoopChute.net](http://MoviePoopChute.net). It doesn’t make them less observent, or critically aware, or socially adapted then you are. It just means they have different tastes in movies than you do. And it is the hallmark of a petty man indeed that one would need to denigrate other people for disagreement over a fucking _movie._ That’s the saddest sort of fanboy of them all: the one who can’t differentiate between who he is, and what he likes, and takes any criticism of the latter as criticism of the former. > [@](#): > > And for the record, I hate Ep II. But I’m not about to tell the OP to pretend it doesn’t exist. That’s just asinine. How wonderfully special for you. > [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I didn’t say or even imply that. Well, then what did you say or imply in that post? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-wars/410294.md?page=2)