# Starbucks isn't worth it any more (and the company is getting \[already?\] evil) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** coffee\ **Created:** [June 3, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645 "2022-06-03T20:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/81 "2022-06-06T15:57:39Z")
I always conflate the name of the market with the peak. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/82 "2022-06-06T16:04:24Z")
It’s actually named after Captain Pike in recognition that in the future the replicator patterns of all beverages are licensed by the Costco Pepsi Starbucks Beam Suntory Consortium, and if you want to bitch about how your coffee tastes burnt or your Earl Grey tea is not suitably ‘hot’, you have to take it up with the United Federation of Planets which will press you into service in the “Starfleet” with all of the other malcontents, social rejects, and sex addicts. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/83 "2022-06-06T16:16:06Z")
How would that constitute anything other than a labyrinthine criminal Enterprise ? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/84 "2022-06-06T16:54:50Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Let me look up when that Pike’s Place roast was released. _Googles_. April 8, 2008, so it doesn’t _quite_ fit your timeline, but it’s close. Scroll up! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/85 "2022-06-06T16:57:31Z")
God dammit. Need to reboot myself today. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/86 "2022-06-06T17:26:31Z")
You just need some coffee! 😁 ---
**Author:** ![TwoCarrotSnowman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/twocarrotsnowman/32/15879_2.png) [@TwoCarrotSnowman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwoCarrotSnowman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/87 "2022-06-06T18:46:03Z")
Over here in the UK, Starbucks has a bad rep for aggressive tax avoidance, using tricks like funnelling profits overseas and charging themselves licensing fees for the use of the name. [Here’s one recentish article about it](https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2022/mar/30/starbucks-uk-corporation-tax-profit-administrative-expenses-royalties), which contains a link to another, nine-year-old article. It’s been going on a while. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/88 "2022-06-06T19:01:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > I’m just shocked it has taken people this long to realize that Starbucks sucks. I recognized that a couple of decades ago. > [@Aeschines](#): > > So to say that Starbucks always sucked just seems ahistorical to me. Yes, through the 1990s or so, all coffee in America sucked. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/89 "2022-06-06T19:11:31Z")
The best thing about Starbucks was their maple oat scone, but I haven’t seen one in ages. Their coffee’s fine. I like it black and dark, and most other non-pretentious coffee bar places have weak, insipid coffee. But it’s been years since I’ve been inside one. If they bring back that scone, I might go back. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/90 "2022-06-06T19:26:16Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Now some here are gonna say, “Starbucks coffee always sucked, so good riddance.” Damn. You predicted my post exactly.!!👏👏 My friend used to get Starbux before a road trip, so I tried one of their mochalattas or something. Gawd it was sweet. But kinda refreshing and woke me up. Then I checked the nutritional facts. If I had dissolved 10 teaspoons of sugar and two teaspoons of butter, that would be about the same. I later tried a simple Mocha. Weak sauce, especially compared to Petes. I think Starbuxs is for people who don’t really like coffee. > [@pulykamell](#): > > I think any “latte liberal” association they may have once had has long been shed. It’s more a general middle class thing now – in fact, in my circle, the Starbucks drinkers skew conservative, some aggressively so (cousins.) The more “liberal” types around here tend to be into local joints,… Yep. One thing that pissed off my wife is that Disneyland used to have a coffee place- with hot, very decent coffee at a reasonable price… and free refills. Replaced by a $#@! Starbux. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/91 "2022-06-06T20:18:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Let me look up when that Pike’s Place roast was released. _Googles_ . April 8, 2008, so it doesn’t _quite_ fit your timeline, but it’s close. It’s really not. Unless some locations made the switch a few years earlier, that can’t explain the improvement I noticed in 05/06. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/92 "2022-06-06T20:31:48Z")
I meant close as in if you muddled a memory. I’ve done that before (I could have sworn, for example, that I read Kitchen Confidential back in 1997 while I worked at the cafe I mentioned before, because I remember talking about it on shift with my friend John, the barista. Turns out it was published in 2000, when I had moved away and was living in Budapest. I cannot for the life of me reconcile this memory, but that’s somehow what I remember.) But, assuming your memory is correct, I did look up to see if there’s any chance there were earlier test markets, and all I could find is that the idea sprung up in 2007, so that wouldn’t have fit the timeline, either. It is certainly possible you just had a much fresher brew. (I will say though that plenty of people order regular coffee at Starbucks. At least as of a few years ago, it was their highest selling single item, though as a percentage of all their drinks, I’m not sure what percentage it was. I’m trying to find that analysis online, but can’t seem to find it anymore. I may have linked to it on the Dope previously.) ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/93 "2022-06-06T21:09:07Z")
I’m quite sure this incident occurred during a college class, and I’m quite sure I graduated in 2006. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/94 "2022-06-06T21:10:39Z")
Then, like I said, you probably did have a fresher brew like you surmised, as they would not have had the Pike Place coffee I suggested then. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/95 "2022-06-08T00:46:26Z")
I just finished reading a popular book about marketing, machine learning and AI. I wish I had ten dollars for every time the expression “supercharge the customer decision making process” was used. This book convinces me you are desperately mistaken. Starbucks is _the most_ impressive case of optimizing customer preferences into a seamless package to boost sales and send satisfaction into hyperdrive. I have no doubt experimentation yields benefits and there are slight benefits to knowing your customer and using data to recommend the largest pumpkin spiced granita. But there’s a lot of hype there for smaller companies - perhaps better off delivering value by making a distinguished product instead of marketing an exact substitute. Canadian company Timmy Hoho’s was recently called out for collecting location data every few minutes on all its customers who had installed an app. Though this is not necessarily legal, and definitely is not legal in several certain contexts, privacy commissioners cannot lay large fines in Canada at the present moment. Should you uptake your dislike of Starbucks by visiting alternate chains, just know you are missing out on email coupons saving you a dime and advance knowledge of exciting seasonal promotions. You want a chicken in every pot? How about a Starbucks on every corner. What does AI do to help shoddy franchise agreements? You would be happier installing the Starbucks app, which will improve the coffee offered or seem to. To provide valuable corporate feedback, I use the term Starbucks again. Starbucks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/96 "2022-06-08T01:07:37Z")
So Starbucks is less evil than some. And their Rewards™ program gives you freebies on your birthday, at no obvious cost. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/97 "2022-06-08T01:15:16Z")
It happened. The AI marketing program has consumed @Dr_Paprika. I knew this would happen one day, it is after all the ultimate in _viral_ advertising. I’m heading for the hills with my tinfoil hat, solar charged faraday cage with battery backup, and lifestraw to slowly starve to death due to insufficient preparation. You can all live with your CorporateAI masters! ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/98 "2022-06-08T01:21:07Z")
Bad plan. Those parts are poorly stocked with pumpkin granita. And AI knows you better than you do. Even if you dislike pumpkin spice. You just don’t know you like it as much as you do. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/99 "2022-06-08T01:51:23Z")
Consider Starbucks mission statement. “To inspire and nurture the human spirit - one person, one cup and one neighbourhood at a time”. Or, more telling, its stated value of being “ performance driven through the lens of humanity”. (Directly quoted from the book). Strong stuff. Howe could you possibly dislike it? Does your cafeteria use AI to allow coffee makers “more time to make strong connections with customers”? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/100 "2022-06-08T02:17:03Z")
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