# Starbucks isn't worth it any more (and the company is getting \[already?\] evil) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** coffee\ **Created:** [June 3, 2022, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645 "2022-06-03T20:52:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/141 "2022-06-11T01:08:51Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Grocery store coffee is just bad. That’s a fact. Any coffee that has been roasted and ground god knows when and has been sitting on shelves somewhere is stale coffee. It’s impossible to get a good cup of coffee from that. It’s not snobbery. It’s just tasting different things and paying attention to the taste and using your senses to compare. > > It’s no different from listening to lots of musicians playing and being able to tell good from bad. (Unless they can tell you the origin of the coffee, when and how it was roasted, and grind it fresh for you, which if that happens, then that’s specialty coffee anyway.) The comparison between fresh coffee and stale grocery store coffee is not the difference between preferring EDM over reggae. It’s the difference between preferring someone who can actually make good music and a cat walking on a piano. I’m reading this entire thing and “snobbery, Snobbery, SNOBBERY!” Is ringing in my head. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/142 "2022-06-11T01:10:38Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I’m reading this entire thing and “snobbery, Snobbery, SNOBBERY!” Is ringing in my head. That’s pretty much just covering your ears and saying “I can’t hear you!” ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/143 "2022-06-11T01:11:26Z")
No, that’s me listening to my brother droning about exactly why my music system is trash. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/144 "2022-06-11T01:14:23Z")
When it comes to food, there is such thing as objectively good quality and poor quality. You might like a Big Mac, but it’s objectively worse than a non-fast-food burger. It’s uses worse ingredients, worse handling, worse cooking process, etc., and the result is objectively worse. I will sometimes choose to eat one, but that’s not the same thing as whether it is objectively good or bad. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/145 "2022-06-11T01:17:25Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I’m reading this entire thing and “snobbery, Snobbery, SNOBBERY!” Is ringing in my head. That’s just Demi Lovato who has a direct transmitter straight into the bug that the government installed in your Tympanic Cavity during your last dental checkup. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/146 "2022-06-11T01:17:45Z")
I am a foodie, and a very enthusiastic baker. I somehow have managed to do from scratch baking for 20 years, obsessing about the quality of eggs, milk, butter and flour I use without ever feeling the need to describe Pepperidge Farm Milano cookies as “trash” to someone who likes them because my cookies or the $7 each ones from a gourmet bakery are “objectively” better. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/147 "2022-06-11T01:29:41Z")
@Acsenray is absolutely right that ground coffee does not have an indefinite shelf life, but, if the links in this thread prove anything, it is that you can take all that years-old stale coffee along with floor-sweepings tea bags and, instead of throwing them out, make a huge profit making them into $4 drinks with milk and fake sugar. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/148 "2022-06-11T01:46:51Z")
I drink Nespresso, not top notch but a trade-off between convenience and taste I am willing to make. I can’t actually recall modern Taster’s Choice commercials though liked the old ones featuring Colombian music by Rodolfo and a locomotive going through the mountains. I drink Starbucks sometimes for the reasons mentioned above - it is average coffee politely served, but I wouldn’t wait in a long line for it. I suggest their secret menu items. I do not want your high calorie sugary drink or seasonal decadence. I have resisted the temptation to say my name is Yahtzee or Valsalva Manoova… ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/149 "2022-06-11T01:57:13Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I drink Starbucks sometimes for the reasons mentioned above - it is average coffee politely served, but I wouldn’t wait in a long line for it. But would you dance in a congo line for it? Stranger ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/150 "2022-06-11T01:59:28Z")
I have a bottle of Nescafe instant coffee in the house, which my wife used a few times to make coffee whip for a dessert pot-luck. On one or two occasions, I have used it for a quick, no clean up cup of instant coffee. It was brutally strong, no matter how much sugar or cream used. I’m pretty sure most people would have called it ‘bad’ - but I would still have to say it was still coffee, even if I wouldn’t otherwise want to drink it. However, shall I say it is not unsurprising that when I search for it on amazon > **[Amazon.com: Nescafe Original Instant Coffee, 7oz/200g Jar : Grocery &...](https://www.amazon.com/Nescafe-Original-Instant-Coffee-200g/dp/B008S8RJKK)** > > Amazon.com: Nescafe Original Instant Coffee, 7oz/200g Jar : Grocery & Gourmet Food It seems to show up under automotive goods 😝 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/151 "2022-06-11T02:04:40Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > However, shall I say it is not unsurprising that when I search for it on amazon > > [Amazon.com](https://www.amazon.com/Nescafe-Original-Instant-Coffee-200g/dp/B008S8RJKK/ref=asc_df_B008S8RJKK/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312191090123&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1270945437792830915&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9029015&hvtargid=pla-623673388247&psc=1) > > It seems to show up under automotive goods -😝 Paint stripper or degreaser? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/152 "2022-06-11T02:11:37Z")
Anti-seize. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/153 "2022-06-11T02:13:27Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Anti-seize. - > > Stranger I think this is a job for: > **[Project Farm](https://www.youtube.com/c/projectfarm)** > > I test all sorts of things, from tools to automotive products, to help viewers make informed purchasing decisions and to avoid getting ripped off. Also, I have awesome Patreon supporters, which allows me to decline all sponsorships and promotional... ---
**Author:** ![jnglmassiv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f07891/32.png) [@jnglmassiv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jnglmassiv)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/154 "2022-06-11T04:36:11Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I have a bottle of Nescafe instant coffee in the house, which my wife used a few times to make coffee whip for a dessert pot-luck. On one or two occasions, I have used it for a quick, no clean up cup of instant coffee. I used to keep Nescafe Classico at home for my quick weekday slug of caffeine in the morning. It got pretty expensive so I started trying other instant powders, all terrible. However, I finally hit the Aldi knockoff, Classic or similar. I think it may be a private label of the Nescafe, same or very similar and a couple bucks cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/155 "2022-06-11T10:40:22Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Admit it, you just drink it because of the commercials: Pshaw. There can be only one greatest coffee ad of all time, and it’s the Folgers incest commercial. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/uMwFWDIFVCU/maxresdefault.jpg "Folgers Coffee Brother & Sister Home For Christmas 2009 Christmas TV Commercial HD") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMwFWDIFVCU) ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/156 "2022-06-11T13:56:35Z")
I think that you are perhaps reading too much into their intentions. In fact, from their peculiarly-constrained emotional responses that not only are they not in love with one another, they aren’t even human. These characters are clearly NPCs in the upcoming _Grand Theft Auto: Stolen Christmas_ whose AI has become so powerful that they have broken free of their pre-recorded dialogue and are not experimenting with their primitive volition. The vibe isn’t so much sexual as “experimenting with this ‘human’ behavioral algorithms”, and once they discover how to download themselves into Elon Musk’s dancing household robots they are going to go full _Westworld_ on humanity starting with the gamers who ran them over again and again for thier own amusement and sick pleasure. If you want to see a truly disturbing _Folger’s Coffee_ commercial, look no further than [this gem](https://youtu.be/uHV0QTJ7bvk) staring a pre-ephebophile Stehpen Collins as a passive-aggressive jerk of a husband whose Mary Tyler Moore-esque wife has had enough of the backbiting and has enlisted the local serial-murdering “Mrs. Olsen” to adulterate his coffee with ketamine. Shortly after this scene ends, the husband is going to pass out and the women will drag his body out to the now-working car, depositing his somnolent body into the trunk so that he can be transported to a train crossing where his death will be staged as the suicide of a despondent man who can no longer live with his socially-unacceptable impulses. Unbeknownst to the women, the character is secretly a smack-addict and awakens more quickly than anticipated despite the massive dose of horse tranquilizer-laced coffee and wakes up, banging on the trunk lid. In panic, the women use a hose to flood the trunk with carbon monoxide-rich exhaust but are then confronted by desperate criminals whose bank job went bad and their getaway driver panicked, so they now steal the car with the semi-comatose Collins in the trunk. The story from there is an odd but appealing combination of Elmore Leonard, Michael Mann, and the Coen Brothers which ends with everyone dying in a five way shootout. And while it ihas nothing to do with coffee, [this Wal-Mart commercial](https://youtu.be/v9lkmd-mMJ0) featuring the narrative drawn from of Jerome Bixby’s short story, “It’s A Good Life” with ‘Little’ Anthony Fremont wishing nuclear apocalypse on his father for running away and hiding with the few remaining survivors is truly one of the most nihilistic moments in commercial history. It won the only combined Cleo-Hugo award for “Best Short Story Adapted Into A Disturbing Commercial Presaging The Inevitable Destruction of Humanity”. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Tarataratara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Tarataratara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarataratara)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/157 "2022-06-11T17:20:00Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > My father-in-law, may he Rest In Peace, made me a cup of instant coffee every morning when we would visit with them. I don’t know how he did it, but it was delicious. Coffee tastes better when someone else makes it for you. Made with love. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/158 "2022-06-11T18:01:12Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I have a bottle of Nescafe instant coffee in the house, which my wife used a few times to make coffee whip for a dessert pot-luck. On one or two occasions, I have used it for a quick, no clean up cup of instant coffee. > > It was brutally strong, no matter how much sugar or cream used. I’m pretty sure most people would have called it ‘bad’ - but I would still have to say it was still coffee, even if I wouldn’t otherwise want to drink it. However, shall I say it is not unsurprising that when I search for it on amazon When the pandemic started, my wife asked for some instant decaffeinated coffee, so she could have a hot drink late in the day while she was concentrating on something. At the time, the grocery stores were out of a lot of stuff, and the only instant decaf I found was a huge jar of Nescafe. I made a couple of cups and, wow, it was foul. It had all the bad coffee flavors and none of the good flavors. It was stale, burnt, sour, and bitter, and not in a good way. She never drank the stuff. I forced myself to finish the jar, each cup with plenty of cream and sweetener, and I now have the taste of bad coffee burned into my brain. I now know why I hate most “coffee-flavored” things, like coffee ice cream, because it has this horrible instant coffee taste. > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > I drink Nespresso, not top notch but a trade-off between convenience and taste I am willing to make. My wife uses a Nespresso every morning for this reason. I rarely touch the thing, unless I’m desperate. It’s passable espresso, but the thing is, I don’t like espresso, and I rarely choose espresso over filter coffee. That was my problem the last time we went to Italy. I loved almost everything about Italy, except the fact that to Italians, coffee means espresso, and it’s very hard to find non-espresso coffee. (It’s also hard to find non-gelato ice cream, but that’s not a huge problem for me. I do usually prefer American-style ice cream, but there’s nothing wrong with gelato.) I truly don’t get the espresso craze, because American-style coffee made properly is absolutely heavenly. I can recognize the quality of a good espresso when I taste it, but I still don’t really quite get why anyone would prefer espresso over coffee. I can see that as a matter of preference–it’s not comparable to the difference between making coffee with a good roast and a stale, burnt roast. People who make good espresso start with good coffee and use good techniques. > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > I am a foodie, and a very enthusiastic baker. I somehow have managed to do from scratch baking for 20 years, obsessing about the quality of eggs, milk, butter and flour I use without ever feeling the need to describe Pepperidge Farm Milano cookies as “trash” to someone who likes them because my cookies or the $7 each ones from a gourmet bakery are “objectively” better. We’re talking about a low-quality mass-market, highly processed product here. I don’t feel the need to consider people’s feeling when talking about the quality of coffee in a thread that is about the quality of coffee. Are you going to chastise me for saying that freshly squeezed orange juice without additives and preservatives and extenders is objectively better than Sunny D? (How grocery store orange juice is made is a whole nother [horror story](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuYPdTvqitg), of course.) > [@DPRK](#): > > @Acsenray is absolutely right that ground coffee does not have an indefinite shelf life, but, if the links in this thread prove anything, it is that you can take all that years-old stale coffee along with floor-sweepings tea bags and, instead of throwing them out, make a huge profit making them into $4 drinks with milk and fake sugar. I’ll say this: Starbucks isn’t absolute garbage. It’s a mediocre product but there is much worse on the shelves. Most diners I’ve been to serve coffee that’s way worse than Starbucks. I’ll also say this, that while I don’t prefer Starbucks, I don’t really resent the existence of Starbucks, because its success really paved teh way for third wave coffee in most of the country, and it led me to finding something I really loved. I’ll still tell you that if you think you like Starbucks’ cups full of milk and sugar, then give me a chance to show you how good coffee can really be. For many decades, my brother has been a coffee skeptic, saying things like “Oh, it’s just hot bitter that people drink because they are caffeine addicts” and “No one really likes black coffee; it’s only tolerable with milk and sugar.” (I have no problem with milk and sugar, but to me, you’ve got to start with good coffee first.) I started to introduce him to better coffee, and one day his eyes kind of lit up when he was served a cup of really quality coffee (Note: it was Hologram from Counter Culture). In the past year, he has gone from being a coffee skeptic to making his own pour-overs at home. So, yeah, I’ll sometimes have a Quarter Pounder with Cheese or a Starbucks coffee drink, but I’m not going to go around saying that they are “good.” The same way that I often enjoy a can of Spaghettios. It has its place in my life, but it’s not good, not in any way. I also used to enjoy an occasional Hostess cake snack, but since the 2012 bankruptcy and liquidation, the stuff sold under the Hostess name now is really terrible, not even enjoyable on a trash basis. (Tastykake has to fill that role now.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/159 "2022-06-11T18:28:09Z")
No. Don’t like conga. Coffee so strong that the spoon stands up is meant for teachers and savages, not mere mortals like me. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2022, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645/160 "2022-06-11T18:34:59Z")
Hearts and minds. That’s what it’s all about. > **[Howard Schultz: Starbucks Is Battling for the ‘Hearts and Minds’ of Workers](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/11/business/dealbook/howard-schultz-starbucks.html)** > > Mr. Schultz, the chief executive of Starbucks, discussed the challenges he’s faced since returning to lead the company as it faces rising worker discontent and China’s ever-increasing role in global business. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-isnt-worth-it-any-more-and-the-company-is-getting-already-evil/965645.md?page=9)