# Starbucks shuts down its online store--how is that not batshit insane? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 22, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084 "2017-12-22T22:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mrdeals](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Mrdeals](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrdeals)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/21 "2017-12-23T03:29:32Z")
If they are trying to drive traffic to physical locations, why do they sell bags of coffee in every grocery store? My guess is major retailers were getting pissed at Starbucks, trying to be a wholesaler and retailer at the same time can be a messy game. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/22 "2017-12-23T03:32:48Z")
> [@Mrdeals](#): > > My guess is major retailers were getting pissed > at Starbucks, trying to be a wholesaler and retailer at the same time can be a messy game. Though, they probably did the standard thing of selling to grocery stores, etc., at a wholesales price point such that they were not being undercut by the online store. ---
**Author:** ![Mrdeals](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea666f/32.png) [@Mrdeals](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mrdeals)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/23 "2017-12-23T03:40:23Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Though, they probably did the standard thing of selling to grocery stores, etc., at a wholesales price point such that they were not being undercut by the online store. I’m sure the big guys were able to negotiate good prices, but at the same time they are competing against THE manufacturer, wholesaler, retailer, etc. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/24 "2017-12-23T03:52:37Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > As noted, you can buy Starbucks coffee at grocery stores. Ours also has an in-store Starbucks a couple aisles away. > > _And_ you can buy Starbucks online via Amazon and such. > > Running your own online store is a waste for a lot of companies. Let others do it. Bingo. What’s the point of having an online store and whatever expense comes with that, if you are already selling it in every Walmart, Kroger and other grocery store in the country, and also on Amazon and Walmart’s online stores? Not to mention it being available at every physical Starbucks location in the country? It’s like Procter and Gamble selling Tide through a Tide Online Store. What’s the point- the stuff is nearly ubiquitous. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/25 "2017-12-23T03:59:03Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Bingo. > > What’s the point of having an online store and whatever expense comes with that, if you are already selling it in every Walmart, Kroger and other grocery store in the country, and also on Amazon and Walmart’s online stores? Not to mention it being available at every physical Starbucks location in the country? I guess I must repeat myself again: the Reserve line of premium coffees–plus the other points I made. > [@](#): > > It’s like Procter and Gamble selling Tide through a Tide Online Store. What’s the point- the stuff is nearly ubiquitous. Again, Starbucks would _undoubtedly_ balk at being considered the same thing as a daily commonplace like Tide. “We’re PREMIUM, dammit!” But deleting the online store actually provides a foundation for the commodification you describe: “Hey, you can get our shit anywhere, so why bother with ecommerce?” That’s precisely _why_, if for no other reason, it made sense to keep the online store: it helped keep up the pretense that Starbucks is a premium product and not a commodity. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/26 "2017-12-23T04:31:50Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > It’s probably more accurate to say that _not_ having an online store is damaging to prestige with respect to a great many types of brands. > > Obviously, there are many different types of distribution models. Starbucks does not have franchise stores; they are all corporate-owned. So there was no “ripping off” franchised storefronts by selling online. Cannibalization could be a potential issue. But shutting down that online store and just saying buh-bye to that channel for customer engagement and whatnot? That’s not premium. That’s not prestige. Actually, according to its last [annual report](https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fs22.q4cdn.com%2F869488222%2Ffiles%2Fdoc_financials%2Fannual%2F2016%2FFY16-Annual-Report-on-Form-10-K.pdf), Starbucks has 8,761 company-owned and 6,132 “licensed” (franchise) stores in the North America. Worldwide, the percentage of franchisees is even higher. The company doesn’t break out online sales. They’re lumped in the category of “consumer package goods” sold through grocery stores and other retailers. The entire category is only 8% of revenues, and I’d imagine the online segment is a relatively small portion of that. But more importantly, reading through the annual report, it’s clear that Starbucks sees itself as a retailer/restaurant, not a coffee supplier. Several times it refers to the _Starbucks Experience_ (that’s literally in italics!) And if you read the CEO’s comments to analysts after the last (disappointing) quarterly earnings report, it’s clear that the company’s next big thing is trying to increase their lunch business. If you sell your product in almost 15,000 North American locations _and_ through grocery stores, _and_ on Amazon, why bother with an e-store, especially if a poorly designed or glitchy site could damage your _Starbucks Experience_? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/27 "2017-12-23T04:46:17Z")
Tide is a premium laundry detergent. It’s arguably the most sought after brand in America. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/28 "2017-12-23T05:01:13Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Actually, according to its last [annual report](https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=https%3A%2F%2Fs22.q4cdn.com%2F869488222%2Ffiles%2Fdoc_financials%2Fannual%2F2016%2FFY16-Annual-Report-on-Form-10-K.pdf), Starbucks has 8,761 company-owned and 6,132 “licensed” (franchise) stores in the North America. Worldwide, the percentage of franchisees is even higher. Yeah, I was wrong, but I think those (at least in the US) are the ones that are in Kroger grocery stores, airport kiosks, and whatnot. I don’t think the standalone Starbucks are franchises, but of course I could be wrong. > [@](#): > > The company doesn’t break out online sales. They’re lumped in the category of “consumer package goods” sold through grocery stores and other retailers. The entire category is only 8% of revenues, and I’d imagine the online segment is a relatively small portion of that. Probably. I doubt they were making much money off of it. Point being, it’s a “bad look” when you’re a zillion-dollar corp and you ditch your ecommerce. Even if it was in the red (which I doubt, at least not much at worst), it’s an online ad for the brick and mortar as well. > [@](#): > > But more importantly, reading through the annual report, it’s clear that Starbucks sees itself as a retailer/restaurant, not a coffee supplier. Several times it refers to the _Starbucks Experience_ (that’s literally in italics!) And if you read the CEO’s comments to analysts after the last (disappointing) quarterly earnings report, it’s clear that the company’s next big thing is trying to increase their lunch business. I agree with the analysis here: > **[Starbucks Closing Teavana Is A Long-Term Troubling Sign For Investors](https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamhartung/2017/07/31/starbucks-closing-teavana-is-a-long-term-troubling-sign-for-investors/#3963c8465b76)** > > Starbucks closing Teavana seems like a small deal, but it could be a big telltale about future growth problems for Starbucks **It increasingly appears that today’s Starbucks literally isn’t interested, or able, to do anything other than build, and operate, more Starbucks stores. And Starbucks is clearly doubling down on its plans to be Starbucks store-centric.** Starbucks is facing the problem that any mega-sloppy-big company faces: how the fuck do we grow and justify our existence under “capitalism,” in which growth is everything? Once companies max out their shit, the game just isn’t fun any more. One you win, you lose, in effect. Starbucks has stumbled with a bunch of stuff in recent years. They tried selling beer and wine after a certain time in the evening–flop. I gather that their food sales are stagnant. Several years ago, they were like, “We’re redoing all our baked goods!” but today they are kinda the same old thing, and I don’t see people clamoring for their food when I go in there. Sure, it sells. But the whole food operation seems lost in 2006 or so (Starbucks as a whole does too, however). > [@](#): > > If you sell your product in almost 15,000 North American locations _and_ through grocery stores, _and_ on Amazon, why bother with an e-store, especially if a poorly designed or glitchy site could damage your _Starbucks Experience_? Well, it wasn’t; it was (insofar as I could see) a first-class website. I’m an MBA who is extremely cynical about corporate culture. A lot of what CEOs do is akin to the man who loses his keys but searches beneath the lamppost first for them, since if they are there he can find them easily. Companies _love_ to blather about stuff like the “Starbucks experience,” since that’s, so to speak, software that anyone can make believe about. Hardware (if you will indulge my analogy), such as radically new products that actually make a difference to customers, are much harder to pull off. To me, Starbucks has coffee that tastes fine and nice enough decor and bathrooms that among the best to use when one is on the road. There is no special “experience” beyond that. Anything they offer that’s experiential has been fully commoditized at this point. And I’m sure their execs on some level know this. They don’t really have any vision about how to move forward. Ditching ecommerce and shuttering Teavanna show a really depressing lack of vision, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/29 "2017-12-23T05:06:42Z")
Before reading this thread, it would never have occurred to me that Starbucks might have an online store, any more than any bar or restaurant would. Ordering coffee drinks online? That’s the part that strikes me as batshit insane. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/30 "2017-12-23T05:18:02Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Before reading this thread, it would never have occurred to me that Starbucks might have an online store, any more than any bar or restaurant would. Ordering coffee drinks online? That’s the part that strikes me as batshit insane. Drinks can still be ordered with the Starbucks app, so that hasn’t really changed. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/31 "2017-12-23T08:04:47Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Point being, it’s a “bad look” when you’re a zillion-dollar corp and you ditch your ecommerce. …considering that you are the only person that I can find online that is remotely upset by this, I very much doubt its that much of a “bad look” for Starbucks at all. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/32 "2017-12-23T08:05:11Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Maybe people weren’t purchasing enough from the online store, so they shut it down. I don’t know. I buy Starbucks ground coffee at my local grocery out in the sticks, so it’s rather widely available in general. I used to prefer Seattle’s best, but they stopped carrying it at the grocery, so Starbucks is my backup for coffee with character. (The grocery also stopped carrying Lavazza, which had a few varieties that I liked.) SEattle’s Best is part of starbucks. [See hereL](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle%27s_Best_Coffee) In the hallowed halls of the Microsoft HQ, free coffee machines for the employees are everywhere featuring a pushbutton choice of starbucks or seattle’s best 6 years there and I couldn’t tell a difference. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/33 "2017-12-23T08:45:06Z")
OP, is it your contention that Starbucks is in some kind of secret financial trouble? If so, how serious! If not, why do you find it so hard to believe that they may have perfectly rational reasons for their decision? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/34 "2017-12-23T09:39:44Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Is that what you get when Muhammed celebrates Easter? Okay, I don’t care who you are, this is fucking funny. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > I’ve never thought of having a on-line store as a “prestige” thing. And Starbucks coffee is widely available. I don’t know why they stopped selling it on-line, but I can’t think why anyone other than their web developer would care much. > > I see several flavors of beans and some canned coffee drinks on Amazon, so you can still buy the coffee on-line. > > \*\*Ah – the Motley Fool article says: Syrups and sauces, which customers could use to duplicate their favorite drinks at home will “no longer be available for retail purchase.” > > So maybe that’s the point? They don’t want customers making the fancy drinks at home, for a lower profit margin? Anyway, making fancy coffee milkshakes is too much work, that’s what starbucks storefronts are for.\*\* I think this is it, in a nut. Starbucks doesn’t really sell coffee anymore (well, maybe to older people), they sell _coffee-based drinks_. It’s an important distinction, and it is my belief that they want to drive business to their (arguably more profitable) brick and mortar places to get that ever so special, one-of-a-kind coffee based beverage that you cannot buy (or replicate) anywhere else. The irony of course is that many, many Starbucks “stores” are fronts in a Kroger, etc where you can just as easily still buy their grounds, beans and K-Cups (by the way, the flavors on these are LEGION) rather than wait in that stupid line that always takes forever to get a mocha/frappa/caramel/salted/macchiato/vente/whatever pretentious language they created…drink. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/35 "2017-12-23T11:47:31Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …considering that you are the only person that I can find online that is remotely upset by this, I very much doubt its that much of a “bad look” for Starbucks at all. Well, I find know anyone irl who cares, either. But Aechines, you are not alone in being unhappy with the changes they are making. My son is sad they are closing teavana. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/36 "2017-12-23T12:19:25Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Probably. I doubt they were making much money off of it. Point being, it’s a “bad look” when you’re a zillion-dollar corp and you ditch your ecommerce. Why is this a bad look? As an investor or analyst, what you want to see is rising margins. It sounds like Starbucks sat down, realized that their online shoppers just want a bag of French Roast twice a month, and said “hey Costco, you’re good at this, let’s make a deal”. And that’s why there’s a [dedicated Costco e-commerce page offering Starbucks products](https://www.costco.com/starbucks.html) that people are most likely to buy. They may have started life as a roaster, but they’re well beyond that now. They’re a coffee shop. I hear the margins on sugar milk are very fat. People get twitchy if there’s not a Starbucks in a 1-mile radius. They have a mobile app that offers incentives to visit the store during slow times. > [@](#): > > Even if it was in the red (which I doubt, at least not much at worst), it’s an online ad for the brick and mortar as well. This doesn’t make sense to me. You can have online ads that aren’t attached to a bag of coffee beans. Ads are cheaper that way. Having said that, ironically, I was just about to go pull up the online store to see where I could buy their ‘Christmas Blend’ which I found unexpectedly good this year. It’s already sold out of the local stores. Hello artificial scarcity and high prices! ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/37 "2017-12-23T12:46:51Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Having said that, ironically, I was just about to go pull up the online store to see where I could buy their ‘Christmas Blend’ which I found unexpectedly good this year. It’s already sold out of the local stores. Hello artificial scarcity and high prices! Not to worry, you don’t even have to belong to Costco. Starbucks has an [Amazon storefront.](https://smile.amazon.com/adlp/starbucks?store_ref=SPONSORED_SEARCH_AC1CJK91U7E1F34&store_ref=SPONSORED_SEARCH_AC1CJK91U7E1F34&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3365067662&pd_rd_wg=jctEe&pf_rd_r=AYSY4GNB8NTG21QY47N8&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_w=jvCrb&pf_rd_i=starbucks+coffee&pd_rd_r=aa9d52c5-8759-45a8-bf4d-93e76c3af0a3&hsa_cr_id=2818493370201) (e-i-e-i-o) And in that storefront they have [Holiday Blend](https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_17/139-0733141-9583828?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=starbucks+holiday+blend&sprefix=starbucks+holiday%2Caps%2C350&crid=38DSA7YW036G2). (e-i-e-i-o) ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/38 "2017-12-23T16:27:34Z")
> [@China Guy](#): > > In the hallowed halls of the Microsoft HQ, free coffee machines for the employees are everywhere featuring a pushbutton choice of starbucks or seattle’s best 6 years there and I couldn’t tell a difference. YMMV I was never convinced that the person that filled the machines ever made any distinction between what coffee they were dumping into which slot. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/39 "2017-12-23T16:28:55Z")
My wife tried ordering coffee from their online store but it was cold by the time it arrived. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/40 "2017-12-23T16:29:30Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Not to worry, you don’t even have to belong to Costco. > > Starbucks has an [Amazon storefront.](https://smile.amazon.com/adlp/starbucks?store_ref=SPONSORED_SEARCH_AC1CJK91U7E1F34&store_ref=SPONSORED_SEARCH_AC1CJK91U7E1F34&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=3365067662&pd_rd_wg=jctEe&pf_rd_r=AYSY4GNB8NTG21QY47N8&pf_rd_s=desktop-sx-top-slot&pf_rd_t=301&pd_rd_w=jvCrb&pf_rd_i=starbucks+coffee&pd_rd_r=aa9d52c5-8759-45a8-bf4d-93e76c3af0a3&hsa_cr_id=2818493370201) (e-i-e-i-o) > And in that storefront they have [Holiday Blend](https://smile.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_3_17/139-0733141-9583828?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=starbucks+holiday+blend&sprefix=starbucks+holiday%2Caps%2C350&crid=38DSA7YW036G2). (e-i-e-i-o) Thanks kind stranger! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084.md?page=3)