# Starbucks shuts down its online store--how is that not batshit insane? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 22, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084 "2017-12-22T22:47:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/61 "2017-12-24T12:30:25Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > … > As to what their brand is right now? It is a bit muddled but I picture them as an international premium brand. They are not the boutique high end for the real snob but they are a consistent higher end product for those who might look down on Dunkin Donuts (although DD coffee in fact aint bad). You can go anywhere in the world and you will know you will get that same sort of experience/quality. … Exactly. They are mid-range. They aren’t “cheap and available”, like Dunkin or the place whose radio ad touts the low price. They aren’t boutique. They sell a reliable coffee that never tastes sour, and they do coffee drinks with endless personalization, and do them accurately. I just checked Peets, the best coffee shop in town (for coffee quality), and somewhat to my surprise, they do have an on-line shop. They tell you what day your choice will be roasted, and promise to ship later that day. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/62 "2017-12-24T12:32:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > They are not the boutique high end for the real snob but **they are a consistent higher end product for those who might look down on Dunkin Donuts (although DD coffee in fact aint bad). You can go anywhere in the world and you will know you will get that same sort of experience/quality.** Some more premium than others and the Reserve is aimed to compete with the boutique market but online does not seem to be required to do that. That’s it, in a nutshell (bolding mine). I live in DD land where there is a DD (almost) on every street corner. We have a good number of Starbucks too. I don’t know of anyone who singles out “Oh, I MUST go to Starbucks!” That’s what everyone does with DD. I have an extended family member who drinks their house blend exclusively, which, like Starbucks, can be found in nearly every supermarket here. Here’s a tidbit about “Starbucks experience”: They _are_ nice areas in which to hang out and sip your coffee. It’s the ambiance. Our local Starbucks has an outdoor area with benches and tables-with-umbrellas. You see more people sitting there chatting while sipping their ultra fancy coffee-based drinks, sometimes with a dog in tow, than you do at any local DD’s where the interior is strictly utilitarian. I’ve never been a Starbucks fan. I find their coffee very bitter. DD’s makes better breakfast sandwiches. Starbucks has _fancier_ pastry offerings. People here tend to measure donut quality between DD and other places (the _experts_ I know claim DD’s donut quality has gone down in recent years, but I take that with a grain of salt because people tend to say that about nearly everything). DD’s offerings are nowhere near as broad but they’re consistent. DD must be feeling the heat too. Out in CA (I think) they’re tinkering with a “Dunkin” concept [where coffee-and-donuts aren’t the focus.](http://www.dunkinbrands.com/news/dunkin-donuts-announces-plans-for-10-new-restaurants-in-minneapolis-minnesota-with-new-franchise-group-legacy-concepts-llc) The fact that it’s moving into other areas leads me to believe that competition in the coffee shop category has hit a wall and players like Starbucks will eventually have to expand its offerings to stay in the game. For now, though, it seems that Starbucks is happy right where it is. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/63 "2017-12-24T12:42:50Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > OK, hit pause for a second. Do you _really_ think that the marketing suits at Starbucks would be OK with what you just wrote? That matches the internal narrative at Starbucks? I can almost guarantee you that they do not. Well, you say that… I mean yeah, the section of the marketing team responsible for making Starbucks a premium brand, and the employees who identified with it? They’re probably grousing and updating their resumes and slowly being replaced by a team more amenable to the current reality. That’s what happens when brands drift. And though I mock their beverage product, I don’t mean to suggest it’s a low-prestige product. I feel like they have hit a sweet spot of presenting a commodity product with some exclusivity and prestige. It’s the Dunkin Donuts of soccer mom assistant-marketing-VPs on the go. It’s coffee that people are still paying 6 bucks for, and not because it’s an especially rare roast. > [@](#): > > I am a tea fan and I buy it online, and you pretty much have to if you want to explore a wide selection. I think this gets at the heart of it. As a tea fan, you are engaging with variety. That is somewhat true of premium coffee fans, but they are engaging more with quality, freshness, supplier integrity, and maybe some sensory shopping experience as well. Perhaps Starbucks thought they could indefinitely maintain that premium-roaster prestige while they simultaneously expanded into being a beverage chain serving every suburban interstate offramp. Or perhaps they knew they’d always have to grow past it in some fashion. I see this as consistent with a recognition that the brand is drifting. It’s also possible that they’re making a bad strategic analysis or decision, but it would take data to make that call. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/64 "2017-12-24T14:11:29Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > … (the _experts_ I know claim DD’s donut quality has gone down in recent years, but I take that with a grain of salt because people tend to say that about nearly everything)… Dunkin’s donut quality plummeted when they stopped making them on-site, and started shipping them from a giant factory somewhere. But that was decades ago. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/65 "2017-12-24T14:35:10Z")
OK, everyone is getting into the discussion, and I appreciate it. I think we are largely going to agree on the positioning issue, but that doesn’t mean that I agree that the “kill ecommerce” decision followed logically from that. Further, agreeing that Starbucks has MOR positioning doesn’t mean I think that the internal narrative at the company would agree that it’s MOR or even _should_ agree that it’s MOR. I think it’s almost kinda necessary for Starbucks to lie to itself and pretend it’s premium to itself and its customers, lest it slide down into DD territory. Another data point (or set of points) that would be extremely interesting to know is: Who was advocating for the online store in the first place? How much was it emphasized internally? Was there any resistance to eliminating it? Why or why not? As a general aside about corporate competence, I never assume it! And I think there is a vague assumption at work in this thread that “Starbucks certainly knew what it was doing.” I have worked for huge companies (US and Japanese) and seen extreme idiocy at work, and I’ve translated for really really big Japanese companies since 2002, and I get some unique behind-the-scenes peeks into their thinking or lack thereof. As a general rule, any large organization run by humans is a mix of competence and incompetence. There are _always_ things falling through the cracks, being missed, being done for irrational or personal reasons instead of metrics, etc. Pick the supposedly best, most prestigious, most competent companies in the world–Apple, Amazon, whoever–and that kind of thing is happening right now. > [@DSeid](#): > > As has been well established they can and do sell online already via other means. If they want to sell Reserve online they could. The business decision for the online store was if the loss to the middleman was more than the cost of running the site. Reserve was/is only sold at special Starbucks stores and online. There was no middleman in that case. Also, one thing we haven’t talked about is merch, which the store also sold online. I don’t really see a good case for not selling those two things online, even granting the positioning we basically agree upon. Had they said, “We’re focusing our online store on two areas where demand is widespread but product quantities are limited: our premium Reserve coffees and our Starbucks brand merchandise,” or something like that, I would not have written the OP (even if I had disagreed, it at least would not have been an obviously [to me] odd/stupid decision). > [@](#): > > As to what their brand is right now? It is a bit muddled but I picture them as an international premium brand. They are not the boutique high end for the real snob but they are a consistent higher end product for those who might look down on Dunkin Donuts (although DD coffee in fact aint bad). You can go anywhere in the world and you will know you will get that same sort of experience/quality. Yes, good summary. > [@](#): > > Some more premium than others and the Reserve is aimed to compete with the boutique market but online does not seem to be required to do that. Well… the boutique market is not something unified, so what does “competition” mean in that sense? One could argue that Starbucks has the scale and core competencies to _dominate_ the ultra-premium space, in which case online would seem to be necessary. But they don’t appear to have a real strategy in this area. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/66 "2017-12-24T14:44:34Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > They sell a reliable coffee that never tastes sour, and they do coffee drinks with endless personalization, and do them accurately. As an interesting data point: I ordered a regular cappuccino once at the Starbucks at the Fashion Mall in Indy, which is about as upscale as retail gets in this city. That order led to a conversation with the barista, who observed that people almost _never_ order an unflavored espresso drink. It was really rare. So the Starbucks “beverage” has become sui generis, not really coffee at all. And I’m just going to throw out a speculation that that category of “bev” could actually be a fad that dies. 100 years from now, I’m pretty sure that people will be using joe to wake up in the morning, but I’m not equally sure that they will want to spend $30 (accounting for inflation) on the double-pump breve hazelnut lattes and whatnot in such numbers as to support a sprawling international chain. Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/67 "2017-12-24T14:58:07Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > Here’s a tidbit about “Starbucks experience”: They _are_ nice areas in which to hang out and sip your coffee. It’s the ambiance. Our local Starbucks has an outdoor area with benches and tables-with-umbrellas. You see more people sitting there chatting while sipping their ultra fancy coffee-based drinks, sometimes with a dog in tow, than you do at any local DD’s where the interior is strictly utilitarian. Agree 100% And I’ll add that it’s the best place to go to the bathroom when on the road. When I drive from Indy to NW IN, I always stop at the Starbucks in Lafayette. It’s a genuinely “nice” environment. And usually some hot young chicks are working there too who smile and don’t seem to hate life. Now, does all that translate into the “Starbucks experience” as envisioned by the suits? I doubt it. Because those guys/gals are always spinning a tale in which people become more or more engaged and spend more and more and so on to infinity. They are not imagining people thinking, “Meh, it’s OK.” They are telling a much prettier lie to themselves. I’ve never been a Starbucks fan. I find their coffee very bitter. > [@](#): > > The fact that it’s moving into other areas leads me to believe that competition in the coffee shop category has hit a wall and players like Starbucks will eventually have to expand its offerings to stay in the game. For now, though, it seems that Starbucks is happy right where it is. I agree about the wall, but I don’t gather from what I read that Starbucks is “happy” either. Stagnant same store sales is pretty much _the_ bete noire of retail. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/68 "2017-12-24T15:51:53Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > … Had they said, “We’re focusing our online store on two areas where demand is widespread but product quantities are limited: our premium Reserve coffees and our Starbucks brand merchandise,” or something like that, I would not have written the OP (even if I had disagreed, it at least would not have been an obviously [to me] odd/stupid decision). … Merch is pretty widely available. And Reserve is something that even at a premium price point I’d guess has a relatively low margin. The point of offering it is more a marketing bit than to generate much profit. And in fact likely yes, to get some who are interested in that luxury product in the store where they may also buy some higher margin items. The foot traffic bit is likely actually a real part of the equation as it is the beverages that have huge margins. Note also that while there may not be a Pete’s close to almost everyone (thus a need for an online presence) few do not live near a brick and mortar Starbucks, and many pass by several on their way to and from work each day. It is trivially easy for them to stop in and get beans, and may on impulse a Grande Latte. > [@](#): > > … Well… the boutique market is not something unified, so what does “competition” mean in that sense? One could argue that Starbucks has the scale and core competencies to _dominate_ the ultra-premium space, in which case online would seem to be necessary. But they don’t appear to have a real strategy in this area. Competition means that within many cities (not all) the coffee snob/geek has choices than Starbucks with a variety that Starbucks cannot offer in the consistent manner that is their core competency. They simply do not have what it takes to dominate that space any more than AmBev can dominate the craft beer market. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/69 "2017-12-24T16:48:08Z")
Well garsh, how am I going to buy my Starbucks Reserve coffee now? Not that I ever did before, but now the option is gone. :mad::smack:😕 We get a variety of coffees as grist for the Mr. Coffee machine, which often includes Starbucks Giant Rat of Sumatra and Expresso types, available at the local supermart. I agree that Starbucks shutting down a source of online sales to “drive customers to their stores” runs counter to the nationwide trend and seems as bizarre as Victoria’s Secret dumping their mailed catalogs :(, but if it’s a doomed strategy we’ll find out soon enough. It will not affect my very occasional order of a regular coffee and decent pastry at one of their bookstore outlets. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2017, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/70 "2017-12-26T01:51:30Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Yup, this has already been said a bunch of times. I think the argument about driving traffic falls on the horns of a dilemma: if the website was truly so effective as to cannibalize traffic, it would be insane (batshit insane, even) to just drag it to the trash can icon instead of trying to channel that energy, enthusiasm, and sales in some other way. I don’t think there is much evidence (Starbucks own communications, etc.) to point to this horn of the dilemma. That leaves the other: If the website was so small as not to affect foot traffic, then why not just leave it up? The only reason would be if it is massively in the red; again, not a very realistic scenario. FWIW, the articles by the _major_ media showed a shocking lack of interest in pondering this scenario and simply parroted Starbucks talking points for the most part. > [@kunilou](#): > > The company doesn’t break out online sales. They’re lumped in the category of “consumer package goods” sold through grocery stores and other retailers. The entire category is only 8% of revenues, and I’d imagine the online segment is a relatively small portion of that. We know it is some point \< 8% of revenue from the above cite. Do you know if they were running it themselves or outsourcing it to someone like shoprunner? Were profits less than revenue? If revenue is small & profits even smaller it may be easier to just shut it & not deal with the amount of effort that minuscule revenue/profit generate. > [@Aeschines](#): > > What _is_ their target market? That’s something I don’t see Starbucks defining very well at all. And I think the notion of companies making money from people _not_ using gift cards is absurd. You _want_ people to come in, engage, have that vaunted “experience,” and become a repeat buyer or advocate. You do _not_ just hope that people lose a gift card so you can make an extra $25.00. **romanperson** , by his definition lives so far out in the sticks that he can’t easily get to a Starsucks to get that “experience”. He can get their home product when he goes into town for provisions once/twice a month or buy it online from Amazon, which is both easier for the consumer (one website instead of multiple ones) & less of them being in competition with their retailers; again, for minimum profit. > [@Aeschines](#): > > Everyone knows that McDonald’s has shitton of locations and is a corporate giant. No one thinks of it as premium, however. I think of them at the premier fast food location. They have numerous locations that are all fast, cheap, & similar. I know what’s available & (almost) the exact cost at any one of their myriad locations in this country before pulling in. I don’t put them in the same category as the higher end, custom cooked & topped burger joints (which take longer) let alone a nice steakhouse. > [@Aeschines](#): > > Further, while it’s absolutely correct that _having_ a website or online store does not in any way demonstrate that a business is premium, _not_ having a website or online store could definitely send a negative message. In fact, that’s really what I’ve been saying this whole time: it’s not so much that Starbucks is going to lose important sales by nixing the website; rather, it seems weird and sends the wrong message about the company. It’s like doing networking with our without business cards. If you have them, that’s no big deal, everyone has them; but if you don’t have them, you look like an idiot. How many people are viewing their website, for something like locations &/or corporate info vs the sales portal? I’m not alone in this thread in not even knowing you could buy products directly from them online before you started this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/71 "2017-12-27T19:46:16Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > My opinion: what a travesty. To me, it’s an indirect admission by the company that its coffees are not all that special, including Reserve, which it would have us believe is premium. Why? Because Reserve is available only in limited quantities and at a limited number of locations. If it was just “so good,” then people would treasure the stuff and want to order it online right? Not just hope that they have a Starbucks in town that has it and it hasn’t sold out of that particular type. Effin’ ridiculous. “And the portions are too small!” If for some reason you need to purchase their shitty coffee online: [Hey, look!](https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Dgrocery&field-keywords=starbucks+coffee) There are so many things in the world right now that are actually “batshit insane” that whinging about Starbucks electing to not sell coffee direct to consumers via the Internet–and all of the cost and hassle of maintaining an online point-of-sale infrastructure–is like complaining about the lack of hot water in a concentration camp. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/72 "2017-12-27T21:54:22Z")
There isn’t a huge differentiation between buying Starbucks coffee from [starbucks.com](http://starbucks.com) and buying it from [Amazon.com](http://Amazon.com) or a thousand other online retailers. And there are costs and risks associated with running an ecommerce website. eCommerce isn’t a core competency for Starbucks, it doesn’t make sense for them to do it. They could outsource the ecommerce thing, but then they have to manage the supplier - or they can just sell their goods through Amazon. As more and more of the ecommerce sales get consolidated into the major sites, there isn’t an ROI in Starbucks maintaining a ecommerce presence - there is, as has been pointed out - value in getting you to swing through their stores for their beans, because you are likely to buy a $6 cup of coffee while you are there. PCI isn’t cheap - and while you can outsource that bit, you are still paying someone to do it. And if the data gets stolen, it won’t be the name of your payment processing partner on the front page of CNN - it will be “Starbucks looses a million credit card numbers.” As to why Starbucks doesn’t tell you that you can buy their coffee online though other retailers, perhaps its because understanding how to do a basic google search or shop at Amazon is considered common knowledge in 2017. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2017, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084/73 "2017-12-28T04:16:47Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > Starbucks does _not_ want to be lumped in with everyone else. After all, it was roasting “quality” coffee back in 1971, decades before most people knew what “real” coffee even tasted like. Of course, today, that’s a dated narrative and I agree with you that Starbucks is regularly dismissed by coffee aficionados as something not even worth thinking about. But companies hold onto those narratives for a long time, and the suits really have to pretend that they believe them. > [@Aeschines](#): > > Now, does all that translate into the “Starbucks experience” as envisioned by the suits? I doubt it. Because those guys/gals are always spinning a tale in which people become more or more engaged and spend more and more and so on to infinity. They are not imagining people thinking, “Meh, it’s OK.” They are telling a much prettier lie to themselves. You keep talking about these “suits” and what they’re thinking and doing. Is this based on any actual knowledge or is it just speculation? Do you actually know anybody who works for Starbucks HQ? The people I know who work and have worked there don’t claim the coffee or “experience” is anything glamorous or special. They’re neither dishonest nor stupid. Starbucks embodies a solid combination of factors that work well to get the customers coming back over and over. That’s all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starbucks-shuts-down-its-online-store-how-is-that-not-batshit-insane/805084.md?page=3)