# Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 11, 2013, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620 "2013-03-11T07:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/41 "2013-03-15T17:47:34Z")
Does anyone else here (and I’m assuming none of you are ranked South Korean SC masters) have trouble controlling multiple groups of units at once? My limit is about 5. Using the Terrans as an example, depending on what part of the game I’m in (talking campaign here, not multiplayer), I usually have my main attacking units (of the same type) all in hot key 1 and 2. I am not good at remembering which units are strong against which others, so I tend to just mass a bunch of units that I like at once. Also, I hate having to micromanage air-attack-only and ground-attack-units, so I usually try to take Battlecruisers if I can, or mixed groups of Marines, Goliaths, Maurauders, and Medics in Group 1 if Battleships haven’t been unlocked. I used to use Vikings, but currently I’m kind of relearning how to play SC2 and have gotten annoyed at the air-only or ground-only switch I have to do, so I’ve cut out all Vikings from my usual playthroughs. Siege tanks are still too good for me to ignore, so they are usually in Group 2, with me slowly moving them forward while they are supported by a fleet of Battlecruisers. Group 3 is my Medivacs and Science Vessels (never use Ravens), I usually have about 2 Medivacs if I have Marine/Marauders and 3-5 Science Vessels. I try not to bring a 4th group of units if possible, because then it gets really annoying to move them around. I never use Vultures, Wraiths, Diamondbacks, Hellions, or Reapers. At all. I hate building them and hate trying to make them fit into my group. I’m used to which group is in my hot keys. 2 is always Siege Tanks, 1 is always my main air/ground attack, and 3 or 4 is my repairing units. I’m probably not a good SC player but I have fun! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/42 "2013-03-15T23:47:49Z")
If you’re playing the campaign, then you don’t have to think on the fly about which units are good against which, since the enemy army will have the same composition every time through the mission, and so you can choose your forces at the start. And I never used Vultures much either (Hellions are better for almost all purposes), but you can’t really try to make Wraiths, Diamondbacks, Hellions, or Reapers “fit into a group”. They’re all too specialized. Wraiths are for taking out undetected enemy bases before you get Banshees, or enemy battlecruisers even after: Bring them in cloaked, do as much damage as you can until you get scanned, then bug them out, wait for the scan to wear off, and repeat. Diamondbacks absolutely shred anything armored, and aren’t really weak against anything but air, but their speed makes them hard to pair with other ground forces. Hellions are great for the Colonist mission series, which are packed with masses of light units. And Reapers will open up “back doors” in many missions, where you can cliffjump to take big chunks out of the enemy bases. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/43 "2013-03-16T00:14:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Hellions are great for the Colonist mission series, which are packed with masses of light units. And Reapers will open up “back doors” in many missions, where you can cliffjump to take big chunks out of the enemy bases. Reapers still beat hellions in the colonist missions, imo. Remember, reapers get a damage bonus against light units AND buildings. 2-3 medium sized groups of reapers break Outbreak over their knee (just make sure to bring them home at night, because with that many reapers you don’t have money or time to build a lot of base defense units). ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/44 "2013-03-16T00:42:34Z")
That said, 90% of the missions in this game can basically be steamrolled with a MMM bioball (though some of them may require other approaches if they have achievements, i.e. Media Blitz’s time limit achievement on hard). ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/45 "2013-03-16T00:56:38Z")
This MLG stream is confusing when you haven’t followed the development of the expansion at all. Swarm Hosts seem kind of identical to Infestors with Infested Terran. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/46 "2013-03-16T01:09:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Reapers still beat hellions in the colonist missions, imo. Remember, reapers get a damage bonus against light units AND buildings. Most of the buildings in the colonist missions also have the “light” tag. And I’d say that the area-effect puts the Hellions over the top: They’re so good that you can just keep pushing straight forward, day and night. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/47 "2013-03-16T01:19:23Z")
> [@Palooka](#): > > This MLG stream is confusing when you haven’t followed the development of the expansion at all. Swarm Hosts seem kind of identical to Infestors with Infested Terran. Sawrm hosts passively spawn locusts, it takes energy for infestors to spawn infested terran. Infestors are more like harassment units, swarm hosts are more useful for locking people in their base (which was seen in the last match of the launch party). If swarm hosts are like anything, it’s brood lords which shoot a constant stream of broodlings at their target. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/48 "2013-03-16T02:43:13Z")
Each zerg unit gets the ability to pick from one of 3 “upgrades”, improving them in different ways. The cool part is its not permanent- you can experiment with different combos. In addition, you get “evolution missions” that showcase 2 sub-strains of each unit. After getting a feel for each, you can then permanently upgrade that unit type. Kerrigan herself gains abilities and rapidly becomes a one woman wrecking crew. I just gained the ability to summon banelings- in my case, cliffjumping, leaping banelings that do 2x damage :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2013, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/49 "2013-03-16T04:41:28Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Kerrigan herself gains abilities and rapidly becomes a one woman wrecking crew. She better be, after what she was doing to my base the first time I played All-In. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/50 "2013-03-18T08:39:04Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Kerrigan herself gains abilities and rapidly becomes a one woman wrecking crew. I just gained the ability to summon banelings- in my case, cliffjumping, leaping banelings that do 2x damage :eek: So far I’ve found Wild Mutation really useful. Usually after that initial push through the choke/ramp the base just immediately crumbles. A bunch of raptorlings, vile roaches, and maybe hydras or aberrations with +200 hp and +100% attack speed just ruin everything. Especially if you focus the tanks, thors, archons etc. The base just completely collapses. ---
**Author:** ![CandidGamera](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/candidgamera/32/2878_2.png) [@CandidGamera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CandidGamera)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/51 "2013-03-18T13:28:23Z")
I finally got to start the Zerg campaign yesterday. It’s interesting, but I am reminded why the Zerg are a distant third in my affections, after Humans and Protoss. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/52 "2013-03-18T13:37:29Z")
OK, so I’ve only just scratched the surface, but I can already say that I _really_ like that ability that brings back all your dead zerglings. Usually, I’m really reluctant to use 'lings, because I’m never sure when I’ll have enough to be overwhelming, as opposed to just enough to see them slaughtered wholesale. Now, though, that’s not an issue: So long as I’m able to do any damage at all with them, they’re never wasted. Just spawn two or three here and there, and sooner or later, I’ve got that overwhelming army, while still having gotten use out of them meanwhile. I haven’t yet checked whether it also works with banelings, but if it does, that’d be super-double-plus awesome. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/53 "2013-03-18T14:30:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so I’ve only just scratched the surface, but I can already say that I _really_ like that ability that brings back all your dead zerglings. I don’t even have this game, but I was very interested in the options to triple your zergling production (actually more, because they pop instantly). Neverending horde! ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/54 "2013-03-18T14:33:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I haven’t yet checked whether it also works with banelings, but if it does, that’d be super-double-plus awesome. Sadly, no. Kerrigan does gain the ability to just summon six banelings with timed life whenever she wants to, though. Whatever else you might say about Blizzard’s tin ear for dialogue and the kind of stupid plot, the single-player HotS campaign is fun. In StarCraft/Brood War the campaign units used the same stats as the multiplayer units even when this didn’t make sense. In Wings of Liberty they broke from that a bit by giving your units a big edge over what they’d be in multiplayer, but in this campaign they’ve totally broken free from any semblance of reasonable balance. In my opinion the game is much stronger for it, since they’ve been able to also have different missions aside from the standard “here’s your base and six peons, now go destroy the eight fortified bases of the other guy” mission or the “here’s ten warriors and a magician now go through the enemy’s installation” mission. Although there’s still some of that, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/55 "2013-03-18T14:43:54Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s like SC1 and Brood War. You can choose to play either, but there’s no mixing and matching in multiplayer. The interface is better this time around though. > > I believe the vast majority of players switched to Brood War after it came out, and I don’t doubt that will happen here. There will likely be a sizable base of WoL players for quite a while though. Great post! Thanks. I can confirm this seems to be the case. My games last night had a slightly longer wait time for finding a player that doesn’t have the expansion. ---
**Author:** ![shijinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@shijinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shijinn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/56 "2013-03-18T16:03:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > … I _really_ like that ability that brings back all your dead zerglings. … the revive is good but i really like the fact that zerglings can hop. i really missed it. i feel kind of cheated that so many skills and choices had to be left out of multiplayer, but i guess balancing would be a nightmare, and scissors-paper-stone before the game even begins would be a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/57 "2013-03-18T16:09:55Z")
> [@shijinn](#): > > the revive is good but i really like the fact that zerglings can hop. i really missed it. i feel kind of cheated that so many skills and choices had to be left out of multiplayer, but i guess balancing would be a nightmare, and scissors-paper-stone before the game even begins would be a bad idea. Something I noticed in the single player campaign is the Terran warhound, which was massively unbalanced. It was taken out of the multiplayer in Beta back in December. There are also medics and science vessels so far, but those were in the WoL campaign, too. Balance changes are remarkably difficult to achieve. I imagine they’ll be tweaking the multiplayer balance for the next several months, though they’ve gotten quite close for the release. Maybe it’s because zerg is my worst race, but I’m finding the HotS campaign to be more difficult than WoL. That may also be because I’m playing through on Hard difficulty. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/58 "2013-03-18T16:53:16Z")
Very ending spoilers [spoiler]No. Blizzard, stop. I was fine with Son Kerrigan going Super Zergian and getting into a kamehameha beam struggle with Narud. But no. No. Kerrigan can NOT fly of her own accord. I’m sorry. The story really wasn’t **that** bad IMO, as long as you’re not taking it seriously it’s certainly entertaining. It’s not “so bad it’s good” even. I think it’s legitimately good if you’re watching it like you’d watch Naruto or something.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/59 "2013-03-18T20:14:07Z")
I just started this game on Saturday and I’m enjoying the hell out of it! I’m still only about…6-10 missions in, so relatively new (just got hydralisks). I’m really happy about all of the weird mutations one can get during the campaign, it will help to extend the life of this a lot more than WOL. ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2013, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620/60 "2013-03-18T22:23:05Z")
I already beat the campaign, here’s some stuff I used that worked well: Zerglings: I went with Swarmlings because having 3x per egg and almost no build time was very useful in a lot of situations. It also makes it easier to make a lot of banelings. Banelings: I went Hunter strain because cliffjumping banelings allow you to backdoor many places. The upgrades also apply to Kerrigan’s summoned banelings, which are VERY useful. Hydralisks: Lurker, but honestly I didn’t use these much. There’s just too many steps to get to a friggin Lurker, compared to other evolutions that had them right out of the gate (zerglings). Hydralisks with the range upgrade were useful enough (queens are even more useful though) Roach: Can’t even remember. I will say Roaches are a handy unit- tough, regen life quickly when burrowed, decent attack. Swarm Host: By far my favorite unit. Mine could deploy flying locusts that could attack air and ground. It is SUPER effective vs Vikings because it would cause the vikings go to into air mode to attack the locusts, protecting my ground units. I love these guys. Mutalisk: Broodlord, though I didn’t really use them. Swarm hosts did the same thing and didn’t have to morph. Vipers seemed really pointless and just…out there. I wished there were options for Overlords and Queens, these units got overlooked. Queens are super useful; if you don’t unlock hydralisks for a while you can get by pretty well with Queens and the best part is they heal everybody. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm/652620.md?page=4)