# Starfleet's Prime Directive: Keep or trash? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 7, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637 "2013-08-07T21:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/61 "2013-08-09T11:32:46Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Let’s see. Extraterrestrials come to Earth today, in 2013. > > They have medical technology that could end AIDS, avian flu, cancer, and every other disease we worry about. > They have agricultural and industrial technology that could end famine, poverty, and pollution. > They have transportation technology that can take us to the stars. > > But you want them to stay away from us, for fear of harming our delicate little culture? > > Screw the Prime Directive. It is patronizing, condescending, and racist. Exactly. I would personally add: Evil. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/62 "2013-08-09T11:59:28Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I would hope you would enjoy the buckets of blood that would be on your hands, because that is a cold and heartless way of thinking. Yeah, I’m not quite understanding the whole “This would be really great for the human race, althoug lots of people would be ground up like hamburger in the process.” way of thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/63 "2013-08-09T12:13:11Z")
But that’s how history works. The modern world would not be possible without the horribleness of the Industrial Revolution, but I still think it was worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/64 "2013-08-09T14:38:04Z")
I have to laugh at the idea a lot of you have that they would just roll in, give us the world and everything would be sweetness and light, because of course, they would be entirely benevolent and wish us only the best. In what Universe does this take place? Because it isn’t this one. Of course, that’s exactly what has happened on Earth, right? I mean, there is no poverty, starvation, want or disease anywhere on Earth anymore, right? We’ve given everyone everywhere a good life just because we don’t like to see them suffer? Let’s try one example. Suddenly all of our computers are obsolete. Therefore no one buys new computers. Companies have no income. They have no use for their current employees, and no means to pay them. However, they still need to spend billions upgrading their factories, which they have to get from somewhere. No one buys computer software, because they’re waiting for the new computers, which may take years or decades to arrive. So no programmers or software development. More millions out of work. No income tax revenue from the large chunk of society just thrown out of work, all of whom will also be unable to pay their bills. And this is just one segment of society affected. Imagine all of them similarly affected. Insanely large unemployment. Economic crash and panic. People rioting in the streets because they can’t pay their bills or eat. Governments with already large debts brought to their knees because not only did their income plunge beyond the nightmares of the worst depression ever, but because everyone is clamoring for more money (that doesn’t exist). Which of course brings Weimar Germany levels of Hyperinflation as governments try to paper over the abyss. Terrorism, looting and riots because of the Ideological and Religious implications of the Aliens and what their imported Philosophies, Ideologies and Religions mean to Earth. Mass suicides because people can’t handle it or are suffering economically. Hell, entire cities burning because people go completely nuts, panic and/or have nothing to lose. I don’t believe a single one of you would think it was great if you were actually living through this nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/65 "2013-08-09T15:43:58Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Trash it unless you’re actually going to show consequences for breaking it. This would be an excellent season-ending twist. The new series starts with Captain Smith leading the Enterprise-F. In the final episode of the first season, the crew is forced to violate the Prime Directive. The admiral promises that there will be consequences. The first episode of the second season begins with Captain _Jones_ commanding the Enterprise-F, and the only mentions of (former) Captain Smith are grumbles from the crew about how they liked him better than the new guy. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/66 "2013-08-09T16:16:59Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Of course, that’s exactly what has happened on Earth, right? I mean, there is no poverty, starvation, want or disease anywhere on Earth anymore, right? We’ve given everyone everywhere a good life just because we don’t like to see them suffer? The only reason this hasn’t happened is because nobody was ever conquered or brought up by a wantless society. Poverty, starvation, want, and most diseases were already eliminated by the Federation. No society on earth has done that and that’s why the analogy doesn’t apply If there are aliens with replicator technology that can create food and medicine for everyone, you can bet that 99% of humans would be for contacting them ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/67 "2013-08-09T16:33:42Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > This would be an excellent season-ending twist. The new series starts with Captain Smith leading the Enterprise-F. In the final episode of the first season, the crew is forced to violate the Prime Directive. The admiral promises that there will be consequences. > > The first episode of the second season begins with Captain _Jones_ commanding the Enterprise-F, and the only mentions of (former) Captain Smith are grumbles from the crew about how they liked him better than the new guy. I’m of course picturing this with Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones. Coming back around: would the folks in this thread who are in favor of the Prime Directive in general be okay with an End-Of-The-World exception? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/68 "2013-08-09T16:45:21Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > If there are aliens with replicator technology that can create food and medicine for everyone, you can bet that 99% of humans would be for contacting them Well sure, if they come up with technology that could only exist in an alternate universe, then rock on! After all, that’s the same universe where things get zapped with weapons and simple disappear rather than exploding, melting, bleeding, etc. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/69 "2013-08-09T16:46:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I’m of course picturing this with Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones. Jones would be the better captain, but Smith the more entertaining character. Like Picard and Kirk in different seasons of the same show. Could be a good series. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/70 "2013-08-09T16:49:05Z")
I would keep it, but allow it to be broken in certain extraordinary situations. Sort of like the way police shooting are treated. (Or, for the more cynical, the way police shootings should be treated.) IOW, if a captain violates the prime directive, they must inform Starfleet immediately and report to a starbase ASAP, where they will be relieved of command, replaced temporarily by their XO. There will be a hearing, and if the captain is cleared, they will be immediate returned to command. I’m not sure what bright lines the hearing could consider. Certainly the obliteration of a civilization should count, and maybe severe disaster: Something like an asteroid strike. Ordinary tsunami’s and hurricanes would not count. However I’d also like to see some room for captain’s discretion. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/71 "2013-08-09T16:55:32Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well sure, if they come up with technology that could only exist in an alternate universe, then rock on! After all, that’s the same universe where things get zapped with weapons and simple disappear rather than exploding, melting, bleeding, etc. They were burning holes through folks in _DS9_ and _Enterprise_. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/72 "2013-08-09T18:09:41Z")
I just came in here to say that every time I see the subject line, I keep reading it as “[Starfish Prime](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfish_Prime) Directive: Keep or trash?” I’m still not sure how I’d answer. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/73 "2013-08-09T18:22:29Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They were burning holes through folks in _DS9_ and _Enterprise_. 🙂 Yet the technology of seatbelts will have been lost by then. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/74 "2013-08-09T18:43:29Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well sure, if they come up with technology that could only exist in an alternate universe, then rock on! After all, that’s the same universe where things get zapped with weapons and simple disappear rather than exploding, melting, bleeding, etc. Which is what we’re talking about, right? ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/75 "2013-08-09T18:57:31Z")
Sorry, just skimmed the responses. Who is actually “for” keeping the prime directive? ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/76 "2013-08-09T19:01:01Z")
I am. I think the ‘scrap it’ argument reads a lot like Kipling. _Take up the starfarer’s burden, ye dare not stoop to less-_ Let them develop undisturbed, I say. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/77 "2013-08-09T19:01:21Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Sorry, just skimmed the responses. Who is actually “for” keeping the prime directive? It’s not a poll, and I’m too lazy to summarize things for you, so you’ll have to read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/78 "2013-08-09T19:28:59Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The only reason this hasn’t happened is because nobody was ever conquered or brought up by a wantless society. Poverty, starvation, want, and most diseases were already eliminated by the Federation. No society on earth has done that and that’s why the analogy doesn’t apply. Exactly. People who grow up in such a society who contact us aren’t going to be looking to profit off of us, because they aren’t interested in profiting off of _anything._ Profit is not part of their worldview. If they are friendly they’d likely share their technology under the simple theory of “why not?” And if they aren’t friendly, whatever reason they attacked us for wouldn’t be about profit either. People from such a society just wouldn’t think in business terms. They wouldn’t attack us for profit any more than we would attack another nation because the hunting there is good; we aren’t hunter-gatherers, they aren’t profiteers. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/79 "2013-08-09T19:35:54Z")
Why not? Self-protection, for one thing. Species ripe for uplift are top predators in their food chain. Giving them technology means we need to control them to keep ourselves safe. Plus, why not let species develop on their own? Why interfere? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637/80 "2013-08-09T19:35:54Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > If an E.T. civilization is even contemplating the Prime Directive, then our odds of avoiding colonization are pretty good. If they are aggressive, then we get colonized, regardless of what directives they may or may not have on the books. I’m sure they would screw things up in a different way. For instance, imagine the aliens saying “You still believe in tribal deities? No offense, but really? I need to get the anthropologists here right away!” Personally I’d be fine with this, but I think it would cause a lot of people problems. > [@](#): > > Short-term, we won’t contribute. > Long-term, why wouldn’t we be able to contribute? And when the best and the brightest humans go off to the alien worlds and never come back - which is exactly what most of the people sitting around me at work did do? There are tons of unintended consequences, which even we can’t predict and which aliens certainly wouldn’t be able to predict. It is just safer to avoid the problem until it becomes inevitable through star travel. > [@](#): > > It’s good to learn from one’s own mistakes. > It’s better to learn from other peoples’ mistakes. True, but history tells us we suck at doing this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starfleets-prime-directive-keep-or-trash/665637.md?page=5)