# Stargate Atlantis -- a quibble (minor Spoiler) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 18, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687 "2004-07-18T15:54:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/21 "2004-07-20T20:59:38Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I hate to ask this, but could somebody give me a summery on the Mythos of this show? > > I saw the movie, maybe a single episode of SG-1 and the Premiere of Atlantis. I understand the concept of the stargate, but what’s the deal with the ancients? How do they fit in with the Aliens from the movie? Basically, the Ancients are the folks who built the Stargate and some other random bits of high-techery lying around the galaxy (galaxies, I guess). They were super-highly advanced. Despite being super higly advanced, they got their butts kicked by the Wraith and apparently had some pressing reason to leave our galaxy as well (a plague or something equally implausible). I believe that they later on Ascended into creatures of pure energy and adopted a pretty much hands-off policy. Most of the high-tech used by the Goa’uld (bad guys) was adopted from the Ancients or other races. ``` There are a few other extremely technically advanced races around, although none seem to be quite at the level of the Ancients. These are the Asgard (the Greys), the Knox (sp?), the Ashai (sp?) [bad guys], and one other race whose name I forget but it doesn't matter because they were wiped out or enslaved by the Goa'uld. I don't believe that any of them were contemporaries of the Ancients, but I could be wrong. ``` I don’t think there’s an actual consistent mythology wrapped around the Ancients – it was pretty clear last season that they were making up this “Lost City” thing as they went along ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/22 "2004-07-20T21:12:47Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > I thought the chair and drones were left overs. When Atlantis took off, it looked like they left a little spire back, and that’s what was still on Antarctica. Maybe I just wasn’t paying close enough attention. From what I gather, the city that flew off was probably located somewhere in the (wait for it) Atlantic - where it is traditionally reported (via Homer et al.) to have been. They left a stargate (in addition to the one in Egypt) buried in Antarctica, as an outpost. That’s why there was some leftover technology. That’s also the gate they returned to when they got their asses kicked by the Wraiths. I imagine a few of them migrated north to Europe to chat with the Greeks and see how this new spawn of humanity was doing. > [@](#): > > Still, that technology is much more effective than shoulder mounted rocket launchers, so I still don’t see how a society that created the “chair of death” as you put it got it’s ass kicked so easily when a handful of marines seems to be able to handle themselves rather well. Depends. An energy shield that defends against energy-based weapons may not have any protection against mass-based weapons like an RPG (or so my pseudo-science brain tells me). Certainly, it’s a stretch. But personally, I try not to think about it too much, and I like the idea that poking someone in the eye is the last thing the Wraiths expect. It’s very _Predator_. > [@](#): > > I never saw that episode, but it seems rather silly that they couldn’t back track their weapony to basic projectiles. Yeah, I agree. But this is a race more concerned with making sure O’Neil stays alive, since he’s the key to the future viability of their species. Jack is apparently the “next link” in our evolution, or at least possesses DNA that suggests that - the Asgardians are actually a bunch of clones, as they’ve evolved past the ability to reproduce. Yeah, yeah, I know. That’s the same line of reasoning they use to explain their inability to comprehend basic physical projectiles. > [@HPL](#): > > I hate to ask this, but could somebody give me a summery on the Mythos of this show? I’ll try, but my chronology is completely out of whack - I never know what episodes are new, and which are 7 years old. **Good Guys:** Us Asgard - little green men, just like the traditional alien abduction folk. Very advanced. Head guy is Thor (yup, that Thor). Tok Ra - The Rebel Alliance of the Stargate universe. They’ve defected from the Goa’ould and run raids and such. Look like us, sound like us, have worms coming out of their bellies (very unlike us). **Bad Guys:** Goa’ould - Look like us. Don’t sound like us (deep, scary voices). Utilize the Egyptian god mythos to enslave, torture, and intimidate thousands of star systems across the galaxy. Immortal, due to the worms living in their bellies. Replicators - They’re sentient robots. Think part Borg, part bug (Burg?). They eat everything, and multiply like little metallic rabbits. In the last episode, they were recently shown creating a naked Carter clone. Bullets knock 'em all to hell, apparently. Energy just feeds 'em. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/23 "2004-07-20T21:17:11Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Basically, the Ancients are the folks who built the Stargate and some other random bits of high-techery lying around the galaxy (galaxies, I guess). They were super-highly advanced. Despite being super higly advanced, they got their butts kicked by the Wraith and apparently had some pressing reason to leave our galaxy as well (a plague or something equally implausible). I believe that they later on Ascended into creatures of pure energy and adopted a pretty much hands-off policy. > > Most of the high-tech used by the Goa’uld (bad guys) was adopted from the Ancients or other races. > > ``` > There are a few other extremely technically advanced races around, although none seem to be quite at the level of the Ancients. These are the Asgard (the Greys), the Knox (sp?), the Ashai (sp?) [bad guys], and one other race whose name I forget but it doesn't matter because they were wiped out or enslaved by the Goa'uld. I don't believe that any of them were contemporaries of the Ancients, but I could be wrong. > > ``` > > I don’t think there’s an actual consistent mythology wrapped around the Ancients – it was pretty clear last season that they were making up this “Lost City” thing as they went along So how did RA from the movie fit in with all of this? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/24 "2004-07-20T21:21:45Z")
Ra was a system lord (or maybe he had a bit more power). He was in charge of terrorizing a group of planets, including the one the original SG1 encountered in the movie. I believe he blew up in the movie, didn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/25 "2004-07-20T21:37:32Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > I never saw that episode, but it seems rather silly that they couldn’t back track their weapony to basic projectiles. If I remember correctly, it wasn’t so much that the Asgard couldn’t manufacture projectile weapons, but rather that their thinking had developed in such a way that projectile weapons wouldn’t occur to them as useful. That’s why Thor came to Earth - he was looking for a human perspective, to suggest something the Asgard hadn’t thought of before. Maybe the Ancients ran into a similar problem in dealing with the Wraith? The hologram that McKay and Beckett find does say that the Ancients were unprepared to deal with the Wraith, never having encountered another species as capable as themselves… maybe the Ancients just choked. On preview… **Munch** mentions the Goa’uld utilizing the Egyptian mythos, but we do get to see figures from other mythologies - there’s Ba’al (Babylonian?), Chronos (Greek), Camulus (Celtic), Wu (Chinese), and a number of others whose names I can’t remember just now (a Hindu and a Japanese goddess, for example). ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/26 "2004-07-20T21:44:56Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Ra was a system lord (or maybe he had a bit more power). He was in charge of terrorizing a group of planets, including the one the original SG1 encountered in the movie. I believe he blew up in the movie, didn’t he? Yeah, Ra got blowed up good at the end of the movie. Out of curiosity, isn’t the tv series supposed to run a different timeline or something like that? I mean, according to the movie, Ra was the last of dying breed, no? And from what he looked like before he blew up, the Goa’ould seemed more like the little green men of myth than worm-like creatures. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/27 "2004-07-20T21:55:34Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > Yeah, Ra got blowed up good at the end of the movie. Out of curiosity, isn’t the tv series supposed to run a different timeline or something like that? I mean, according to the movie, Ra was the last of dying breed, no? And from what he looked like before he blew up, the Goa’ould seemed more like the little green men of myth than worm-like creatures. I think there was a fair amount of retconning done there. But it’s the same timeline - Daniel remains the common character, and they kept the “those bastards stole my mail-order bride!” story line for several years. ---
**Author:** ![YPOD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/e99b99/32.png) [@YPOD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YPOD)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2004, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/28 "2004-07-20T23:59:19Z")
The Replicators created a naked Carter clone? I’m going over to their side. ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/29 "2004-07-21T01:02:02Z")
You have Fifth to thank for that, **YPOD**. But bear in mind that he’s not likely to want to share. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mithgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Mithgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mithgard)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/30 "2004-07-21T04:48:58Z")
> [@El Elvis Rojo](#): > > Yeah, Ra got blowed up good at the end of the movie. Out of curiosity, isn’t the tv series supposed to run a different timeline or something like that? I mean, according to the movie, Ra was the last of dying breed, no? And from what he looked like before he blew up, the Goa’ould seemed more like the little green men of myth than worm-like creatures. I thought that Ra was able to escape via the stargate (i could be mistaken) As for Atlantis, I finally had a chance to check it out today. Overall, i’d have to say that I liked it, barring any sudden weird twists, its gonna work I think. I also like the fact that now you have a multinational ‘group’ of people coming from various countries around the world…that’s always good. Having said that, the only thing that really bugs me is Dr. Weir. I cant help but think of that HORRID actress from Dog Eat Dog and who stars now in North Shore. For some reason there are huge similarities between those two ppl for me…ughh…and I hate that (I guess Ill have to learn to look past that :P) bring on episode 2 😃 ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/31 "2004-07-21T20:06:40Z")
> [@Mithgard](#): > > I thought that Ra was able to escape via the stargate (i could be mistaken) Unless that’s a retcon in the t.v. series that I missed (which is very, very likely), the end of **Stargate** pretty much shows him go kaboom. He was in orbit, and the stargate was on the planet’s surface, so unless they pulled an old **Radar Men From the Moon** on us, he’s been toast for quite some time. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/32 "2004-07-21T21:08:43Z")
Wasn’t Dr. Weir blonde at the end of last season? Did they decide she looked too confusingly much like Carter and have her dye her hair? Ra is dead, dead, dead. Unfortunately, he had in-laws. The movie had it that the Goa’uld were a dying race and Ra was one of the last of his kind. For the series, that didn’t really work, because then who would SG-1 blow up every week? So the Goa’uld now are an ancient, somewhat decadent race who after a period of recent expansion, seem to be decreasing in numbers, mostly because the System Lords seem to have discovered that Goa’uld larvae make a nummy treat (and because SG-1 keeps blowing them up every episode). Curiously, after every System Lord gets blowed up, a new more powerful one takes its place. It’s sort of like Doom – the Bosses get bigger and bigger after every level. ---
**Author:** ![sunfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/96bed5/32.png) [@sunfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sunfish)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/33 "2004-07-21T21:34:48Z")
The original Dr. Weir was played by Jessica Steen; the new one is played by Torri Higginson. I don’t know why they didn’t keep the first one - maybe she wasn’t available for the role long-term. The thought of wanting a brunette instead of another blonde did cross my mind, but if that were the only issue, I suppose the producers could have asked Steen to dye her hair. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/34 "2004-07-21T21:45:20Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > So the Goa’uld now are an ancient, somewhat decadent race who after a period of recent expansion, seem to be decreasing in numbers, mostly because the System Lords seem to have discovered that Goa’uld larvae make a nummy treat (and because SG-1 keeps blowing them up every episode). The Goa’ulds are eating their own young? When did this happen? I haven’t seen this in the series. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/35 "2004-07-21T22:10:59Z")
> [@Amp](#): > > The Goa’ulds are eating their own young? When did this happen? I haven’t seen this in the series. We saw this happen in the episode _Summit_, in which Daniel attended a big System Lords diplomatic function. As for retconning Ra’s story…well, he’s still dead. The rest of the odd changes I attribute to Daniel’s then-shaky grasp of the language and the Goa’uld penchant for legend-building. They seem to me to have the mother of all inferiority complexes (no doubt caused by being slimy, thieving, parasitic, snakes-in-the-head), and to overcompensate by posing as gods and acting like stereotypical, scenery-chewing, cliche-spewing, megalomaniacal archvillains. Besides, the movie was pretty lame. I prefer to ignore it. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/36 "2004-07-21T22:13:10Z")
> [@RikWriter](#): > > What’s not to understand? They look cool, exotic and futuristic. Never mind the fact that the SG teams would be better off with something along the lines of an M4 firing the new 6.8mm SPC round, it LOOKS cool… I though the M4 fired the 5.56 mm round. You are talking about the M-16 varient, right? Or is this a new M-4 that I’m not familar with? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@El\_Elvis\_Rojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Elvis_Rojo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/37 "2004-07-21T22:27:02Z")
Is there a difference between the Goa’uld that stick out of a person’s chest, and teh Goa’uld that attatch themselves to the base of a person’s brain? Most episodes I’ve seen always have x-rays showing a Goa’uld stuck in the skull, but I remember Tylk’s came out of his chest, as did a few others. And just out of curiosity, what are the System Lords? Are they just really strong Goa’uld, or something else? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2004, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/38 "2004-07-21T22:33:14Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I though the M4 fired the 5.56 mm round. You are talking about the M-16 varient, right? Or is this a new M-4 that I’m not familar with? There is a grass-roots movement underway, mostly in the Special Operations community, to get the military to adapt a new round for the M4 called the 6.8mm SPC. It’s designed to retain the penetration of the current 5.56 while adding more stopping power to the round, yet retain the same magazines, stocks and receivers. Theoretically, all you have to replace is the barrel and chamber. The heavier bullet weight would seem to be a good idea against the Wraith. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/39 "2004-07-22T00:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Is there a difference between the Goa’uld that stick out of a person’s chest, and teh Goa’uld that attatch themselves to the base of a person’s brain? Most episodes I’ve seen always have x-rays showing a Goa’uld stuck in the skull, but I remember Tylk’s came out of his chest, as did a few others. The stomach Goa’ulds are incubating babies. Tealc isn’t controlled by his snake, but it maintains his immune system and he can’t live without it, just like all the other slaves. A grown Goa’uld will attach to the base of the brain and take over its host. The System Lords are the strongest Goa’ulds (biggest armies and so on), who are always fighting each other for power. Sort of like a galaxy-sized game of Risk, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687/40 "2004-07-22T15:16:24Z")
> [@dangermom](#): > > The stomach Goa’ulds are incubating babies. Tealc isn’t controlled by his snake, but it maintains his immune system and he can’t live without it, just like all the other slaves. Nope. The amazing blue goop keeps him and Braytak (sp?) going. Both are snake free now. The invention of the goop was a major plot arc and offered the possibility of the Goa’uld losing their grip on their Jaffa fighting forces. But with the rise of the Asgard relationship with Earth, the rise of the rebel Jaffa and the Tokrah, the Goa’uld were looking like a pretty weak bad guy (especially given how many System Lords we had killed). So they contrived a split between the Tokah, rebel Jaffa and Earth to try and bring back the earlier “us against the universe” feel. Atlantis has a similar problem: Wraith \> Ancients \> Goa’uld \> Earth so in theory if the Wraith are the species who drove off the Ancients, they should wipe the floor with a small Earth expeditionary force. Instead, Stingers, assualt rifles and Alien shuttle craft flown by pilots who barely understand them seem to act as force multipliers and they rack up an impressive kill to loss rate. Huh? My only thought is that the Wraith are not actually the species who drove off the Ancients, or otherwise it should have been a Thor’s Hammer sort of fight with the Ancients mopping the floor with the Wraith with those spiffy yellow drones (remember what they did to Anubis’ fleet). But if both the Ancients and the Species that drove them off left, you get a very B5 sort of vibe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stargate-atlantis-a-quibble-minor-spoiler/255687.md?page=3)