Yeah. Kind of says something right there. Have you considered why there is so much distrust of the CCP and its motives? We are talking about a government that has now banned fruit imports from Vietnam because they claim it’s infected with the new Covid variant, however, so over-reaction for either political gain or just because they are a paranoid authoritarian regime seems to be how they roll.
Huh? Debris tends to break up and spread out, while a controlled launch is, well, controlled. Whether it’s reasonable is going to be in the eyes of the beholder, and I’d say that the earlier answer that the CCP’s space agency has a different view of what constitutes risk is reasonable verse what SpaceX considers risk.
Of course. And it is because most people only ever hear that kind of story.
I recall a thread where someone made the claim of pro-China whitewashing in the media. I was able to provide numerous examples of negative China stories on a single day, and the other poster had to fish around the complete history for even a couple of headlines that sounded somewhat neutral until you read the actual content of the article.
And I guess I need to say this every time: I criticize China a lot. Over Xinjiang, over the Zhengzhou flood, over Hong Kong.
And, in this context, I criticize them for blowing up one of their satellites and making thousands of pieces of space junk (though it should be noted that the US has done this too).
The difference between you and I is that I am willing to entertain that reality is nuanced and China is not always the moustache twirling villain.
Good example!
For the last two years I maintained that China was telling the truth about low case numbers and you and others criticized me for that. One poster even implied I was working for the CCP.
Now, all of the news media, at least here in Europe, 100% concedes that China’s case numbers are indeed tiny. Rather than admit error (and, like I say, that news stories about China can actually be nuanced) the story has moved on to how extreme China’s measures are to keep the case numbers low.
And you, dutifully, have bought straight into it. As long as we’re criticizing China, it’s all good.
Come on, this is flailing about to support a conclusion you had already come to.
At the point where debris is being tracked it’s already done all the breaking up it is likely to do and is just following a predictable path. Whereas something being launched still has accelerations being applied as it gets on course.
To anyone being objective here it’s pretty obvious that coming within X km of a piece of junk is less risky than X km of something still making course corrections.
The conclusion I already came to was that it was a difference in risk, so is reasonable. The only real difference is that I think it’s reasonable to scrutinize what the CCP spouts because of the fact that if their lips are moving it’s a good chance they are lying.
Only if you don’t trust those making the course correction. Sorry, but I think it’s you who’s stretching here. Debris, by its very nature, can be chaotic as it spreads out, collides with other junk, and is acted on by other objects or forces. It’s why it’s all tracked closely with radar and not just tagged and forgotten about. Small pieces especially can be a bitch to follow.
That said, I ALREADY ACCEPTED THE RISK ARGUMENT, as I think it’s quite plausible. I think the CCP made a bigger deal of this than it was, even if they did think it was a risk, but that’s par for the course with them.
I never did this, so not sure why you are bringing this up. Unless it’s your assertion that I was the one who made this claim, I’m unsure why you are quoting me here and I’d appreciate it if you either cite where I claimed this or retract it.
Oh, well, if the European news agencies concede that (based on what, exactly) it MUST be correct.
As for the last part, you are right…as long as it’s critical of the CCP (not China) it’s all good, as I think a continuing spotlight on these assholes is as warranted as the continual focus this board puts on the US and everything bad it does. Just doing my part.
Blowing up a satellite might qualify as moustache-twirling villainy. Making unnecessary maneuvers just so they can complain about it internationally, though, isn’t villainy; it’s politics. It probably qualifies as dirty politics, but there’s still a lot of daylight between “dirty politics” and “villainy”.
Just for the record, I never said nor thought that this was an example of CCP ‘villainy’…I thought it was suspicious and was leaning more towards your ‘dirty politics’ than anything. Not everything they do is ‘moustache-twirling villainy’, but I am suspicious of anything they say or claim, especially so publicly…which is why I started the OP. I know my own biases so it’s good to have a sanity check such as this to explore other reasons why they might do something…and, as I said, I find the differing levels of risk (as well as dirty politics ) to be a compelling argument and motive, coupled with their own interests.
“scrutinize” is fine, but some of your earlier statements like “I bet the Chinese…” seemed to be going further than that.
The lips moving = lying thing, I know you’re just speaking rhetorically but I think it’s worth saying in this situation that it is demonstrably not the case. I lived in China for 8 years and 99% of CCP announcements were boring and true information.
But people who have only seen China through the lens of Western news often, genuinely, think of China as being like the guardian of the door to hell who must always tell a lie.
It’s not about “trust”.
The very nature of course correction implies something that is off course whereas a piece of debris flying through space is going to follow a predictable path. The idea that it is going to suddenly break up now is purely a post hoc rationalization, it’s just not likely at all.
All I accused you of was that in the threads where we discussed Chinese case numbers I definitely recall you were among those criticizing me and implying I was being gullible.
The claim that I was a CCP agent or something I think was DrDeth.
I’m going to assume that this is a joke.
In any case, several US media outlets like CNN have started to imply that China was telling the truth about case numbers. It’s just I haven’t seen any articles / reports yet that explicitly say that.
As I say, in Europe, the story has become “Look how oppressive China has been to keep covid at near zero!”. In US, as far as China is mentioned in relation to covid, it’s just about them being secretive about the Wuhan lab or whatever. Case numbers aren’t mentioned either way.
Personally, I want to get the best view on reality that I can, that’s why I found the Straight Dope articles in the first place.
I don’t just jump to gut feeling conclusions and I think the world would be a better place if more people felt that way.
Yep.
Again note that the US also belongs to the illustrious club of nations stupid enough to have already done this.
It’s not very plausible IMO. But anyway, my main point was that we’re scratching around for the *real* reason that China maneuvered their space station when we wouldn’t be doing this for other nations.
