# Stars on the flag -- yet another goof **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [October 30, 2001, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-on-the-flag-yet-another-goof/90490 "2001-10-30T09:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-on-the-flag-yet-another-goof/90490/1 "2001-10-30T09:16:31Z")
Dear Cecil: A thread in GQ referenced the column [How will stars be arranged on the flag if the U.S. ever has 51 states?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_303.html) in which you proclaim > [@](#): > > Even stranger was the 33-star flag that flew over Fort Sumter at the start of the Civil War in 1861 (actually there were 34 states at the time–they weren’t big on details then). Cec, are you some kind of commie? Every true-blooded American knows that stars are added the flag only on July 4.[sup]1[/sup] Kansas, the 34th state, joined the Union in January of 1861, less than three months before the start of the Civil War. Its star would have been added later that year. The 33-star flag was correct at Fort Sumter. Sheesh! For a guy who claims to know everything, you sure booted this one! Regards, dtilque [sup]1[/sup] In fact, Songbird points out that the July 4 addition is required by the Flag Act of 1818 in this article: [What’s the symbolism of the colors in the U.S. flag?"](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mflag.html) ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-on-the-flag-yet-another-goof/90490/2 "2001-10-30T14:02:43Z")
Eh, I’m having trouble following your quibble here, Dtilque. Kansas became the 34th state in January, 1861. Fort Sumter was April, 1861. The 34th star would have been added in July, 1861. So the Fort Sumter flag, in April, still had only 33 stars. What’s wrong with what Cecil said? I’m missing something. Are you quibbling about Cecil opining that it was “strange”? 😕 Cecil thinks many things are strange. How exactly did he “boot this one”? Pic of the Ft. Sumter flag–he’s right, it does look like an “indescribable mess”. 😃 [http://www.nps.gov/fosu/sb/fosuflag/](http://www.nps.gov/fosu/sb/fosuflag/) > [@](#): > > THE FLAGS OF FORT SUMTER > The historic flags that fly over Fort Sumter today represent the flags that flew over the fort during the Civil War (1861-1865). The following pictures and descriptions of those flags as well as four others will enhance your understanding of Civil War flags. > > The 33-star U.S. Flag > At the onset of the Civil War, the official United States flag had 33 stars on its blue field, representing even those states which had seceded. After the battle for Fort Sumter in April, 1861, President Abraham Lincoln had to decide whether to leave all 33 stars on the U.S. Flag or to remove the stars of the seceded states. Since Lincoln had chosen the preservation of the Union as his mission, all 33 stars remained on the flag. The flag depicted here is a photograph of the flag flying at Fort Sumter during the opening battle of the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-on-the-flag-yet-another-goof/90490/3 "2001-10-30T15:48:46Z")
Duck Duck Goose, I think dtilque was disagreeing with Cecil’s sarcastic comment “they weren’t big on details then”, which might seem to imply that a correct flag would have had 34 stars, whereas dtilque says that it was correct for the flag to have 33 stars, even though there were 34 states, since the flag would only have been changed on 4 July. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-on-the-flag-yet-another-goof/90490/4 "2001-10-30T17:58:17Z")
Thank you Arnold, that’s exactly the point I was making. Cecil’s humor was misplaced and in fact totally wrong. They _were_ big on details then which is exactly why the flag _didn’t_ have 34 stars. Besides, it gave me a chance to call Cecil a commie, which is not an opportunity to be wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-on-the-flag-yet-another-goof/90490/5 "2001-10-30T18:56:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > They _were_ big on details then which is exactly why the flag _didn’t_ have 34 stars. Cite please? i.e. proof that on 3 July a 33-star flag was flown over Fort Sumter, and on 4 July it was replaced with a 34-star flag? Cecil may well be right in that people were lax about flag protocol in 1861. I fail to see how you have disproved that statement. So there! ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-on-the-flag-yet-another-goof/90490/6 "2001-10-30T19:49:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Arnold Winkelried \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > > They _were_ big on details then which is exactly why the flag _didn’t_ have 34 stars. > > Cite please? i.e. proof that on 3 July a 33-star flag was flown over Fort Sumter, and on 4 July it was replaced with a 34-star flag? Cecil may well be right in that people were lax about flag protocol in 1861. I fail to see how you have disproved that statement. So there! Since Fort Sumter was in Rebel hands by July of 1861, they wouldn’t have flown either flag there. While I can’t prove it, in general I would expect that Army posts would be fairly strict about flag protocol in those days. Some frontier posts may not get the word in time, but Fort Sumter was hardly that. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2001, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-on-the-flag-yet-another-goof/90490/7 "2001-10-30T22:29:54Z")
According to my NPS link, Fort Sumter never did fly a 34-star flag. First there was the 33-star U.S. flag in April 1861, then there were two different Confederate Flags, the “Stars and Bars” and then the “Stainless Banner”. Then in February, 1865, after the Confederate evacuation of Charleston, the 35-star U.S. flag was raised over Fort Sumter. Is this a bar bet of some kind?