# Stars that got better at playing their instruments after they got famous **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [January 18, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993 "2022-01-18T13:51:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/41 "2022-02-01T14:34:18Z")
I consider vocals an instrument… Jim Morrison… You can hear their 1965 demo on YouTube, and even 1966 at the London Fog… Jim was great in the studio, and had GREAT vibrato, as well as being able to sing a ballad, or to sing something with more teeth. He also had good rhythm with the phrasing, and certain pauses/halts, as well as using more tracks to even have a dialogue/conversation, say, on the song, “The Soft Parade” (probably best to read the lyrics), or even the whisper (last thing he did with The Doors) track on top of the regular vocal on “Riders On The Storm”. I’ve never seen a non-singer turn into one of the best in 18 months like that. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/42 "2022-02-01T15:07:31Z")
> [@MortSahlFan](#): > > I consider vocals an instrument… To my ears, Ray Davies improved substantially as a vocalist after the Kinks’ early hits like “You Really Got Me.” For that matter, it’s probably safe to say that Ray and Dave both improved as guitarists. On those early hits, a session guitarist was used because Ray couldn’t sing and play rhythm guitar at the same time. And Dave’s primitive style worked well on “You Really Got Me,” but at age 17 I doubt he had the chops to come up wth all the guitar parts of all the Kinks’ later work. ---
**Author:** ![MortSahlFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3bc359/32.png) [@MortSahlFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MortSahlFan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/43 "2022-02-01T15:24:51Z")
That’s one band who’s discography I need to check out… I like “See My Friends”, “Rock n’ Roll Fantasy” and a few others. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/44 "2022-02-01T16:09:33Z")
I think the majority of musicians I listen to got noticeable better as players after they got famous. But I listen to lots of Prog and Art Rock. Almost every band and artist in those genres I know got much more inventive, groundbreaking, complex, and technically proficient after the start of their career (and regressed again, with enough time and albums under their belt). From basic blues rock etc. into something that real musos need to woodshed to replicate. Even guys like Freddie Mercury were much better singers some distance into their famous career. Then there’s the masses of veteran musicians who state strongly in interviews that they think they play better now than ever before, subjective as it is. So, I guess I completely disagree with the premise. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/45 "2022-02-01T18:11:44Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I didn’t include him because he was already an accomplished drummer when he joined the band. I think he was the only professional musician at the time the band was formed. His early drumming isn’t particularly complex, but it’s fast and solid. One of the things that really opened my eyes to how good Ringo was, was listening to this recording of “I Saw Her Standing There” with Pete Best on drums: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZSWUBFiKSNI/hqdefault.jpg "The Beatles - I Saw Her Standing There (With Pete Best)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSWUBFiKSNI) The song itself is much more raw in this recording (they were obviously still working it out, and there’s one point where they mess up the words), so maybe it’s not quite a fair comparison. But if you listen to this alongside the more familiar single version, with Ringo’s drumming, there’s a huge difference. Pete really does nothing with it. He keeps the beat, and adds one little fill right before the guitar solo, and that’s about it. Ringo’s drumming is much more active and exciting, with a strong, driving beat that propels the song forward. He throws in fills almost every time there’s a break in the vocals, and it helps keep up the energy and make the song more engaging. Listening to this was the first time that I understood how much Ringo added to the band. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2022, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/46 "2022-02-01T18:22:03Z")
Agree on the drumming, but I really dig that version with (I assume) John playing the lead guitar parts on harmonica. Like a lot of predominantly rhythm guitarists, John Lennon is really underrated as an instrumentalist. ---
**Author:** ![alovem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@alovem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alovem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/47 "2022-02-03T17:13:26Z")
How about Pete Townshend? I haven’t listened to him or The Who all that much, but I had to take notice when I first heard his playing on Eminence Front. ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2022, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/48 "2022-02-03T18:25:20Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > Like a lot of predominantly rhythm guitarists, John Lennon is really underrated as an instrumentalist. Yes. He was in fact a _very_ good rhythm guitarist. ---
**Author:** ![xtenkfarpl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/c2a13f/32.png) [@xtenkfarpl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xtenkfarpl)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/49 "2022-02-20T16:13:50Z")
I think I have read that the lead part on “You Really Got Me.” wasn’t Dave at all, it was done by a session musician. Jimmy Page, possibly? ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/50 "2022-02-20T16:34:46Z")
That’s something I’ve seen argued before. The best evidence I’ve seen that someone else played the solo on the record was a claim that Dave played the same solo every night, and it wasn’t the one on the record. Though, I haven’t looked up live performances to find out if the claim is true…looks up a couple of live versions…nope, that claim doesn’t hold up. He doesn’t play the solo from the record - it’s usually in the same style, but it’s also definitely not the same solo every night. And really, since that solo isn’t too hard to do a version of, I’m kind of inclined to think he probably played the one on the record himself and doesn’t want to do the same solo every night. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2022, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/51 "2022-02-20T16:57:50Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > I think I have read that the lead part on “You Really Got Me.” wasn’t Dave at all, it was done by a session musician. Jimmy Page, possibly? Here’s what Shel Talmy, the producer, had to say (on a Facebook post): > [@](#): > > CORRECTION TO BELOW: Dave has just informed me that his memory is that Ray DID play rhythm guitar on the hit single version of YRGM. Jimmy of course was on the subsequent album sessions. Sixty years has gone by, after all LOL! What’s for certain, the lead guitar was Dave and Dave alone. > > WHO REALLY PLAYED THE SOLO ON ‘YOU REALLY GOT ME’ > > I’m posting this instead of my usual vignette, as it appears that the ugly rumor of Dave Davies not playing the guitar solo and crunching chords on ‘You Really Got Me’, has reared its ugly head-- yet again. > > This time, it comes from an engineer/producer that should know better, who said in a recent podcast interview (and which excerpts from have been repeated on [ultimate-guitar.com](http://ultimate-guitar.com/?fbclid=IwAR10DoSKX_RPNzncoeuLIn0ncjEJlVfbwmp65SA5YcHsf1R8AUaJMxktFnE)) that it was “probably” Jimmy Page who played all the parts. > > By now, I must have repeated over a thousand times that yes, Jimmy, who was one of my favorite guitarists and who I employed on many productions, was on the YRGM session, but strictly only as a rhythm guitarist. This was because Ray Davies, who normally played rhythm, wanted to concentrate on his singing. > > All those iconic guitar parts you hear on YRGM are solely and exclusively the work of Dave Davies, who I’ve also said myriad times, is one of the most underrated rock guitarists in the music biz! > > If you need further evidence, listen to the clip on my page of The Kinks playing live on the legendary TV show “Ready Steady Go”, in the same month that the single was released – and then tell me that the guitar solo is not the work of the same player as the record! > > Additionally, Jimmy Page has acknowledged in several interviews that he did not perform the solo, and that it was indeed Dave Davies’ brilliant playing on YRGM. > > I really hope this puts this recurring BS once and for all down the toilet, where it belongs. > > Please do share, and maybe I won’t get word yet again about these outrageous lies that are perpetrated by “-----” ie please fill in your name of choice! ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/52 "2022-03-03T01:34:07Z")
I remember watching a documentary about Prince that early in his career, a producer (?) told him that he had everything to be a star but the guitar skills. So Prince went away for 2 years and came back a virtuoso. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993/53 "2022-03-04T22:34:27Z")
David Gilmour’s early playing for Pink Floyd was pretty simplistic. Just common major chords and simple scale runs. I’d put it around Meddle where he really accelerated his technical chops and range, though that was still mostly effects-driven the seeds of his mind melting solos and expressive playing we’re taking off. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stars-that-got-better-at-playing-their-instruments-after-they-got-famous/957993.md?page=2)