# Starship Troopers could never have been a good movie (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 11, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988 "2013-10-11T15:45:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/41 "2013-10-14T13:51:12Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > A minority, and objectively wrong. Everything Verhoeven presents as being wrong with Starship Troopers is his own fabrication. He’s a coward who cannot present his argument without creating an army of strawmen to rail against. Nothing objective about it, it comes down to opinions. I think the book is crap and the film is brilliant. You think the opposite. Neither of us is objectively right, we just have our opinions based on what we personally enjoy. There is a valid argument that the film isn’t a film version of the book due to so many elements being left out and/or changed, but that has no bearing on the quality of the book or the film. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/42 "2013-10-14T15:10:27Z")
Which is exactly what **Grumman** said. The quality of the movie, on its own merits, is a matter of opinion, but it is objective fact that it is not in any meaningful sense based on the book. Heck, Verhoeven was _proud_ that he hadn’t read it, because that meant that his “great artistic vision” wouldn’t be compromised by it. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/43 "2013-10-14T15:12:29Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, to be fair, it could be argued that you invited the insinuation, by saving THIS until post 12: > [@Mangetout](#): > > Anything _could_ be argued, but I don’t think that would really be fair, so… _are_ you arguing that? To elaborate - do you really think a fair reading of the OP in this thread - even with the potential abiguity of the word ‘action’ - warrants the response > [@](#): > > …unable to think past tentpole 'splosionfests on your scale of “good,” “worth doing” or “worth watching.” ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/44 "2013-10-14T15:24:51Z")
I stand behind my comments _in the chain of exchanges_. The quote above is not a direct reply to your first post. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/45 "2013-10-14T16:05:07Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I kind of loved the movie and saw it multiple times in the theaters. Of course, Denise Richards. I mean… there’s breasts. And explosions. And Doogie Howser as some sort of psychic Nazi. Really… what’s there to complain about? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/46 "2013-10-14T16:22:10Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > To elaborate - do you really think a fair reading of the OP in this thread - even with the potential abiguity of the word ‘action’ - warrants the response Nah, not really. I thought maybe **Amateur Barbarian** _had been_ misled by the ambiguity (and being on my phone I posted as soon as I had read post 13), but now that I see he’s already doubled down on it, I’ll say that had I read to post 30 before shoving my oar in, I wouldn’t have posted. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/47 "2013-10-14T18:43:59Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I mean… there’s breasts. And explosions. And Doogie Howser as some sort of psychic Nazi. Really… what’s there to complain about? 😛 My friends and I called him Doogie Himmler. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/48 "2013-10-14T18:59:51Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Nah, not really. I thought maybe **Amateur Barbarian** _had been_ misled by the ambiguity (and being on my phone I posted as soon as I had read post 13), but now that I see he’s already doubled down on it, I’ll say that had I read to post 30 before shoving my oar in, I wouldn’t have posted. I’ll triple-dog-down on it just to make sure: anyone who says a thoughtful, intellectually-centered book can’t be made into a “good” movie is expressing a very constricted sense of what film is and can do. Whether or not you want to wrassle over “action” vs. “explosions” or not - and okay-fine, I skipped some subtleties at the beginning - my answers were addressing that narrow approach… and from some small degree of experience, as I worked through the exercise ten years ago with a successful result. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/49 "2013-10-14T20:58:16Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ll triple-dog-down on it just to make sure: anyone who says a thoughtful, intellectually-centered book can’t be made into a “good” movie is expressing a very constricted sense of what film is and can do. I disagree with this analysis. I do believe I know what good film is. I think what I probably have is an underdeveloped knowledge of examples of source material _that has been made into good film_. I’ve seen a good number of great films. I’ve read a large number of very good books - but (within the scope of my experience) there has just been rather little intersection between these two sets (and I can’t recall any outstanding examples of intersection - that is, where a good book _was_ done well in film). It will help if you could provide some examples. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/50 "2013-10-14T22:15:11Z")
I quite enjoyed the movie, but I treated it like the Conan films- a fun action adventure film whose title is only a coincidence. 😛 But the OP has a point, and I’ll go further- other than his YA books\* – _none_ of RAH’s greater, later novels can or will make decent films. My evidence is that none have been made into a decent film, “Destination Moon” being a exception in many ways. I can see a few as a HBO Mini-series. But even then, the super fan boys will hate them, much as they hate the LotR films. - I know that some categorize ST as a “juvenile”, I disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/51 "2013-10-15T18:48:57Z")
_Destination Moon_ wasn’t a decent film. It was certainly a faithful film, and scientifically accurate… But it was also really boring. EDIT: Oh, and what makes you think the LotR fanboys hate the movies? ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/52 "2013-10-15T19:04:33Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I think what I probably have is an underdeveloped knowledge of examples of source material _that has been made into good film_. I’d be happy to leave it there, no remaining diss on your film sense. I think any further wrassling would simply be over whether, say, _Silence of the Lambs_ or _Clockwork Orange_ were good books turned into excellent and largely faithful films. I’d have to think a while about thoughtful, interior, “difficult” novels that I regard as successfully translated to film. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/53 "2013-10-15T19:05:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > _Destination Moon_ wasn’t a decent film. It was certainly a faithful film, and scientifically accurate… But it was also really boring. > > EDIT: Oh, and what makes you think the LotR fanboys hate the movies? Like I said "_Destination Moon" being a exception in many ways. "_ So, just to take that out of the debate, since it is well made but as you said- deadly dull. Is it really even SF? Well, by no means all, but enough bitch and complain here and in other places. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/54 "2013-10-15T19:08:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > _Destination Moon_ wasn’t a decent film. It was certainly a faithful film, and scientifically accurate… But it was also really boring. If those terms slide around any more they’re going to wear out their tread. 🙂 For what it was (time, place and approach to subject) I’d have trouble calling DM anything but a decent film. Faithful… to what? It’s a VERY loose adaptation at best of _Rocket Ship Galileo_, and the short story was written hand-in-glove with the screenplay, much like 2001. Scientifically accurate… as far as some basics of gravity and acceleration and orbital maneuvering. Pretty much pure Golden Age otherwise. Boring… I’d neither agree entirely nor argue. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/55 "2013-10-15T19:08:01Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > If it remained under the name _Bug Hunt at Outpost Nine_ I still wouldn’t like it much but at least I wouldn’t despair that a decent _ST_ will never be made. I don’t think the despair is necessary. Hollywood loves itself some remakes, and the success of the _Iron Man_ franchise and _Pacific Rim_ shows that there’s a market for movies about guys in robot suits blowing things up. I wouldn’t be surprised if someone takes another bite at _Starship Troopers_ before the end of the decade. I suspect you could do a pretty decent take on it by playing up the themes of duty, loyalty, and patriotism, without bogging down too much in the nitty gritty of how the political system works, and what led to it being established. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/56 "2013-10-15T19:19:24Z")
> [@Bob Ducca](#): > > I kind of loved the movie and saw it multiple times in the theaters. Of course, Denise Richards. I hear they have this thing called the Internet that lets you see boobies without sitting through a crappy movie. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/57 "2013-10-15T19:32:06Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I disagree with this analysis. I do believe I know what good film is. I think what I probably have is an underdeveloped knowledge of examples of source material _that has been made into good film_. > > I’ve seen a good number of great films. I’ve read a large number of very good books - but (within the scope of my experience) there has just been rather little intersection between these two sets (and I can’t recall any outstanding examples of intersection - that is, where a good book _was_ done well in film). > > It will help if you could provide some examples. LotR. Master & Commander. Blade Runner (Film was better than the story, actually and Dick more or less said so), Schindlers List. One Flew over the Cuckoos’ Nest. Richard III with Sir Ian, Much Ado about Nothing by Whedon, Henry V by Branagh. Several good Christmas Carol films. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/58 "2013-10-15T19:58:11Z")
Not bad, as a start - and like I said, I’ve either read the book or seen the film, but rarely both. But I don’t think plays can count - although there is of course adaptation required for the screen, they are written with the specific intent of being performed. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/59 "2013-10-15T20:05:22Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’d have to think a while about thoughtful, interior, “difficult” novels that I regard as successfully translated to film. I’d honestly appreciate hearing your eventual conclusion on this - I might even set myself some homework based on any examples you can suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/60 "2013-10-15T22:19:09Z")
I don’t think ST was a great movie or a good adaptation to the book. It was drive-in theatre fare. It could have been a better movie and/or a better adaptation of the novel but it was neither. As was stated upthread, I really don’t know how a film could have been made as a true adaptation of the novel. The History & Moral Philosophy lectures just don’t lend themselves to film. And how can you make a movie of ST without the powered suits? As for Destination Moon, I found it a bit boring also. Of course I first saw it a couple of months ago and it was really dated. But I’m sure it was pretty mind blowing at the time it was made and first released. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988.md?page=4)