# Starship Troopers could never have been a good movie (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 11, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988 "2013-10-11T15:45:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/61 "2013-10-16T03:32:25Z")
To be clear, I’m not saying that Destination Moon is boring just because it’s dated. Forbidden Planet, for instance, is even more dated, but there’s damned good reason why that one’s a classic. Rather, Destination Moon is boring because it feels like a lecture: There’s too much explaining and not enough showing. It’s good explanations, but that’s not generally what you want from a movie. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/62 "2013-10-16T10:06:26Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Gravity isn’t even a bad one to add to the list - the haters seem to hate it because it’s not a Spielberg-Bay-Bruckheimerfest and overlook that it’s a magnificent and subtle character study. Wait…‘magnificent and subtle character study’? Really? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/63 "2013-10-16T10:43:23Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > One of the reasons Ayn Rand’s books never made it to the big screen until long after her death was that she kept very tight control over any script to make sure that Hollywood wouldn’t do to her works what they did to ‘Starship Troopers’ - buy the rights to a book and then use the movie to mock it. Ayn Rand 1905-1982: [The Fountainhead (1949)](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0041386/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_9) [We the Living (1942)](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0035130/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_13) ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/64 "2013-10-16T15:20:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To be clear, I’m not saying that Destination Moon is boring just because it’s dated. … {snip} … , Destination Moon is boring because it feels like a lecture: There’s too much explaining and not enough showing. It’s good explanations, but that’s not generally what you want from a movie. I agree with you. And I think that’s the reason ST could never be made into a great movie. Nobody would want to sit through all those History & Moral Philosophy lectures. On the other hand, the refreshment stands would probably do a lot of business during those parts. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/65 "2013-10-16T16:06:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Which is exactly what **Grumman** said. The quality of the movie, on its own merits, is a matter of opinion, but it is objective fact that it is not in any meaningful sense based on the book. Heck, Verhoeven was _proud_ that he hadn’t read it, because that meant that his “great artistic vision” wouldn’t be compromised by it. You do realise that Verhoeven didn’t write it? I do find it weird that he is given all the blame and Edward Neumeier seems to get off Scott-free. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/66 "2013-10-16T16:18:01Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Relevant points, but I don’t think you have proven what you think you have proven. > > What you have actually proven is that it is not possible to film an accurate adaptation of the book and have it be a good movie. This is not the same thing as “you cannot take the concepts in the book and make a good movie ‘based on’ the book.” Because, as you say, Orbital Drops and Powered Suits. 😛 I may have agreed before I saw Pacific Rim. It would cost tons but I could see Starship Troopers as a cross between that and Full Metal Jacket being one hell of a movie and true to the book and the points (societal) it was trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/67 "2013-10-16T16:22:38Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I agree with you. And I think that’s the reason ST could never be made into a great movie. Nobody would want to sit through all those History & Moral Philosophy lectures. On the other hand, the refreshment stands would probably do a lot of business during those parts. But see, that’s the argument. I think the history and moral philosophy can be communicated in a movie through scenes that aren’t lectures. The ST movie we had didn’t really try to do that in a meaningful way. But for instance, imagine as much thought was put into the treatment as was put into the story of _Full Metal Jacket_, it might have a less clear message, but possibly one that could be communicated through film by a skilled screenwriter. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/68 "2013-10-16T16:48:18Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I may have agreed before I saw Pacific Rim. It would cost tons but I could see Starship Troopers as a cross between that and Full Metal Jacket being one hell of a movie and true to the book and the points (societal) it was trying to make. I’m confused. You appear to be agreeing with me NOW. Is this meant to imply that you still haven’t seen Pacific Rim? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/69 "2013-10-16T18:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > You do realise that Verhoeven didn’t write it? He directed it, didn’t he? If directors are going to get all the artistic credit for movies, then they deserve all the artistic blame, too. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/70 "2013-10-16T21:15:55Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To be clear, I’m not saying that Destination Moon is boring just because it’s dated. Forbidden Planet, for instance, is even more dated, but there’s damned good reason why that one’s a classic. Rather, Destination Moon is boring because it feels like a lecture: There’s too much explaining and not enough showing. It’s good explanations, but that’s not generally what you want from a movie. Ok, but \*\*taking aside \*\*Destination Moon (which is a odd duck corner case film in many ways), there have been no decent RAH films made. ST is at best “fun” especially if you pretend it’s not trying to be the book. Which is my point. As much as we love the writer, his books just aren’t film material (this especially applies to TMiaHM, which might make a good miniseries). True, some of the juveniles could be solid little films, but everyone wants _dark, gritty and darker_ :rolleyes: so we’ll have to wait a while for the pendulum to swing back. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/71 "2013-10-16T22:36:10Z")
Would _Invasion of the Body Snatchers_ count as a good film made from a Heinlein book? ---
**Author:** ![Glazer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a88e57/32.png) [@Glazer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Glazer)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/72 "2013-10-16T23:08:16Z")
There was a Puppet Masters movie already. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/73 "2013-10-16T23:24:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Would _Invasion of the Body Snatchers_ count as a good film made from a Heinlein book? It was based on a Jack Finney novel. Or am I being whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/74 "2013-10-16T23:28:29Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > It was based on a Jack Finney novel. Or am I being whooshed? Very similar themes, some cried foul. But the film really made from the Puppet Masters was pretty bad and not faithful to the book. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/75 "2013-10-17T14:36:04Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > I’m confused. You appear to be agreeing with me NOW. > > Is this meant to imply that you still haven’t seen Pacific Rim? 😉 Now I’m confused. OK - Readers Digest version. Until I saw Pacific Rim I would have said it was impossible to make a movie out of Starship Troopers (the book) faithful to the original - the MI combat scenes being the biggest stumbling block. My bet now is that CGI has gotten to the point where you could do it - from seating the soldiers in their “eggs”, to the penetration and chaff, to landing and advancing on the hop - and make it believable. My hope would be that the combat is second to the glimpse into society more like Full Metal Jacket. The book is about more than just the bughunts after all. Concentration on boot, and then OCS, is something I would be looking for. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/76 "2013-10-17T15:02:05Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > Now I’m confused. OK - Readers Digest version. Until I saw Pacific Rim I would have said it was impossible to make a movie out of Starship Troopers (the book) faithful to the original - the MI combat scenes being the biggest stumbling block. My bet now is that CGI has gotten to the point where you could do it - from seating the soldiers in their “eggs”, to the penetration and chaff, to landing and advancing on the hop - and make it believable. Ah. You see, that’s not what the OP was talking about. He basically said “It’s impossible to make a good Starship Troopers movie, because not enough happens and it’s all in Rico’s head.” And I said, “Maybe, but they could still easily do a movie ‘based on’ the book, because it has Powered Suits and Orbital Drops, and those are awesome, so even if it wasn’t precisely all Rico thinking, all the time, you could certainly set something in that universe and have it be awesome.” And, well, Pacific Rim proves that we totally have the technology to make an awesome movie about Powered Suits. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/77 "2013-10-17T15:13:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Very similar themes, some cried foul. But the film really made from the Puppet Masters was pretty bad and not faithful to the book. I kind of liked the movie but it did take out a lot of the good bits from the book. Like the societal changes which come from everyone having to be pretty much naked all the time. I would have loved to have seen the Congress scene on film. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/78 "2013-10-17T16:17:09Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > I seem to be in the minority around these parts in thinking that the film is a work of genius and the book is unreadable claptrap. I agree with you. I read it in college while I was studying SF works and their influence by current events, comparing ST to **Enders Game** (books with fairly similar plots on the surface). Despite my loathing of Orson Scott Card, I do think Ender’s Game succeeds pretty well as a novel: the action sequences are specific, detailed, original, and exciting, while the moral ambiguities are plentiful and interesting to contemplate. In contrast, I found the action sequences in Starship Troopers to be terribly written (in one battle with some alien species I don’t think Heinlein ever bothered to explain whether the aliens were a tool-wielding species, for example, something that makes it hard for me to visualize the battle), and the moral issues are hit-you-over-the-head subtle, on par with Ayn Rand: characters spend pages and pages just preaching at the reader. I hated that book passionately. I’m not a great fan of the movie, but at least it was trying to do something interesting, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![glaeken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@glaeken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glaeken)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/79 "2013-10-17T16:25:57Z")
I personally enjoyed both book and film. I don’t really expect films versions to be anything like the book as they very rarely are. On the film I always thought it was meant to be parody of fascist propaganda films. Of course you can also enjoy it as a big dumb action movie but I think it had more going on than that really. The whole film is framed as a recruitment film for the mobile infantry and the journey of Rico seems very much like a propaganda message. Disillusioned rebellious youth gets converted to dedicated committed hero of the cause. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988/80 "2013-10-17T18:47:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > In contrast, I found the action sequences in Starship Troopers to be terribly written (in one battle with some alien species I don’t think Heinlein ever bothered to explain whether the aliens were a tool-wielding species, for example, something that makes it hard for me to visualize the battle), and the moral issues are hit-you-over-the-head subtle, on par with Ayn Rand: characters spend pages and pages just preaching at the reader. I hated that book passionately. > > I’m not a great fan of the movie, but at least it was trying to do something interesting, IMO. Leaving aside the moral issues, I have to disagree about the action sequences. The opening scene of ST which describes the drop and the raid on the Skinny planet is one of the most memorable action scenes I’ve ever read. Far from being hard to visualize, I thought it was almost cinematic in the way it was described and carried out. Heinlein captured the terror of waiting for the drop, the feeling of being a sitting duck while on the way down, and then the actions of a highly trained soldier too busy doing what he was trained for to be truly afraid. Who can forget, “I’m a ten second bomb! Nine…Eight…” Bounding over buildings while flaming everything that moves, stopping to fire a nuke at a distant industrial structure, feeling the ‘thump’ of bombs being auto-launched from the Y-rack on his back with every jump, Johnny deciding to go through the next building instead of over it - and then backing out as a swarm of skinnies come pouring out, the call to close ranks, trying to bring in the flanks and encircle the landing boat, the chaos around them, the sound of the retrieval beacon… breaking ranks to rescue Flores and almost missing retrieval. It was one of the best action sequences I’ve ever read in science fiction, or maybe in any fiction. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-could-never-have-been-a-good-movie-open-spoilers/670988.md?page=5)