# Starship Troopers: did anybody understand it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 25, 2000, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333 "2000-10-25T23:40:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/21 "2000-10-26T14:28:54Z")
zen101: "The Man Who Fell to Earth wasn’t based on a Heinlein novel – it was based on “The Man Who Fell to Earth” by Walter Tevis. (Tevis also gave us the novels “The Hustler” and “THe Color of Money” – yes, the ones made into Paul Newman movies. He’s written other sf, but he’s not as well known for it.)There’s really no resemblance to SIASL that I can see, except that in the book (not the movie) the David bowie alien DOES come from Mars. I have to admit that I liked Starship Troopers – for all the wrong reasons. Heinlein would have HATED this movie, on several levels (Non-tech bugs throw rocks at the earth from the other side of the galaxy? Not even our remote descendants would have to worry about that threat. A bug-thrown rock almost hits a starship, and they have to take evasive maneuvers, and STILL get hit? Heinlein made fun of that scenario in one of his books. And so on.), but the main problem is that the philosphy of the film-makers is almost diametrically opposed to Heinlein’s philosophy. Surprisingly few professional reviewers seem to be aware of this – Roger Ebert declared himself a big fan of the book, and never mentioned the discrepancy. Heinlein liked to play around with off-beat political systems in his books (there are several apiece in “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” and “Expanded Universe”), but that doesn’t mean that he actually advocated any of them. I do suspect that the scheme he laid out in ST was close to his heart, but it wasn’t the crypto-fascist set-up Verhoeven portrayed in the movie by a long shot. I liked the movie, in case you were wondering, for the CGI effects, the screenwriter’s facile storytelling (sorry- forgot his name. His Internet/TV style was as good as the “Newsbreak” device in Robocop.), and the conviction with which it was told. Verhoeven WAS playing this broadly, and clearly doing so deliberately. He’s not a bad film-maker, I maintain, but that doesn’t mean that you’ll like what he’s done. ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/22 "2000-10-26T14:36:53Z")
Oops, forgot to react to the OP. Yes, I was disappointed (again) by Starship Troopers. The book is a powerful coming-of-age story with some intriguing political ideas, worthy of much discussion, though not terribly PC. As indicated above no suits=no starship troopers, just some stupid bugshooters. Whole aircraft carriers could sail through the plot holes in this mishmash. Watch it for the mindless action and the co-ed shower scenes and pretend it was written by somebody else. As for Puppet Masters, in spite of the criticisms, there were a few scenes that played well – the visit to the TV studio, and a rather chilling-in-its-appearance-of-normalcy scene in which the small child is putting rolled up slugs into the mailboxes on a country road. The slugs were great, and believable. Donald Sutherland did the Old Man very well indeed. Hell, even Richard Belzer acquitted himself well. So watch the first 40 minutes or so and forget the rest, especially the “hive” so reminiscent of the humans-embedded-in-alien-flesh scene in Aliens 2. Anybody know whatever happened to the announced “Stranger in a Strange Land”? project? The possibilities to bitch this classic up are nearly endless. Personally, I’d like to see somebody tackle “Red Planet,” which seems doable. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/23 "2000-10-26T14:52:46Z")
**HometownBoy** : Thanks for the link - that essay was great. Everyone: One of our own, **Cervaise** , has a fantastic website full of movie reviews called MovieGeek Central. While the site has not been updated in an _eternity_ (don’t get me started…), the review of [Starship Troopers](http://moviegeek.homestead.com/_ksi0701961552430625/moviegeek/files/starshiptroopers.htm) is there, and it is fantastic. **Cervaise** calls the movie everything from a “stunning spectacle” to “like getting hit in the forehead with a Sony Playstation. Very hard. Again and again and again.” The review is excellent, as are all of **Cervaise** ’s reviews. I’m a big fan. I just wish he would update the site already! Check it out… ---
**Author:** ![RainbowDragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@RainbowDragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainbowDragon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/24 "2000-10-26T15:02:52Z")
To someone like me that was unfamiliar with Heinlien, I enjoyed the movie. Although I kept thinking it was a rip of the computer game “StarCraft”. It was campy with plenty of special effects and violence. What more could you want in a typical “guy” flick (OK maybe Arnold, Sylvester, or Bruce)? Although throughout the movie, I kept wondering: Why not nuke the whole bug world? What the heck happened to planes, tanks, and artillery? I take offense to the statement regarding American (US) Imperialism. We do not think that anyone from the Middle East is a “bug”. Nor do Americans think of Middle Easterners in any condescending term. We do take offense to select groups bombing our ships and our people, but do not judge an entire race or religion by one radical group. ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/25 "2000-10-26T15:03:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hometownboy \* > \*\* > Personally, I’d like to see somebody tackle “Red Planet,” which seems doable. \*\* Fox did a cartoon version! It sucked big doody, of course. They turned it into a big stupid ecological thing, and what happened to the armed revolt??? It was set on Mars. Willis was there. Otherwise it resembled the book not at all. By the way, I thought _Puppet Masters_ was pretty good, too–as true to the book as one can expect a movie to be. They even filmed some of it in Ottumwa. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/26 "2000-10-26T15:22:43Z")
American Imperialism? Try totalitarism or nazism. The movie tries to get you to root for the Nazis, which it does. Unless you’re laughing at the whole thing and rooting for the bugs to end the movie early. [Interview with the director](http://mrshowbiz.go.com/interviews/382_1.html) Also, please note that I haven’t read the book. But from what I’ve heard (yeah, real authorative…), the earth civilization is quite totalitarian. Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/27 "2000-10-26T15:31:28Z")
Off to IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/28 "2000-10-26T15:31:32Z")
Connor: Read the book. Don’t take what you’ve heard from others as authoritative. In my own experience (see my post above) people don’t seem to get Heinlein’s message correct. As he has himself pointed out (see his essay on this in “Expanded Universe”, and the section on it in “Grumbles from the Grave”, or Spider Robinson’s comments in various places) ST is NOT a “Militaristic” society. Soldiers, regardless of rank, don’t get to vote or hold office. I’m not saying I agree with Heinlein’s vision (and nowhere does he say that even HE upholds it – as I said, Heinlein made up a lot of “toy” societies in his books – although I suspect he liked this one), but it annoys me that people either misrepresent it, or don’t understand it. In any event, what’s portrayed in the Verhoeven film is light-years from Heinlein’s vision. Oh, yeah – another thing Heinlein would’ve hated – that shower room scene. In the book all pilots are female, all soldiers male, and the sexes never meet on board except in very limited and formal functions. Heinlein wasn’t anti-sex or anti-feminist, but the kind of sexual mixing shown in the film was NOT part of the army society he described. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/29 "2000-10-26T16:05:52Z")
- as a friend described it. FWIW, I kinda liked it - in a non-committal, eye-candy sort of way. Cool bugs. Very cool spaceships. I LIKE the knife-throwing scene. It’s a definite candidate for inclusion in any hangover video session. But of course, it has nothing to do with the book. OTOH, I believe the book would’ve made a piss-poor movie. The characters in the book are not that bloody interesting. The protagonist grows, and sergeant Zim has more than one side to his personality, the rest are mechanical puppets who go through their motions to describe the society that Heinlein had envisioned. That vision is what makes the book worth reading (several times), but it doesn’t make for a great movie. Just my 0.02 Euro. S. Norman ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/30 "2000-10-26T16:50:52Z")
The book would have made an excellent movie, IF it had been made into a movie. The tragedy of Tri-star Troopers is that now, the _real_ movie version of _Starship Troopers_ will never be made. If you want to make a satire (if that’s what it was), it’s awfully rude to steal the name for it from a non-satirical book. Oh, and by the way, **Podkayne** , the Fox bastardization of _Red Planet_ wasn’t even set on Mars. It was some place called New Ares. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/31 "2000-10-26T17:33:10Z")
The TV series was fun. They took the best part of the movie, the computer graphics, and threw away the worst part, the humans. Computerized the whole thing. And, somehow, they managed to simplify the plot and relationships more than in the movie! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/32 "2000-10-26T17:40:06Z")
> [@](#): > > **sdimbert:** The review is excellent, as are all of Cervaise’s reviews. I’m a big fan. I just wish he would update the site already! Sigh… I know, I know… 🙂 Re _Starship Troopers_ as a satire: Yes, absolutely, it is a sophisticated satire of war propaganda movies. To anyone who disagrees, I’m sorry, but it’s not an **obvious** satire, like _Network_ or _Wrong is Right_ or similar movies that **tell** you they’re satires. _Starship Troopers_ is sophisticated specifically because its satirical elements are buried under the veneer of pretending to be a “real” movie. Consider: Verhoeven is European. He was born prior to WWII, and he and his family fled German expansion. He certainly had exposure to Nazi propaganda films, in which the most heinous acts were justified with martial music, impressive spectacle, and crowd-pleasing reassurances. But then, as the deeply cynical man he is, he probably found that Western propaganda was no better, even if (from our perspective) it was propaganda supporting the “correct” position. Now: Look at the film he made of _Starship Troopers._ In my original review, referenced by **sdimbert** , I referred to a “flickering satirical subtext.” I have since rethought this position, as part of a wholesale re-evaluation of Verhoeven’s whole canon, inspired by the release of his new film _Hollow Man_, and have upgraded my opinion of _Starship Troopers_ significantly. Yes, he absolutely subverted and undercut Heinlein’s philosophy, because he doesn’t buy it for a minute. It amuses him greatly to take one viewpoint, tweak it slightly, and use it to make the opposite point. (More on this in a minute.) Again, look at the film: It has all the trappings of a conventional adventure. It has attractive actors playing all the heroes, beautiful people who, unfortunately, can’t really act. (Look back to Betty Grable: amazing legs, no discernible talent.) The character who is supposedly the most powerful is played by Doogie Howser, for cryin’ out loud. And Doogie’s little cadre of “good guys” are dressed, unquestionably, in Nazi-inspired hats and topcoats. The entire film is structured exactly the same as a WWII propaganda piece, as is made clear by several small details. The one I find most amusing occurs after Johnny Rico washes out of boot camp; as he’s headed for the exit, his bag slung over his shoulder, all the other soldiers run past him the opposite direction, and one calls back over his shoulder, “We’re going to war!” Could there be a more obvious 1942 Jimmy Cagney moment? Now look at what’s really going on. The bugs are way the hell over on the other side of the galaxy. The war started because humans tried to colonize one of their worlds. The bugs refused to let them stay, and destroyed the colony. The humans get mad and fight back for their “right” to expand to the planet where the bugs already live. Who’s the invader here? Look at it this way: We, as the human audience, are being asked to identify with fictional human heroes in their war against alien bugs. All the trappings are there for a successful movie: attractive people, snazzy special effects, a little sex, and the “bad guy” bugs are, without question, huge, scary, and nonhuman. Any halfway decent hack director could have made this into a rousing, flag-waving adventure, one that panders to our basest impulses and seduces us into yet another self-centered bit of aggrandization. But Verhoeven deliberately undercuts this at every turn. The lead actors are all terrible, making it difficult to identify with them. If you examine the situation rationally, the human characters are clearly in the wrong. Tactically, the humans’ approach makes no sense either; without power armor, nuclear grenades, or any other truly useful weapons, the human infantry simply becomes cannon fodder in a pointless war of attrition. (Trench warfare, anyone?) The bottom line: To “read” _Starship Troopers_, you have to make a leap of imagination. Pretend you’re a German nationalist in 1942, going to the cinema in Berlin, watching a movie in which your leaders attempt to justify the war as right and good. If _Starship Troopers_ makes you uncomfortable or doesn’t seem to “work correctly,” don’t feel bad – it’s supposed to be like that. Verhoeven absolutely makes movies about movies, and about audience expectations and desires; this is clear if you truly look at his other work. _Showgirls_ is just the most notorious example, and is, for me, the most misunderstood and unfairly maligned movie of the last twenty years. If you really look at it, it’s clearly a big “fuck you” to the classic American dream of “A Star is Born,” to the ultimate fantasy of being “discovered” and elevated to fame and fortune. It’s clunky and awkward on purpose, and casting a no-talent clueless bimbo like Elizabeth Berkeley in the lead is just the final bit of decoration that makes Verhoeven’s thematic intent clear. The whole movie is basically a _Stage Door_-style fantasy, with story structure, dialogue, and acting styles imported wholesale from 1935, but by transplanting the whole thing into a world of sleaze and filth, Verhoeven is flipping a big fat bird to our most-cherished dreams. _Hollow Man_ doesn’t work in quite the same way, and has a fairly different underlying message, but it employs similar meta-cinematic devices. Still, because Verhoeven’s themes are so subversive, his movies don’t “work” for the conventional viewer; they seem “off,” somehow. It’s perfectly all right if you don’t enjoy _Starship Troopers_ or _Showgirls_ or any of his other movies, because they’re not designed to be enjoyed in the generally understood sense; and in fact, if you do “enjoy” _Starship Troopers_ on a superficial level, then you got suckered by the masquerade. What isn’t all right is to assert that the satirical intent isn’t there, because it most certainly is, if you look for it. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/33 "2000-10-26T17:57:46Z")
I have to agree. Heinlein’s crypto-fascist attitudes were quite real; the book is depthfree, jingoistic crap like most of his work. Verhoeven takes that and turns it on its head quite well, though with heavy hand. Yes, it is obviously, and obvious, satire. However, I have seen little of Verhoeven’s other work and just thought the movie’s awkwardness was because he isn’t a very good director. He does that on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![psiekier](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psiekier/32/116_2.png) [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/34 "2000-10-26T18:03:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hapaXL \* > \*\*i was reading an old thread about “movies you despise” and saw Starship Troopers listed several times. it made me wonder once again why even intelligent people can’t see this movie for the satire that it was. on the surface, it’s a vapid Hollywood EFX movie, but you might want to watch it again if you missed the point. > > anybody interested in dissecting the more brilliant parts of this movie? i’m not a fanatic (really only seen it 3 times) but perhaps there are other lonely fans with something to contribute… \*\* _Starship Troopers_ is the ultimate guy movie. It has everything a guy could want in a movie, except for women in powered armour (_Bubblegum Crisis_, anyone?). Unfortunately, it was Dina Meyer, and not Denise Richards who was topless (you have to see \*Wild Things[/] for that), if that’s what you mean by “brilliant parts.” 😉 Really, I thought at times the movie more closely resembled John Steakley’s _Armor_ than Heinlein’s _Starship Troopers_, although, admittedly, the armour was a quintessential part of both works. No, I don’t think removing Sereant Jelal and merging Mr. Rasczak with The Leiutenant cripples the storyline. The problem with the movie is that many political and historical elements of Heinlein’s universe were glossed over or omitted for the sake of making an exciting action movie. For example, if we can forgive the lack of Skinnies and Marauder suits, how about all the time Rico spends in OCS, learning just how vulnerable mankind is? The space station where the human fleet docks is so remote and such a guarded secret because sould the aliens decide they really need to “smear” (to use Heinlein’s term) Earth, it will probably be humanity’s only hope. As to Verhoeven - I got just about what I expected, except for the scene at the beginning with the “30-second bomb.” I figured that’s just the kind of humour he’d go for. … and one last thing. It’s funny that I should think to mention _Bubblegum Crisis_. The character and mecha designer, Kenichi Sonoda, also designed the Mobile Infantry “Troopers” for the anime version of _Starship Troopers_. I heard it wasn’t very good, but at east they wore armour. * * * Pete Long time RGMWer and ardent AOLer ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/35 "2000-10-26T18:32:39Z")
I think that if anyone was “suckered in” it was YOU, Cervaise. Verhoeven is far less deep than he acts, and he’s managed to convince a portion of the moviegoing public that his flicks have some sort of meaning. Frankly, he isn’t much more than Michael Bay with pretensions. It’s just that most American critics aren’t used to seeing European filmakers act as shallow as some of their american counterparts; the subtle differences in the film language give the films an air of qualityn they don’t deserve. I doubt any thoughts went through Verhoeven’s head while making the film more complex than “Let’s see how much I can shock them” and “This looks _cool_!” ---
**Author:** ![egkelly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/db5fbb/32.png) [@egkelly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/egkelly)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/36 "2000-10-26T18:50:50Z")
I found it hilariously funny! Quite apart from the atrocious acting (Caspar van Dien is possibly the dopiest excus for an actor i have ever seen), the plot makes no sense. I particularly wondered how “the bugs” managed to hurl rocks from across the galaxy (with sufficient accuracy to hit Buenos Aires). I don’t think that Verhoeven used much of heinlein’s work beyond the title. Of course, I rather enjoy picking apart movies-I wonder why thy chose that little runt (ex-doogie howser) to play the nazi-like colonel! I also don’t understand the armless recruiting sergeant-surely by then they would have perfected reconstructive surgery. Sci-Fi is a notoriously difficult genre to transplant from a novel to movie format-let alone without having that jerk of a dutchman 9verhoeven) do it! ---
**Author:** ![Blackclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@Blackclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackclaw)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/37 "2000-10-26T19:03:42Z")
I think you are giving a bad director far too much credit. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cervaise \* > \*\* > Look at it this way: We, as the human audience, are being asked to identify with fictional human heroes in their war against alien bugs. All the trappings are there for a successful movie: attractive people, snazzy special effects, a little sex, and the “bad guy” bugs are, without question, huge, scary, and nonhuman. Any halfway decent hack director could have made this into a rousing, flag-waving adventure, one that panders to our basest impulses and seduces us into yet another self-centered bit of aggrandization. \*\* Except Verhoeven who apparently isn’t even up to halfway decent hack director standards. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Tactically, the humans’ approach makes no sense either; without power armor, nuclear grenades, or any other truly useful weapons, the human infantry simply becomes cannon fodder in a pointless war of attrition. (Trench warfare, anyone?)\*\* Tactically the humans’ approach makes no sense because he screwed up the storyline. In the novel mobile warefare was used and weapons included tactical nukes. > [@](#): > > \*\* > It’s perfectly all right if you don’t enjoy _Starship Troopers_ or _Showgirls_ or any of his other movies, because they’re not designed to be enjoyed in the generally understood sense; and in fact, if you do “enjoy” _Starship Troopers_ on a superficial level, then you got suckered by the masquerade.\*\* The bottom line is if a movie sucks, it sucks. Even if you intentionally made it suck. > [@](#): > > \*\* > What isn’t all right is to assert that the satirical intent isn’t there, because it most certainly is, if you look for it. \*\* What isn’t right is to claim to make a film based on a book and then throw the book away entirely in an attempt to drive home a badly delivered personal vision of satire. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/38 "2000-10-26T19:04:13Z")
Well, so much for hoping that explaining things brings tolerance and understanding. I hadn’t realized how emotional an issue this movie is for people (people seem to be similarly passionate about “The Martrix” on this board, too). If you want to know why they chose “Doogie Hauser” to be the lead psychic Nazi, listen to the commentary that accompanies the DVD. It was the ultimate subversion – to take cute little Doogie and use his as this ruthless, mind-playing, death-dealing officer type. Another curious point – no one has commented on Alexei Panshin’s “Heinlein in Dimension”. Heinlein clearly didn’t like Panshin’s critique of his work. (Even though it’s clear that, for all his criticism, Panshin LOVED Heinlein’s stuff.) Panshin did NOT like ST. Verhoeven and the screenwriter look as if they used Panshin as a guidebook – right down to opening the film with a recruiting-film-like action sequence. They DID include recuiting films later in the movie. ---
**Author:** ![hapaXL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/94ad74/32.png) [@hapaXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hapaXL)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/39 "2000-10-26T21:02:08Z")
thank you, Cervaise. had to wait over 30 posts before anybody came back with an answer to my question. guess i made the fatal error of trying to combine the (not overwhelmingly, but pretty close) mutually exclusive worlds of sci-fi fans and the reality of world politics. i guess my idea that most people completely misunderstood this movie has been proven to death. put the trashy novel down, watch the damn DVD commentary and learn something about American foreign policy, people! thanks also for the link to the Verhoven interview and an eerily accurate quote: “But I think what Starship Troopers tries to do, perhaps a little too clearly in a couple of cases with the uniforms, it’s saying, ‘Are you aware that this is also a little bit happening in your own society? And perhaps in a way that’s not so obvious to you.’” how can people so obsessed with government conspiracies about UFO’s and black helicopters be so completely oblivious to the criminal acts being constantly committed around the world by that same government? the evidence really isn’t that hard to find. and to my young friend in the Navy ROTC, please take the time to learn about the American imperialism “crap” so you can understand later why somebody will be trying to blow you up overseas… i guess we can all agree that satire is dead. how can you make fun of a world that is already a joke? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2000, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333/40 "2000-10-26T21:50:54Z")
Hapa, you’re new here, so I’ll give you some advice: 1. Don’t go around telling people that their **opinions** are wrong. 2. Don’t assume that everybody shares your personal worldview, and don’t assume that it’s “obviously true”. Do we have comprehension? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-did-anybody-understand-it/38333.md?page=3)