# Starship Troopers: stupid or brilliant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 14, 2003, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386 "2003-03-14T17:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![lurkernomore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@lurkernomore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lurkernomore)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/81 "2003-03-16T00:40:21Z")
OK. To start with, my opinion: This is the worst adaptation of a written work and will remain so until someone does a remake of _MacBeth_ with the Royal Shakespearean company - except for Pauly Shore in the title role. _Starship Troopers_ without powered armor is like _Star Wars_ without lightsabers. > [@](#): > > originally posted by ferrous \*\* > > I took off points for a different reason: The entire human army was armed with nothing but rifles. Fancy, high tech ones, yes, but no squad support weapons? No artillery, heavy machine guns, rocket launchers? Not so much as a hand grenade? Kinda stupid. > \*\* ``` Not to mention you see them charge in a group, FIRING FROM THE BACK as can be seen by level (not up) rifles and muzzle flashes (waited to see the front lines dropping from behind shot in the back) to HAND-TO-HAND ranger with the monsters, who often had NO projectile weapons. Does this guy go on bear hunts, see a bear, and CHARGE it? ``` > [@](#): > > originally posted by CalMeacham \*\* > Military leaders sending in expensively-armed highly-trained troops against vastly superior brainless insects? > \*\* ``` ..and being outwitted by them. ``` > [@](#): > > originally posted by Terrifel \*\* > Verhoeven’s satire is “brilliant” in the same sense that marbles are “sharp.” > \*\* Well put, sir! > [@](#): > > from a quote cited by John Harrison \*\* > “We’re going to do his book excactly, but make it different”. > \*\* ``` They should have paid him, but not with REAL money. ``` > [@](#): > > originally posted by Vivalostwages\*\* > I just rented this thing again the other day–for free > \*\* ``` You overpaid. ``` ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/82 "2003-03-16T01:53:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Terrifel \* > What if the only debate is over how horrible the movie is? I’m sorry I didn’t qualify my remark enough for you to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/83 "2003-03-16T14:00:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by detop \* > \*\*Not really, they could always call it “Robert A. Heinlein’s Starship Troopers”. > > But I agree, if he wanted to make an anti-war SF movie, he should have used “The Forever War” or Steakley’s “Armor”. \*\* I remember reading a description of a sci-fi convention where both Steakley and Heinlein were going to be. Everyone was one pins and needles, since they’d figure that Heinlein would tear Steakley to pieces for ripping off _Starship Troopers_. They were all left open-mouthed and agape when Heinlein went up to Steakley and said something like, “Yours is the best damn book I’ve read on war from the grunts perspective.”:eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/84 "2003-03-16T14:34:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tapioca Dextrin \* > \*\*I loved it to. Doogie Howser as jack booted facist? Brilliant! \*\* You mean _Doogie Howser, S.S._ ? ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/85 "2003-03-16T14:47:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tuckerfan \* > \*\*I remember reading a description of a sci-fi convention where both Steakley and Heinlein were going to be. Everyone was one pins and needles, since they’d figure that Heinlein would tear Steakley to pieces for ripping off _Starship Troopers_. They were all left open-mouthed and agape when Heinlein went up to Steakley and said something like, “Yours is the best damn book I’ve read on war from the grunts perspective.”:eek: \*\* Are you sure? That’s the exact same story I heard, only it was Haldeman, not Steakley. Spider Robinson, (IIRC) Jerry Pournelle and (IIRC) Harlan Ellison confirm the Haldeman story(He’d just won the Hugo in 197…6(?) for **Forever War**.) I think Steakley wrote **Armor** in 1982 or so, which was after Heinlein stopped going to conventions (I think). Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/86 "2003-03-16T14:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\*Are you sure? That’s the exact same story I heard, only it was Haldeman, not Steakley. Spider Robinson, (IIRC) Jerry Pournelle and (IIRC) Harlan Ellison confirm the Haldeman story(He’d just won the Hugo in 197…6(?) for **Forever War**.) > > I think Steakley wrote **Armor** in 1982 or so, which was after Heinlein stopped going to conventions (I think). > > Fenris \*\* Not 100%. It’s been awhile since I read that and I’m not even sure of where I read it. You may very well be right, or the account I may have read might have been in error. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/87 "2003-03-16T15:26:43Z")
I have also heard the Haldeman story. Same thing, though, in essence. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/88 "2003-03-16T15:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by erislover \* > \*\*I’m sorry I didn’t qualify my remark enough for you to understand. \*\* Please, don’t apologize. Since your remark prompted debate over its interpretation, it’s good, period. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Improved\_Scott](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f17d59/32.png) [@New\_Improved\_Scott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Improved_Scott)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/89 "2003-03-16T18:25:20Z")
I liked the movie for both the look it took at propaganda and the action. I liked it. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/90 "2003-03-16T18:31:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lurkernomore \* > **OK. To start with, my opinion: This is the worst adaptation of a written work and will remain so until someone does a remake of _MacBeth_ with the Royal Shakespearean company - except for Pauly Shore in the title role.** You got me thinking…I actually think Pauly Shore would be great as MacBeth. He’s about the right age (actually a little old), and he can do crazy pretty well. It would be the perfect role for him to break through into drama. ---
**Author:** ![Tarantara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a4c791/32.png) [@Tarantara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tarantara)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/91 "2003-03-16T19:21:56Z")
A friend of mine ranted against it as execrable military propaganda until I calmly explained the concept of Satire. Then he just felt stupid. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2003, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/92 "2003-03-16T22:29:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tarantara \* > \*\*A friend of mine ranted against it as execrable military propaganda until I calmly explained the concept of Satire. Then he just felt stupid. \*\* He shouldn’t have. Verhoeven’s “satire” was so poorly done that I blame your friend’s misinterpretation on the director. ---
**Author:** ![flood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@flood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flood)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/93 "2003-03-17T02:49:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MusicJunkie \* > \*\* > > There’s not a mention of anything like these things anywhere in the book. \*\* I believe that he was referring to the movie. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/94 "2003-03-17T11:35:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RikWriter \* > > * * * > > ## Originally posted by lissener Just because YOU’d have to read a treatise, RW, doesn’t mean ST is a “film you have to read a treatise to ‘get’.” I, for one, got in one, and subsequent viewings simply added to the pleasure. > > \*\*Good for you. Hope you understand you may not be in the majority. \*\* Who cares about majority? I got the satire the first time I saw the movie too, and thought it was hilarious. I haven’t read the book, have no interest in reading the book, and don’t care a whit about what people who love the book think about the movie. I like it, I got it, I think it’s funny, and, while it’s no **Brazil** (my all-time favorite film), I enjoy it every time I see it. Oh and, responding to something earlier in the thread, I thought it was pretty obvious that the **bugs** didn’t _really_ attack Buenos Aries. We wanted their planet and needed a good excuse to go blow their shit up. That’s what I got out of it anyway. Come to think of it, it’s a pretty timely movie. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/95 "2003-03-17T11:51:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Equipoise \* > \*\*Who cares about majority? > \*\* > > Well, if the majority disagree with you about the film’s quality, there is always a good chance YOU might be the one who’s wrong. > > \*\* > I got the satire the first time I saw the movie too, and thought it was hilarious. I haven’t read the book, have no interest in reading the book, and don’t care a whit about what people who love the book think about the movie. > \*\* > > Too bad for you. You’re the one missing out. > > \*\* > Oh and, responding to something earlier in the thread, I thought it was pretty obvious that the **bugs** didn’t _really_ attack Buenos Aries. We wanted their planet and needed a good excuse to go blow their shit up. That’s what I got out of it anyway. > \*\* > > Yes, that’s a possibility…although it makes little sense. If you’re going to stage an attack, why deprive yourself of one of your major population and industrial centers? Surely there would be cheaper targets to hit to achieve the same effect. Of course, nothing about the movie made sense anyway, which is one of its chief failings. Of many. > > \*\* > Come to think of it, it’s a pretty timely movie. \*\* If you’re implying what it SOUNDS like you’re implying, you’ve just crossed the line into nutball-hood. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/96 "2003-03-17T13:39:58Z")
It seems I am not an intelectual after all because 5 minutes into this movie the only thought my astonished mind could think was something like… “Wow this movie is very bad”. And yet I enjoyed, the way you enjoy the inevitable. Yes the movie sucks, actors are horrible…except that Dixie chick, she was perfect (I mean as woman, I make no judgment about her ability to act because she bought me the moment she undressed); the director was on pot and the scriptwriter was fresh out of college (or even High-School). But I enjoyed it. I will say that when I finished watching it the third time, suddenly an idea came to me: “Perhaps this is all a joke the director is playing us”. At that moment I realized that I just have had to many beers and I went to sleep. The crazy things you think when you are almost drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Short\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Short\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Short_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/97 "2003-03-17T16:11:07Z")
It’s always been my suspicion, too, that the bugs didn’t really ‘attack’ Buenos Aires. As for \*\* Equipoise \*\* and the implications made, that’s an entirely different kind of debate. Suffise it to say that I think it’s a ‘timely’ movie too. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/98 "2003-03-17T17:33:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Short Guy \* > \*\*It’s always been my suspicion, too, that the bugs didn’t really ‘attack’ Buenos Aires. As for \*\* Equipoise \*\* and the implications made, that’s an entirely different kind of debate. Suffise it to say that I think it’s a ‘timely’ movie too. \*\* Then you’re both treading dangerously close to kook-hood. Whatever your opinion of what’s going on, what you’re implying is just plain nuts. ---
**Author:** ![MusicJunkie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@MusicJunkie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MusicJunkie)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/99 "2003-03-17T20:42:43Z")
> [@](#): > > ## There’s not a mention of anything like these things anywhere in the book. > > I believe that he was referring to the movie. Actually he was comparing them. Or so I tought. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386/100 "2003-03-17T21:57:54Z")
A good movie? Not on your life. But it is to the book what McDonald’s French Fries are to the rancid oil in an abandoned Long John Silver’s Fryer, assuming rats have infested the shelf above the oil and defecated in it every day for years. The book is the second most godawful piece of crap I’ve ever had the displeasure of reading (Asimov’s _The Stars, Like Dust_ is the first). Not only are its politics absurdly oversimplified, not only are the characters barely one-dimensional, but the action scenes are terribly written. There’s more excitement in the phone book. I do think the director intended the movie to be a satire, but I think he didn’t always remember that. Parts of the movie were obvious satires, and were pretty funny; other parts played like a straight-up war movie. Compare it to a brilliant war-movie satire: _Dr. Strangelove_. There’s hardly a moment in that movie where the satire isn’t sustained. But there’s lots of _Starship Troopers_ that’s just a rather stupid action flick. I think Verhoeven is a director of modest merit who bought the rights to a book of no merit whatsoever. He did the best he could with the book, but that wasn’t particularly good. If you’ve not read the book, you really should. It’s as substantial as a dried dog turd. You should be able to polish it off in a single evening, and it’ll hopefully help you appreciate what Verhoeven was working with. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starship-troopers-stupid-or-brilliant/161386.md?page=6)