# "Start packing?" So, Gov. Romney, should we even bother with the election?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [April 16, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000 "2012-04-16T21:11:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2012, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/61 "2012-04-17T20:35:31Z")
> [@](#):
>
> And Romney saved jobs – it’s hard for me to understand why the simple act of making sure people have a steady paycheck doesn’t count, to at least some degree, as making the world better.
Did he, on net? A lot of his method for “turning companies around” consisted of laying off people. It seems quite plausible that he might have killed more jobs than he saved. Do you have any hard numbers on each?
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/62 "2012-04-17T20:36:42Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> **Palin Answer Generator:** “Oh all of them. When we SUPREME COURT DECISIONS in this great country with the troops and the sacrifice of the American patriot of the liberty and the founding fathers of a troops, we can [WINK] of the terrorists and liberty of SUPREME COURT DECISIONS.”
Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there
I can picture her saying exactly this and then later claiming that the LAME-STREAM MEDIA took her out of context.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2012, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/63 "2012-04-17T20:38:57Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> Let’s go to the quarry and throw stuff down there
Today, after years of hard work, I have finally made it.
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### Author:  [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2012, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/64 "2012-04-17T21:38:27Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> if mosquitoes could vote, he would denounce Gates.
That’s going to run through my head every time I see or hear any mention of Romney now, and I will laugh, and people will look at me funny. Well, funnier.
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/65 "2012-04-17T21:39:17Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#):
>
> Okay, well, at least this time you got data more likely to be factual.
As opposed to the data you’re provided, which is … well, nothing.
You claimed that government employment has not gone up, so I showed that it has, when one includes contractors.
You then claimed that _state and local_ spending has not gone up, so I showed that it has gone up consistently, in good times and bad, for years.
You then claimed that despite the rise in spending, employment has dropped, (especially in your unnamed area), so I showed that in fact it has risen.
And now you’re pretty much unable to even do math.
> [@](#):
>
> And government employment grew slower than population growth, proving my point.
US population, 2000-2010: 9.7% increase.
> **[Demographics of the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States)**
>
> English was made the official language of the United States by Executive Order 14224 in 2025. However, Congress has never passed a bill to designate English as the official language of all three federal branches. English is designated official in 32 of 50 states (and in all five U.S. territories). Hawaiian is official in Hawaii, 20 Native languages are official in Alaska, and Sioux is official in South Dakota. Samoan is an official language in American Samoa, Chamorro is an offici The United S...
US government employees, 2000-2010 (State and Local only, excluding contractors): 9.9% increase.
[http://www.census.gov//govs/apes/](http://www.census.gov//govs/apes/)
US government employees, 2000-2010 (All levels, excluding contractors): 23% increase.
State and Local spending, including contractors 2000-2010: 112% increase.
Feel free to keep denying facts and moving the goalposts for someone else. I’m done with you.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/66 "2012-04-17T22:35:37Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#):
>
> That’s going to run through my head every time I see or hear any mention of Romney now, and I will laugh, and people will look at me funny. Well, funnier.
People don’t look at me funny. Or much at all, if they can help it.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [April 17, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/67 "2012-04-17T23:18:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#):
>
> **Shodan’s Typing:** sHit-c0Ck! SAUL ALINSKI!!!11
I think you left out something. 😉
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### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2012, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/68 "2012-04-18T11:26:18Z")
> [@Mighty\_Girl](#):
>
> Canada might want to take notice (out of a 10M population in the Dominican Rep. 2 million are Haitian immigrants). 😉
So many also die trying to get to the US by small boats,very sad situation!
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### Author:  [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2012, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/69 "2012-04-18T11:30:15Z")
> [@shiftless](#):
>
> “Start packing” would have been a great line if he had used it at the right time, maybe when he had a small lead in some poll. As it is, the line sounded, to me, flat and out of context. Even when he is trying to talk smack, Romney manages to make it sound like he’s reading a script. He may be able, using his business experience, to get the economy straight but he will never inspire me.
If Romney should win, I think it will be very difficult to get the economy going, it takes more than a president’s intentions to get anything passed and that is up to congress. He can’t fire the Reps. that disagree with him, like he can in business.
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### Author:  [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2012, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/70 "2012-04-18T20:44:32Z")
> [@furt](#):
>
> US population, 2000-2010: 9.7% increase.
> [Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States)
>
> US government employees, 2000-2010 (State and Local only, excluding contractors): 9.9% increase.
> [http://www.census.gov//govs/apes/](http://www.census.gov//govs/apes/)
>
> US government employees, 2000-2010 (All levels, excluding contractors): 23% increase.
Um, I think you and **mister\_nyx** may be talking about two different phenomena here. Your figures cover the entire decade 2000-2010, which included the massive post-9/11 spike in government payrolls as Homeland Security ramped up.
He, on the other hand, was talking about trends in state government employment **lately** , specifically with regard to the recent economic slump. So actually, it seems that you’re the one who started moving the goalposts here.
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### Author:  [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)
#### Post date: [April 18, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/71 "2012-04-18T21:43:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#):
>
> Um, I think you and **mister\_nyx** may be talking about two different phenomena here. Your figures cover the entire decade 2000-2010, which included the massive post-9/11 spike in government payrolls as Homeland Security ramped up.
>
> He, on the other hand, was talking about trends in state government employment **lately** , specifically with regard to the recent economic slump. So actually, it seems that you’re the one who started moving the goalposts here.
Dude, go back and read all the posts, not just the last one. He said that it wasn’t true that there were fewer government workers, so I showed that had risen steadily for decades. Then he said “Spending has been falling enormously at the state level in most states lately,” so I showed it hasn’t. _Then_ he said it was because of the economic downturn.
Government spending, at all levels, rises every single year. It does not go down, ever, except in certain states/localities for very short periods. It is not a function of any short-term trend; it rose in the 80s, in the 90s, last year, and it will rise next year. The number of people employed by the government, whether directly or as contractors, has risen with it. Many think that’s a _good_ thing, but whether it is or not is another issue.
That it rises, and employment along with it, is the fact relevant to where the discussion began. Insisting that what he really meant was something else was just a way to avoid dealing with facts that ran counter to his assumptions.
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### Author:  [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2012, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/72 "2012-04-20T20:07:42Z")
> [@mister\_nyx](#):
>
> He won’t be. “Business experience” doesn’t translate into any understanding of macroeconomics. They’re entirely different. I’m sure there are people who are skilled at both, but Romney’s “business experience” has as much to do with knowing how to fix a national economy as Ron Paul’s optometry experience.
>
> And even assuming he understands basic economics properly, and that’s a big if in a Republican (and one who, so far, hasn’t proposed anything that will actually help propel economic growth), he’ll still be shackled by a party that insists, in the face of all evidence, that the only way to fix the economy is to do things that we know will tank it. Remember, it’s the same GOP that had members last year saying that defaulting on our debt payments for no good reason was a positive step in fixing the economy.
His business experience is taken out of context too, IMHO. Let’s take STAPLES, for example. As I understand it, Romney’s experience with the company was as an investor in it for Bain Capital and as later a member of - but not the sole member of - the company’s board of directors, not as the actual operator of the company. I’m not downplaying that as an accomplishment, but it doesn’t speak to me as a quality that translates into being US President.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2012, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/73 "2012-04-20T20:20:51Z")
[Aside]
I’ve noticed lately the phrase “vulture capitalist” applied to Romney. Irrespective of its applicability, I am curious whence comes that phrase, I don’t recall having heard it before.
Anyone?
[/aside]
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### Author:  [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/74 "2012-04-20T21:08:23Z")
Rick Perry called him that at a Republican debate I think.
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### Author:  [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)
#### Post date: [April 20, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/start-packing-so-gov-romney-should-we-even-bother-with-the-election/619000/75 "2012-04-20T21:33:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#):
>
> [Aside]
> I’ve noticed lately the phrase “vulture capitalist” applied to Romney. Irrespective of its applicability, I am curious whence comes that phrase, I don’t recall having heard it before.
>
> Anyone?
>
> [/aside]
It started out as hacker slang, and was defined in the [Jargon File](http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/online-preface.html) a long, long time ago. Eric doesn’t have dates available, but [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) [says it appeared in the dictionary in 1995](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/vulture+capitalist).
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