# Startrek Survey. A Question of Wesley. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 10, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911 "2007-11-10T15:03:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/61 "2007-11-11T04:45:24Z")
Didn’t hate him. I was disappointed. The “Mozart of Hyperspace Travel” and he hadn’t designed a single space craft by the time he was a teenager? Please. Stupid writing. Male Yeah. Tris ---
**Author:** ![pinkfreud](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pinkfreud/32/17603_2.png) [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/62 "2007-11-11T04:50:43Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] An excellent point, but I propose “Ship’s Boy” for Wes, especially where his pal the Traveler is concerned. See above post. 🙂 [/QUOTE] This reminds me of the [SNL skit](http://snltranscripts.jt.org/78/78rcowperthwaite.phtml) in which John Belushi, as the captain of a sailing ship called the “Raging Queen,” has to “comfort” the cabin boy. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/63 "2007-11-11T04:56:07Z")
[QUOTE=pinkfreud] the captain of a sailing ship called the “Raging Queen,” has to “comfort” the cabin boy. [/QUOTE] Daffy Duck already did that. Damned odd, if you ask me. ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/64 "2007-11-11T11:18:10Z")
No, sorry, **Terrifel** , I genuinely didn’t mind Wesley. In fact I quite enjoyed a few of the W-centric episodes (“The Game” and “First Duty” in particular; of course, they were after he left for the Academy). And Deanna and Riker are two of my favorite characters, so screw all y’all haters. In fact I don’t think there’s a TNG main character I didn’t like, except maybe Tasha Yar, but again I didn’t see her that much so perhaps that’s not a fair assessment. Even Pulaski, once she lost her anti-Data bigotry, had her charms. Really, TNG had a remarkable number of likeable cast members. Everyone could be irritating now and then – except Picard, who’s awesome in every way! – but in general they were an amiable crew. ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/65 "2007-11-11T13:46:49Z")
Thank you everyone for that big load of data on the subject. It seems that people generally fit my theory, but like all theories on human behavior there’s too much variation to be certain! _There’s nought so queer as folk_ I have got to wonder if anyone has anything concrete to offer against Wesley. Aside from the Traveler taking him away to be some sort of intra-dimensional NAMBLA poster boy. Too many episodes around Wesley? By my count he was on the crew for 86 out of 178 episodes including the three he came back for. I found Nine episodes that had Wesley centered plot lines, even including “Coming of Age” which was as much about an investigation of the crew as Wesley. Hardly a huge number, and certainly a lot less than the other characters. Saved the ship too much? Really? Most of the time he just piloted the ship. I’m compelled to ask for Cite on that one. Shouldn’t have been on the Bridge? Unrealistic? Points to remember: The first time Picard let Wesley on the bridge was just after being reunited with the boys mother. A woman Picard still thought he was in love with and who was also the wife of his dead best friend. A friend he got killed. Picard was yelling at Wesley until he found out he was Beverly’s son. Even then he didn’t recruit Welsey into the crew until pushed to do so by the traveler. Also given that Picard is apparently on first name terms with half of the Admirals in Starfleet, I think he gets a little freedom in how he runs his ship. Also in “The Naked Now” it was Data who saved the ship after Wesley almost got it destroyed. And do you really think Wesley’s sweater was any more laughable than Riker’s Girdle? ---
**Author:** ![dead0man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@dead0man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dead0man)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/66 "2007-11-11T15:16:47Z")
no male meh/yes ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/67 "2007-11-11T16:20:36Z")
I just don’t like kids on TV shows. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/68 "2007-11-11T18:05:14Z")
1. No. Although I found him irritating in the first season (and perfectly fine in later seasons). 2. Male 3. Yes ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/69 "2007-11-11T18:06:31Z")
Message-button I once saw at an SF con: “Will Ensign Wesley Crusher please report to the airlock.” ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/70 "2007-11-11T20:01:59Z")
[QUOTE=essell] Thank you everyone for that big load of data on the subject. It seems that people generally fit my theory, but like all theories on human behavior there’s too much variation to be certain! _There’s nought so queer as folk_ I have got to wonder if anyone has anything concrete to offer against Wesley. Aside from the Traveler taking him away to be some sort of intra-dimensional NAMBLA poster boy. Too many episodes around Wesley? By my count he was on the crew for 86 out of 178 episodes including the three he came back for. I found Nine episodes that had Wesley centered plot lines, even including “Coming of Age” which was as much about an investigation of the crew as Wesley. Hardly a huge number, and certainly a lot less than the other characters. Saved the ship too much? Really? Most of the time he just piloted the ship. I’m compelled to ask for Cite on that one. Shouldn’t have been on the Bridge? Unrealistic? Points to remember: The first time Picard let Wesley on the bridge was just after being reunited with the boys mother. A woman Picard still thought he was in love with and who was also the wife of his dead best friend. A friend he got killed. Picard was yelling at Wesley until he found out he was Beverly’s son. Even then he didn’t recruit Welsey into the crew until pushed to do so by the traveler. Also given that Picard is apparently on first name terms with half of the Admirals in Starfleet, I think he gets a little freedom in how he runs his ship. Also in “The Naked Now” it was Data who saved the ship after Wesley almost got it destroyed. And do you really think Wesley’s sweater was any more laughable than Riker’s Girdle? [/QUOTE] There was a cluster of shows that featured Will, and his saving the ship or playing a key role. I really hated the ‘travler’ and Wesley is special. I hate the idea of using ‘special powers’ in Trek. Sure, Spock is much more intelligent than his human counterparts, I don’t like the ‘vulcan nerve pinch, or the Vulcans are super strong’ fortunately they didn’t use those very much. The people in Trek are supposed to be people, and not have mystical superpowers. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/71 "2007-11-11T21:01:48Z")
[QUOTE=essell] … Also in “The Naked Now” it was Data who saved the ship after Wesley almost got it destroyed. … [/QUOTE] Well, Wesley was the one who realized Data could save the ship and he’s the one who bought Data an extra minute with his science project. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/72 "2007-11-11T22:22:47Z")
[QUOTE=essell] I have got to wonder if anyone has anything concrete to offer against Wesley. Aside from the Traveler taking him away to be some sort of intra-dimensional NAMBLA poster boy. Too many episodes around Wesley? By my count he was on the crew for 86 out of 178 episodes including the three he came back for. I found Nine episodes that had Wesley centered plot lines, even including “Coming of Age” which was as much about an investigation of the crew as Wesley. Hardly a huge number, and certainly a lot less than the other characters. Saved the ship too much? Really? Most of the time he just piloted the ship. I’m compelled to ask for Cite on that one. Shouldn’t have been on the Bridge? Unrealistic? Points to remember: The first time Picard let Wesley on the bridge was just after being reunited with the boys mother. A woman Picard still thought he was in love with and who was also the wife of his dead best friend. A friend he got killed. Picard was yelling at Wesley until he found out he was Beverly’s son. Even then he didn’t recruit Welsey into the crew until pushed to do so by the traveler. Also given that Picard is apparently on first name terms with half of the Admirals in Starfleet, I think he gets a little freedom in how he runs his ship. Also in “The Naked Now” it was Data who saved the ship after Wesley almost got it destroyed. And do you really think Wesley’s sweater was any more laughable than Riker’s Girdle? [/QUOTE] Er… you do realize that you’re arguing against your own theory now? If Wesley wasn’t featured as much as the other characters, and didn’t have a tradition of saving the ship or being generally script-intrusive, and his presence on the bridge was entirely plausible and unremarkable… then in what way does he represent the “successful intelligent character” that you theorize people resent him for? How is he any more a “success” than anyone else on the ship? Why don’t people resent Geordi instead, or Data? Practically everyone on the ship embodies the traditional concept of “success” more than Wesley. They have all been chosen to serve on the flagship of the Federation, whereas Wesley ends up there more or less by accident. They all continue to progress in their chosen careers, whereas Wesley does not. Indeed, Wesley manages to humiliate himself at the Academy and ultimately abandons Starfleet for life as an aimless drifter, though no doubt he somehow contrives to show up whenever there’s a buffet or when he needs to borrow money. He’s the \*\*Star Trek \*\* equivalent of a college dropout. Wesley was never a “success,” unless you consider being transcendentally annoying a “success.” ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/73 "2007-11-11T22:53:31Z")
1. No. He was irritating at times, but then, so was Neelix (but in a much worse and smarmier way). 2. Female 3. Moderately ---
**Author:** ![essell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/34f0e0/32.png) [@essell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/essell)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/74 "2007-11-12T00:26:16Z")
[QUOTE=Terrifel] Er… you do realize that you’re arguing against your own theory now? [/QUOTE] Am I? Well the sign of a good scientist is one who’s willing to change his theory to fit new information. Given the general trend of answers i think I’m on to _something_ but it remains to be seen how well the pattern holds, and if I’m right about the causes. I don’t think people resent Wesley. That’s not the right word for it. It’s more instinctive it seems. I was first alerted to the problem when I noticed all the reasons people give for hating him were a bit baseless. To quote Picard “Nothing substantive offered against him, much less proven”. I don’t think people really know _why_ they hate Wesley, with some possible exceptions. Anyway, big reasons why this only crops up with Wesley and not Spock / Picard / Geordi. 1. Age. Successful people can be mentors, students or peers. There’s nothing better than watching ones own students excel. And Mentors are great. They use their strength and make it yours. However Peers are only there to be chaffed against in competition. Even find yourself irrationally trying to “one up” a sibling? Almost always it’s when they’re the same **age** as you. I think people compare the child Wesley with their own childhood 2. Work. As I said before, Wesley was successful just by being smart. Although we saw him working hard at times it was only school work. When he was working on the ship or with the crew he was always having the time of his life. I never recall Wesley getting stressed out when working on the ship like Geordi did. 3.History. Although the other characters were smart they had spent years learning and working. We were often told about the commendations Riker had earned, or the planets Picard had saved. Success that’s earned is not annoying, it’s respected. 4.Consequences. They were under pressure. They had real consequences for failing. Wesley could succeed or fail and you knew no one would hold it against him. He was just a boy. Note that none of these are bad points about Wesley. He _was_ just a boy. My theory for the moment comes down to this: I think people see in Welsey their own wasted potential. He’s a reminder of an uncomfortable truth. Maybe some of the people who don’t like him, to whatever degree, have good dramatic reasons. Maybe I’m reading too much into people. Given the variation of people I’m sure my theory would never apply to everyone anyway. But the results I was expecting was one yes and one no for males and no correlation among females. Apologies if this sounds sexist, but I had a feeling we were dealing with instinctive reactions so gender would skew the results. I had no idea Wesley was considered attractive by so many girls though! Anyway, [This](http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/essellburns/wesley.jpg) is the data collected so far, from this site and my personal forums. So for now, the data seems to support my theory. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/75 "2007-11-12T01:16:22Z")
> [@](#): > > What I hated then and hate today is Troi. HATE. HER. My god I wish Deanna would shut up. I cheered when the captain temping for Picard told her to put on a damn uniform. She needed to be knocked down several pegs. Arrogant mind-readin’ bitch. Put her together with Riker and I leave the room. Give me Picard and Crusher any day. Chiming in to say I also despise Troi. I despise that helpless, pained look she always gets on her face, the pseudo-psychobabble she espouses, her weak-ass command skills, and in that episode where she lost all her special powers I wanted to drop-kick her for being such an immature, sanctimonious bitch. To me, she exudes weakness and incompetence. This is far more annoying than Wesley. Wesley saved the day at least as much as he f\*d it up, and he could be forgiven because he was just a kid. But Troi was supposed to be a professional. Oh god and don’t even get me started on that ep where she put in for a command promotion… ‘‘I can’t do it! It’s too hard!’’ Every time I watch her on screen I feel like she’s putting the women’s movement back 50 years. ‘‘I’m beautiful and overwhelmed!’’ F\*ing pansy. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/76 "2007-11-12T01:46:06Z")
Well, any girl who was geeky enough to be watching TNG (and I am so totally including myself there) would probably find geeky guys appealing, I think. And Og knows Wil is a geek. I’d snap him up now, except that he’s married and he also looks a little too much like my little brother (who is 23 and available, ladies! _g_) for me to be entirely comfortable with the idea. I too would love to kick Troi’s ass in the ep where she loses her useless anyway abilities. Look, bitch, some of us are disabled _every freakin’ day of our lives_. Suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/77 "2007-11-12T02:02:42Z")
Troi was particularly annoying to me as I was training to be a psychotherapist. Star Fleet standards must have been really low, and the psychology of the future pretty damn retro. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/78 "2007-11-12T02:02:43Z")
[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th] Chiming in to say I also despise Troi. I despise that helpless, pained look she always gets on her face, the pseudo-psychobabble she espouses, her weak-ass command skills, and in that episode where she lost all her special powers I wanted to drop-kick her for being such an immature, sanctimonious bitch. To me, she exudes weakness and incompetence. This is far more annoying than Wesley. Wesley saved the day at least as much as he f\*d it up, and he could be forgiven because he was just a kid. But Troi was supposed to be a professional. Oh god and don’t even get me started on that ep where she put in for a command promotion… ‘‘I can’t do it! It’s too hard!’’ Every time I watch her on screen I feel like she’s putting the women’s movement back 50 years. ‘‘I’m beautiful and overwhelmed!’’ F\*ing pansy. [/QUOTE] How about the episode where she was the commanding officer on the bridge after everyone else got locked out? “How do I lead? What do I do? How does my jumpsuit look?” The lower-ranking officers had to talk her through everything. How did she get to be an officer with no leadership skills? Maybe she had them but lost them in the haze of Aqua-Net. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/79 "2007-11-12T02:16:33Z")
Though Kira owns my heart now (in the Trek universe, anyway), Troi was my first Trek crush so knock it off. This thread’s for hating on Wes, damn it. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911/80 "2007-11-12T02:21:16Z")
[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th] Chiming in to say I also despise Troi. I despise that helpless, pained look she always gets on her face, the pseudo-psychobabble she espouses, her weak-ass command skills, and in that episode where she lost all her special powers I wanted to drop-kick her for being such an immature, sanctimonious bitch. To me, she exudes weakness and incompetence. This is far more annoying than Wesley. Wesley saved the day at least as much as he f\*d it up, and he could be forgiven because he was just a kid. But Troi was supposed to be a professional. Oh god and don’t even get me started on that ep where she put in for a command promotion… ‘‘I can’t do it! It’s too hard!’’ Every time I watch her on screen I feel like she’s putting the women’s movement back 50 years. ‘‘I’m beautiful and overwhelmed!’’ F\*ing pansy. [/QUOTE] Wow. This is perfect. This is what I’ve been trying to say for years, but could never quite articulate. She is so useless in every way! Even her “special powers” are super fucking lame. “I sense hostility, Captain.” Well no shit! I can’t fairly answer the OP’s question, since I hate _everybody_ on TNG, except Data most of the time, and Picard every once in awhile. I only ever watch it because my husband is a huge fan of the show. It’s frustrating because I love the original series, and I love Patrick Stewart, and I’m even pretty fond of Wil Wheaton. I just find the entire cast completely unlikable in every way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-survey-a-question-of-wesley/425911.md?page=5)