# Startrek TOS: More Time in Rank, Uhura or Sulu? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284 "2009-06-10T01:20:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/1 "2009-06-10T01:20:05Z")
Capt Kirk, Cmdr Spock, Lt Cmdr McCoy, and Lt Cmdr Scott are all on an away mission. All that’s left are a couple of lieutenants. Who’s in charge? ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/2 "2009-06-10T01:33:29Z")
Coming from the original set of films, Uhura is a Lt. Cmdr herself now. Sulu is a Captain. So you have to decide _when_ you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/3 "2009-06-10T01:35:57Z")
That’s why I specified TOS. Made no mention of the movies. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/4 "2009-06-10T01:53:21Z")
Easy enough - Sulu was in Gold - signifying Command staff - while Uhura was in Red, Signifying support staff. Several times Sulu was left in command, while Uhura never was. (this may have been a product of the times and sexism/racism, its all we got to go on at this point.) ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/5 "2009-06-10T01:56:41Z")
Thanks. I suspected there were such times, but couldn’t recall them. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/6 "2009-06-10T02:03:17Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Uhura was in Red, Signifying support staff. Which explains why she always balked at being part of the landing party. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/7 "2009-06-10T02:13:28Z")
Was McCoy ever left in charge? I’ve been watching through all the old episodes, been through about half of them so far, and haven’t seen it yet. > [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Which explains why she always balked at being part of the landing party. Except Scotty wore red and he landed or was left in charge of the ship a number of times. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/8 "2009-06-10T02:23:36Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Was McCoy ever left in charge? McCoy would never in a million years be left in command. A wet-behind-the-ears ensign would sit in the Captain’s chair before Bones. Doctors aren’t in the chain of command in any way (TOS). ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/9 "2009-06-10T02:48:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > McCoy would never in a million years be left in command. A wet-behind-the-ears ensign would sit in the Captain’s chair before Bones. Doctors aren’t in the chain of command in any way (TOS). Ah that’s what I thought, but the OP makes a point of mentioning him as a Lt Cmdr so I was curious. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/10 "2009-06-10T02:54:55Z")
Er, Yeah! 😃 I don’t know how naval command structures work. Bones outranks Sulu, but does Sulu’s status as part of the bridge staff trump McCoy’s rank? ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/11 "2009-06-10T03:14:16Z")
In the real world, if you’re a doctor when you join, they send you to a class on what the Academy was like. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/12 "2009-06-10T03:15:49Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Was McCoy ever left in charge? Once, sort-of. Spock has hijacked the _Enterprise_, leaving Kirk behind on a space station (“The Menagerie”) and then surrenders himself to arrest. As McCoy is the ranking officer, it falls to him (befuddlement notwithstanding) to accept the surrender and confine Spock to his quarters. There was an occasion when Kirk and Spock were away and Scott and Sulu were chatting on the intercom. Sulu invited Scott to come to the bridge and assume command but Scott deferred, reasoning he was more useful in Engineering. Which episode this was escapes me. [Lieutenant DeSalle](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/DeSalle) was in command in “Catspaw”, evidently putting him ahead of Uhura in the chain o’ command. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/13 "2009-06-10T03:20:45Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Er, Yeah! 😃 > > I don’t know how naval command structures work. Bones outranks Sulu, but does Sulu’s status as part of the bridge staff trump McCoy’s rank? It would depend on the question under discussion. Just as Kirk can’t tell McCoy how to treat a patient, so McCoy can’t tell Sulu how to fly a starship. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/14 "2009-06-10T03:25:02Z")
I suppose I’m asking how current naval protocol would operate. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/15 "2009-06-10T03:53:18Z")
Medical branch is not part of the operational/tactical chain of command in real Navy vessels. The Doc runs the sickbay, the line officers run the ship and the battle. If the doc is the senior-in-grade officer left alive the others will give him his proper respect and deference but he is still not qualified to command and operate the vessel. > [@simster](#): > > Easy enough - Sulu was in Gold - signifying Command staff - while Uhura was in Red, Signifying support staff. Although she _started_ in gold, too (and Sulu was originally head of botany!). IIIRC from either Roddenberry’s or Gerrold’s book, Uhura was originally set in the writer’s guide to be fourth in command, but that was never followed up on. We can be consoled she was still intended to be senior-in-grade though she stopped being senior by billet. However we never really saw an actual total decapitation of command, save for The Deadly Years, where there was an interloping flag officer to declare himself in charge. Under normal landing-party circumstances, it would be a matter for the Captain to just turn (or get on the intercom) to whichever senior officer he is NOT putting in harm’s way, or to whoever’s serving as Officer Of The Deck for that watch, and tell him “you have the bridge until we get back”. It being understood that if the landing party bites it, THEN Mr. I-have-the-bridge looks up what is left of the C-O-C so they can move to fill the vacancies beyond this watch. Of course, we can with **simster** speculate if someone said, _“Hold it, we have someone (a) black AND (b) female be one of the senior officers. We’re going to show her in charge, too?”_:o;) The officers who are in the actual ship HQ staff as Executive/First Officer, Operations/2nd Officer and such could be attached to branches other than “command”, as seen when Spock wears science blue and Scotty tech red. In TOS, though, the CMO was NOT a line officer (something that seems altered in the reset continuity) and he had authority to remove anyone from duty if he judged them impaired but could not take over himself (ethical conflict of interest considerations). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/16 "2009-06-10T04:22:51Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Medical branch is not part of the operational/tactical chain of command in real Navy vessels. The Doc runs the sickbay, the line officers run the ship and the battle. If the doc is the senior-in-grade officer left alive the others will give him his proper respect and deference but he is still not qualified to command and operate the vessel. > > Although she _started_ in gold, too (and Sulu was originally head of botany!). IIIRC from either Roddenberry’s or Gerrold’s book, Uhura was originally set in the writer’s guide to be fourth in command, but that was never followed up on. We can be consoled she was still intended to be senior-in-grade though she stopped being senior by billet. THAT’S what I was looking for! ETA: As long as my brother, sometime Officer of the Day, was never ACTUALLY in charge of an aircraft carrier, I’m happy. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![cerberus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@cerberus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cerberus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/17 "2009-06-10T04:54:42Z")
It’s still about the billet - communications officers aren’t in the command line. The closest USN analog to the TOS command division are supervisory line officers. LCDR Scott, no. In fact, it isn’t at all unusual for the engineers to be Limited Duty Officers, who, like the Medical Officers, do not command outside of their specializations. There were plenty of non-command bridge officers who never commanded - white, black, green, other. The big demotion in TOS was the promotion of Spock to XO, and the redaction of Barrett’s Number One - can’t have a woman as XO. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/18 "2009-06-10T06:00:14Z")
> [@cerberus](#): > > It’s still about the billet - communications officers aren’t in the command line. The closest USN analog to the TOS command division are supervisory line officers. LCDR Scott, no. In fact, it isn’t at all unusual for the engineers to be Limited Duty Officers, who, like the Medical Officers, do not command outside of their specializations. Scott is clearly third in command, but not of command rank, since he didn’t qualify to be part of Spock’s court martial in Menagerie. While Uhura was communications, there was a lot of cross training, since in one episode she took over navigation, at least for a while. Sulu was in command during the space battle in Errand of Mercy - why Scott wasn’t, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/19 "2009-06-10T11:05:23Z")
In TNG, Dr. Crusher was said to have taken command training, and she did command the ship sometimes. Presumably someone else was running sickbay then. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/20 "2009-06-10T11:45:30Z")
Yeah, there was some discussion concerning Crusher having taken the course and passed the test that Troi was struggling with. At least in TNG one couldn’t have the command chair without passing these examinations. But once you’ve done so you can pull watches in command. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284.md?page=2)