# Startrek TOS: More Time in Rank, Uhura or Sulu? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 10, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284 "2009-06-10T01:20:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/101 "2009-06-13T20:39:58Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > B) Hot female crew get killed too. It’s in “By Any Other Name” isn’t it that an angsty hot female crew member got crushed, leaving the black red shirt of all people to survive. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/102 "2009-06-13T20:41:04Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Easy enough - Sulu was in Gold - signifying Command staff - while Uhura was in Red, Signifying support staff. > > Several times Sulu was left in command, while Uhura never was. > > (this may have been a product of the times and sexism/racism, its all we got to go on at this point.) What does blue signify? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/103 "2009-06-13T20:54:46Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What does blue signify? Blue is Sciences & Medicine. I’ve always thought that Medicine should have a separate color, as McCoy did not answer to Spock in the latter’s Chief Science Officer guise. But what I wrote above–about the various doctors and nurses having to do double-duty in the biology department, so that there would be enough medical staff on hand in the event of an emergency but they’d not be idle most of the time–would explain it. And it’s canon that Chapel had a doctorate in biochemistry, which I would think lends support to my otherwise-baseless hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/104 "2009-06-14T01:24:59Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Lt Kevin Riley survived that one, though. Oh yeah, Riley, too. But it’s safe to assume he was a permanent Lieutenant (junior grade), if only for his singing. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/105 "2009-06-14T01:55:43Z")
No Dance Tonight.:mad:😉 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/106 "2009-06-14T14:21:02Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Oh yeah, Riley, too. But it’s safe to assume he was a permanent Lieutenant (junior grade), if only for his singing. One More TIME! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/107 "2009-06-14T16:03:18Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Blue is Sciences & Medicine. > > I’ve always thought that Medicine should have a separate color, as McCoy did not answer to Spock in the latter’s Chief Science Officer guise. But what I wrote above–about the various doctors and nurses having to do double-duty in the biology department, so that there would be enough medical staff on hand in the event of an emergency but they’d not be idle most of the time–would explain it. . And his uniform was made out of a different material and in a different style, so there is that… Am re-rewatching Wrath of Khan tonight. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/108 "2009-06-14T16:09:49Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > And his uniform was made out of a different material and in a different style, so there is that… McCoy wore two distinct uniforms: one was the standard blue long sleeve job, the other was a short sleeved, satiny “working” uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/109 "2009-06-14T16:39:31Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > a short sleeved, satiny “working” uniform. Satiny seemed to equate to medicine in TOS and (IIRC) some bits of TNG. Even sticking plasters had to be made of that spangly looking stuff. Perhaps they were getting in on the antiseptic qualities of silver 😉 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/110 "2009-06-15T02:17:52Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > McCoy wore two distinct uniforms: one was the standard blue long sleeve job, the other was a short sleeved, satiny “working” uniform. Yes, I know. I was referring to his shiny, short sleeved one. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/111 "2009-06-15T02:46:09Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Yes, I know. I was referring to his shiny, short sleeved one. Yes, but your statement acted as if McCoy’s uniform was always distinct. For all we know, Spock has a similar working uniform when he’s in the lab working with icky stuff. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/112 "2009-06-15T14:29:25Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Yes, but your statement acted as if McCoy’s uniform was always distinct. For all we know, Spock has a similar working uniform when he’s in the lab working with icky stuff. 😃 We’ve seen Spock in the lab–in “The Deadly Years”–and he was wearing his usual. And I shuold think long-sleeved shirts would be more likely than short-sleeved ones for the chem lab. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/113 "2009-06-15T14:38:29Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > Satiny seemed to equate to medicine in TOS and (IIRC) some bits of TNG. Even sticking plasters had to be made of that spangly looking stuff. Perhaps they were getting in on the antiseptic qualities of silver 😉 Transparent aluminum, perhaps? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/114 "2009-06-15T14:42:53Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > We’ve seen Spock in the lab–in “The Deadly Years”–and he was wearing his usual… Likewise in “The Trouble With Tribbles.” ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/115 "2009-06-15T15:14:43Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Yes, but your statement acted as if McCoy’s uniform was always distinct. For all we know, Spock has a similar working uniform when he’s in the lab working with icky stuff. 😃 :rolleyes: Here, let me transport you off this ship and onto a hostile planet… It seems to me that while I know Kirk best in his yellow, black collar shirt, he seemed to spend a great deal of time in that weird green V neck number. Thioughts? And the uniforms for Star Trek the first movie, sucked. They look like dental hygienists. I just watched ST 4 last night. Whale of a movie. \ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/116 "2009-06-15T15:45:10Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > …It seems to me that while I know Kirk best in his yellow, black collar shirt, he seemed to spend a great deal of time in that weird green V neck number. Thioughts? And the uniforms for Star Trek the first movie, sucked. They look like dental hygienists… The usual fanwank about Kirk’s green V-neck uniform ([http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/17/Kirk\_Bashir\_and\_Obrien.jpg/300px-Kirk\_Bashir\_and\_Obrien.jpg](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/17/Kirk_Bashir_and_Obrien.jpg/300px-Kirk_Bashir_and_Obrien.jpg)) was that, as captain, he had the discretion to choose a uniform style for himself, so long as the Starfleet arrowhead and his rank insignia were shown. Picard did something similar in ST:TNG ([http://www.treksinscifi.com/trekdaily/pictures/2008-03-06-Darmok.jpg](http://www.treksinscifi.com/trekdaily/pictures/2008-03-06-Darmok.jpg)). And I kinda liked the ST:TMP uniforms ([http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1019861/photo\_08\_hires.jpg](http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1019861/photo_08_hires.jpg))… but I agree the ones just after that (in ST:TWOK and after that, [http://www.blam1.com/startrek/images/FilmCast.jpg](http://www.blam1.com/startrek/images/FilmCast.jpg)) were better. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/117 "2009-06-15T17:03:50Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The usual fanwank about Kirk’s green V-neck uniform ([http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/17/Kirk\_Bashir\_and\_Obrien.jpg/300px-Kirk\_Bashir\_and\_Obrien.jpg](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/17/Kirk_Bashir_and_Obrien.jpg/300px-Kirk_Bashir_and_Obrien.jpg)) was that, as captain, he had the discretion to choose a uniform style for himself, so long as the Starfleet arrowhead and his rank insignia were shown. It should be noted that in the TOS era, the familiar arrowhead was not the [Starfleet insignia](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_insignia), but the Enterprise [assignment patch](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Assignment_patch). At some point between TOS and the movies, they changed the Starfleet insignia to the Enterprise insignia, and got rid of assignment patches. It’s not entirely clear what the purpose of the wraparound uniform is, but Memory Alpha’s [page on the TOS-era uniforms](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Starfleet_uniform_(2265-2270s)) suggests it was a standard variant - which itself had several variants. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/118 "2009-06-15T17:18:37Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > :rolleyes: Here, let me transport you off this ship and onto a hostile planet… > > It seems to me that while I know Kirk best in his yellow, black collar shirt, he seemed to spend a great deal of time in that weird green V neck number. It was a wraparound. That’s why it was so weird. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284/119 "2009-06-15T19:31:16Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The usual fanwank about Kirk’s green V-neck uniform ([http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/17/Kirk\_Bashir\_and\_Obrien.jpg/300px-Kirk\_Bashir\_and\_Obrien.jpg](http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/thumb/1/17/Kirk_Bashir_and_Obrien.jpg/300px-Kirk_Bashir_and_Obrien.jpg)) was that, as captain, he had the discretion to choose a uniform style for himself, so long as the Starfleet arrowhead and his rank insignia were shown. Picard did something similar in ST:TNG ([http://www.treksinscifi.com/trekdaily/pictures/2008-03-06-Darmok.jpg](http://www.treksinscifi.com/trekdaily/pictures/2008-03-06-Darmok.jpg)). > > And I kinda liked the ST:TMP uniforms ([http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1019861/photo\_08\_hires.jpg](http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1019861/photo_08_hires.jpg))… but I agree the ones just after that (in ST:TWOK and after that, [http://www.blam1.com/startrek/images/FilmCast.jpg](http://www.blam1.com/startrek/images/FilmCast.jpg)) were better. I liked the idea of the wraparound if not the exectuion, and Picard’s jacket ensemble as well. The captain shouldn’t dress exactly like the crew. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/startrek-tos-more-time-in-rank-uhura-or-sulu/499284.md?page=5)